Let's talk about this stupid immigration issue

nontheist

nontheist

Well-Known Member
So your answer is an open border?

Also lets talk about the real numbers of past immigration and their effect but first is that your stance?
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
canndo said:
No one really is serious about immigration, even when they say they are. I have run numbers that indicate that even allowing for the taxes that illegals pay, the contribution to the national work force and their being consumers - we would be better served to actually round up all illegals and deport them. The cost is NOT prohibitive. Now remember that I am a liberal and being such am not as against expansion of government or the expenditure of government collected taxation so the concept of going out and picking up every illegal in the country is not as abhorrent to me as it would be to a conservative..

What is being missed due to short memories and lazy legislators is that we tried this amnesty thing before and the result was an even larger influx of illegals this go round. Amnesty in any form does not work. What it is, is a statute of limitations rule that encourages more of the same. "listen Quac, if you manage to get to this country and stay here long enough, eventually the government will give you a pass".

A true fence and well guarded southern border is a great start. Next would be a real streamlining of immigration and naturalization rules that would actually give folks of little means a chance at getting into this country legitimately and in a short amount of time. I read recently that it could take as long as 28 years to become a U.S. citizen if one has no contacts or "friends" in the country.

But I am aware that most illegals aren't illegal because the legal system is too cumbersome, they never even attempted to do things the legal way. They simply don't see the point in going that route when they don't have to.

Which brings me to the real argument. Why are we punishing people who for the most part simply want to make a better life for themselves? Why aren't we going after the source of the problem - the companies that hire illegals.

I recall once, years ago, just before the last amnesty move, seeing a line. I was consulting for a carpet company, a large one. I saw a line of thirty or forty latinos waiting to get to a truck and on the flatbed of this truck were several people giving something to each person in the line, one at a time. I asked what they were doing and was told not to ask, i asked anyway and discovered that these people were being paid every friday in cash for their work that week installing carpet.


It is the illegal's "fault" for being in this country, but he is only enabled to be here if he has a legitimate job. Serious sanctions placed upon employers would eliminate a number of problems. When illegals (those from the south) get to this country they manage to find low paying jobs - jobs that pay so poorly that they cannot afford to live in their own apartments but pack themselves into houses or apartments in multiple families.


There is a national child support database that enables states through the federal government to discover all new hires within a single fiscal quarter. If this database and system were used to keep illegals from being able to find employment it would quickly slow the flow of illegals and begin to reverse that flow.

Most companies are aware that they can skirt employment laws - employment services or "manpower" workers know full well that their people are illegal and they are not sanctioned when that is discovered.

Strict rules and harsh punishment for employers who hire illegals would go a long way. Better safeguards on falsified social security numbers would protect the companies that truely want to comply but are fooled by counterfit paper.

Finally, an international PR campaign would help greatly. I have seen the pamphlets passed out in Mexico on how to manage one's self when they are attempting to cross the border or after they have reached the United States. Some of those pamphlets are distributed by well meaning U.S. organizations but the point they make to the population is that illegal entry and habitation in the U.S. is not a big deal. If we have it appear to be a big deal, then it will become at least to some, a big deal.



So we have a fence, deportation of anyone caught breaking any other laws in the U.S., strong sanctions against employers of illegals, safeguards against counterfit social security numbers and a campaign informing potentials that they could be jailed before being deported (or something scary). I don't know what the constitutionality of holding an illegal until he finds the money to pay for his transit out of the country is but this might be worth looking into.


Any thoughts?
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As usual I completely disagree with just about everything you wrote. Where are these numbers that you ran?

I read this part like 3 times to make sure I was reading it right: "I have run numbers that indicate that even allowing for the taxes that illegals pay, the contribution to the national work force and their being consumers - we would be better served to actually round up all illegals and deport them"

I also had to stop and read this part three times: "I am a liberal"

I then kind of read parts about bussing people off and I started hearing that sorta charlie brown sound in my head, you know, waa waa waa waa waaa

So forgive me for not being able to follow this post entirely.

I mean to call yourself a liberal I think you have to have this underlying belief that consumers in fact grow the economy, you seem to lack that, does not compute. Then skimming over the rest just now I see you are talking about strict laws and harsh punishments, where does that get us? The reward for them is too great no matter the risk of punishment.

IDK , I honeslty don't have a problem with immigration even illegal kind. I don't feel its an issue and I think its more than likely a good thing then a bad thing. I think its unfair that they have it better than us but I am happy for them and they do help us more than hurt us.
 
nontheist

nontheist

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
number of Mexicans we let into this country has no affect on who for how many we letting of any other nationalities but you are too much of a racist retard to understand that
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Am I or am I just proving your statement that Mexicans are mistreated by our legal system is bullshit like everything you say?
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
The reason nothing has been done is because Energy, Healthcare, Insurance, Banking, and Ag all benefit from their presence.
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Serious sanctions placed upon employers would eliminate a number of problems. When illegals (those from the south) get to this country they manage to find low paying jobs - jobs that pay so poorly that they cannot afford to live in their own apartments but pack themselves into houses or apartments in multiple families.
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Serious Sanctions indeed. These Sanctions would have to be extremely severe to be effective. Until it costs companies substantially more for an illegal immigrant, there will always be a market for cash workers. Its the basic nature of business. In fact I suspect that even if the hourly wage of a cash off the books worker matched a regular payroll worker that business will still hire a substantial number of cash workers. Now if you fully criminalize hiring of illegal immigrants with strong jail term and exorbitant fines (enough to bankrupt the companies) then you might have something.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
nontheist said:
Really so we don't have a cap on on greedcards? Hmm news to me
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Not for europeans

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nitro harley

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Did they have visas? No
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I am not sure when visas were handed out......Maybe we should ask the indians if they want to look into the visa option........Why stop with the germans and Irish and italians lets dig just a little deeper, lets get the indians in there to...............We fought the mexicans awhile back for a reason.......nitro..
 
nitro harley

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Then your argument is
We shouldnt discriminate against those who came after us

Thanks
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You and me, we are not going be on the same page.....Lets get back to 2013.....I really don't have a problem with all mexican immigrants ......The ones I know personally work hard and they are my friends at a place where I do some of my business .......I along with others helped a cupple of those hard working mexicans to become citizens......It took a while but they earned it and it is behind them now.....We can't help them all but the ones that earn it get there in the end..................

What do you want to do?....do you want them to earn it or just make it a gift after others earned it?
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
nitro harley said:
You and me, we are not going be on the same page.....Lets get back to 2013.....I really don't have a problem with all mexican immigrants ......The ones I know personally work hard and they are my friends at a place where I do some of my business .......I along with others helped a cupple of those hard working mexicans to become citizens......It took a while but they earned it and it is behind them now.....We can't help them all but the ones that earn it get there in the end..................

What do you want to do?....do you want them to earn it or just make it a gift after others earned it?
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*I want the immigration system fixed. There should not be quotas. Those are racist by nature. Make it equal for everyone. This is the land of opportunity, If they cant make it they get shipped back. Those that are here work hard pay taxes and commit crimes at lower rates than the native born population. No one here can name a time in history where immigration has not benefitted the USA.
Except for the racists. They create their own set of facts
 
nitro harley

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
*I want the immigration system fixed. There should not be quotas. Those are racist by nature. Make it equal for everyone. This is the land of opportunity, If they cant make it they get shipped back. Those that are here work hard pay taxes and commit crimes at lower rates than the native born population. No one here can name a time in history where immigration has not benefitted the USA.
Except for the racists. They create their own set of facts
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Some towns and some countys and some states don't have enough money to do what you want to do.....The land of opportunity has changed....And where I live the court house hired a full time worker to translate spainish to service all the imigrants at the court house......You need to get your stats from a place where the problems are, because that is not true everywhere.....
 
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