Let's talk about this stupid immigration issue

[canndo]

If we switched to a tamper proof state issued ID card/drivers license and required employers to verify the SS# with a federal database + the ID card I don't see how they could mass produce enough fake id's and corresponding SS# to become an epidemic.

@canndo I know how it is, I used to work for a general contractor then got my own license and partnered with the head hispanic guy. I was the clean cut white guy who negotiated jobs while hector was in charge of labor. They worked harder than any white guys, by a long shot.

Why wouldn't I seek them out since I could rely on them to do the work faster and better than most people unless there was a penalty I would face for doing so? They worked 14+ hour days because I paid them well.

I have a close friend who has a guy who comes every few days to his house, he manecures the lawn, he paints, he plumbs, he helps with the horses, he manages the tomato patch and generaly cleans up after my friend. And for that he gets 120 bucks a day. His neighbor uses him as does his neighbor. The guy sends half his money down south where he has a ranch and is as he says a big shot there - considered quite well off, even as he is errand boy to guys who own multimillion dollar homes.

I got on my friend's case one day as he was bitching about illegals - we were smoking 20 dollar cigars as this guy was working around us "not the leaf blower,not now sanchez, do that after we have gone inside porfavor". This is the problem - he doesn't want to give up HIS cheap help but he wants everyone else to take up the slack. He told me once that he tried to get the guy legal - I am not sure he wasn't just bullshitting me but I do know that it would be hard next to impossible to actually get this guy legal even with the help of all those folks that now depend upon him to keep their homes looking tip top for their friends.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

This is where I make my perfunctory, "close the fucking borders for all!" Problem solved. Those 12 million illegals children's children will assimilate into real Americans. That's a reasonable compromise.

 

[canndo]

Y U Make Me Agree Wif U??!!!

illegal immigration causes massive problems, from crime ridden barrios of people who are afraid to call the cops when victimized by the gangs that dominate their lives to a captive workforce terrified theyll be reported to La Migra if they speak up against their oppressors, to ACTUAL SLAVERY( http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-14/local/me-35070_1_back-wages ), all caused by the cupidity of our "Leaders" and the duplicity of the ultra-lefty bleeding hearts who cry RACISM!! whenever the concept of border security is discussed.

Most pro-illegal voices trot out the strawmen that "undocumented workers" "only take the jobs ameriicans dont want" but as a cat who has been displaced by "insourcing" several times ill tell you that aint true.

in california, the wages for a forklift operator, a farm hand, construction workers, and "service jobs" has fallen to below the cost of living. even jobs at McDonalds have fallen become difficult to find, and many "contractors" for big companies like wal-mart, target, and even state county and city buildings have been filled by illegals who actually get paid far less than minimum wage.

the cost of auditing all these "contractor" businesses who hire illegals for illegally low wages makes the chances of getting caught braking the many existing employment laws almost infinitesimal. the state is spending so much on educating, providing healthcare, and coddling illegals and their kids that they cant even afford to investigate the criminal "employers" who are abusing their serfs.

the costs to society for keeping a perpetual underclass in bondage is staggering, butt the costs of actually DOING something about the problem would cost so much in the short term and result in so much butthurt among the shrill voices who LIKE having cheap lettuce and dont mind getting it from a slave, and the shreiking wails of the clowns who equate all law enforcement which necessarily targets brown people with RACISM!! that nothing can be done without real action which will inevitably cost some politicians their jobs.

Add to this those others, asians who managed to get here without actually crossing anything but an ocean. They tend to work for larger but still shady firms who need desktop support and keep Quoc occupied doing far from menial tasks but getting paid half the wage an IT peon would "command". The ones I have met are thankful that the spotlight is perpetualy on the poor Mexican or Nicaraguan and they are almost always presumed to be legal because they speak well, wear nice cloths and drive a souped up Subaru. They as well send money home while they live 5 or 6 to an apartment.

 

[canndo]

This is where I make my perfunctory, "close the fucking borders for all!" Problem solved. Those 12 million illegals children's children will assimilate into real Americans. That's a reasonable compromise.

No, the problem won't be solved, we will still get millions in other ways - so long as there are jobs that from their perspective are gold mines, jobs that pay so well that they can send percentages of it to their families back home. But the point is not to stop every illegal, the point is to slow the influx AND to make a statement. We make a statement now - "if you are capable of dragging your sorry ass 30 miles through the desert and you are willing to work and be uncomfortable there is a place for you in Los Estados Unidos. A "see that fence? it MEANS something" would be a better statement in my opinion.

 

[ginjawarrior]

where these numbers then?

just wondering??

 

[nontheist]

Add to this those others, asians who managed to get here without actually crossing anything but an ocean. They tend to work for larger but still shady firms who need desktop support and keep Quoc occupied doing far from menial tasks but getting paid half the wage an IT peon would "command". The ones I have met are thankful that the spotlight is perpetualy on the poor Mexican or Nicaraguan and they are almost always presumed to be legal because they speak well, wear nice cloths and drive a souped up Subaru. They as well send money home while they live 5 or 6 to an apartment.

Well canndo I know this touches you bleeding heart but the reason mexicans have the spotlight is because the one nationality is responsible for 60% of illegal immigration. It is much harder and expensive for others to jump visas. It happens but at a much lower rate and fixing this issue which should also be done will make getting a US visa more of a nightmare than it already is.

 

[nontheist]

just wondering??

uh too helpless to google amnesty cost?

 

[canndo]

Well canndo I know this touches you bleeding heart but the reason mexicans have the spotlight is because the one nationality is responsible for 60% of illegal immigration. It is much harder and expensive for others to jump visas. It happens but at a much lower rate and fixing this issue which should also be done will make getting a US visa more of a nightmare than it already is.

Having a heart does not necessarily mean it bleeds. Beyond that, we forget that Mexico is simply the last stop before the states, and folks come from central and even south america.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

No, the problem won't be solved, we will still get millions in other ways - so long as there are jobs that from their perspective are gold mines, jobs that pay so well that they can send percentages of it to their families back home. But the point is not to stop every illegal, the point is to slow the influx AND to make a statement. We make a statement now - "if you are capable of dragging your sorry ass 30 miles through the desert and you are willing to work and be uncomfortable there is a place for you in Los Estados Unidos. A "see that fence? it MEANS something" would be a better statement in my opinion.

Why not? You can leave but never come back in again. The illegals will breed themselves out of existence. It might take 30 years, but it's already been a problem for over 30 years for me anyway.

But things will need to change. Like English only, none of this catering to other languages when it comes to government services.

I won't even require any citizenship tests anymore. I'll setup services which teach proper English useage for free and anyone can use them.

Everyone from here on out will automatically be a citizen. If you don't like it, leave.

Every citizen shall have any weapon the military has. If said weapon is too dangerous for the average citizen. NO ONE has it, not the military, police nor even God.

 

[canndo]

Why not? You can leave but never come back in again. The illegals will breed themselves out of existence. It might take 30 years, but it's already been a problem for over 30 years for me anyway.

But things will need to change. Like English only, none of this catering to other languages when it comes to government services.

I won't even require any citizenship tests anymore. I'll setup services which teach proper English useage for free and anyone can use them.

Everyone from here on out will automatically be a citizen. If you don't like it, leave.

Every citizen shall have any weapon the military has. If said weapon is too dangerous for the average citizen. NO ONE has it, not the military, police nor even God.

I am always on the fence about the manditory english thing. I don't like seeing my ballot in spanish but I can't see depriving folks too old or too slow to be able to learn a new language.

So, no aircraft carriers for anyone then?

 

[nontheist]

Having a heart does not necessarily mean it bleeds. Beyond that, we forget that Mexico is simply the last stop before the states, and folks come from central and even south america.

You're pointing out the exact dilemma we face, try to label finger pointers as a problem because they focus on the largest object. You're saying "this is an issue but because mexico in the focus granted most illegals cross the mexican border we need to stop all reasoning skills and focus why the mexican border is our focus"..... How the fuck do liberals manage to get their shoes tied?

 

[UncleBuck]

...the ultra-lefty bleeding hearts who cry RACISM!! whenever the concept of border security is discussed.

news to me, kynes.

border security is not racist at all. mildly retarded, as there exist things called ladders, and ineffectual, as half of all illegal immigrants come here legally.

so mildly retarded and ineffectual, but not racist.

racism is what happens when sockpuppettheist opens his mouth. he's over in the other immigration thread pointing to studies conducted by neo-nazi, white supremacist hate groups and talking about how we need to undo the 14th amendment and talking about how illegal immigration boils down to uneducated mexicans who have 15 kids.

just to clarify.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

So, no aircraft carriers for anyone then?

Sure, why not. You could have awesome parties on one.

 

[nontheist]

news to me, kynes.

border security is not racist at all. mildly retarded, as there exist things called ladders, and ineffectual, as half of all illegal immigrants come here legally.

so mildly retarded and ineffectual, but not racist.

racism is what happens when sockpuppettheist opens his mouth. he's over in the other immigration thread pointing to studies conducted by neo-nazi, white supremacist hate groups and talking about how we need to undo the 14th amendment and talking about how illegal immigration boils down to uneducated mexicans who have 15 kids.

just to clarify.

You're right bucky its not racism it the new liberal term "profiling". Just because you stumble across a man in the desert with no identification can't speak english, wearing a sweater gives you no right to question his motives or use common sense for that matter.

 

[ChesusRice]

Canndo they avoid the immigration system because for mexicans the wait is 18 years
For most of the rest of the world a visa is obtainable in 8 months

 

[UncleBuck]

You're right bucky its not racism it the new liberal term "profiling". Just because you stumble across a man in the desert with no identification can't speak english, wearing a sweater gives you no right to question his motives or use common sense for that matter.

yep, because all illegal immigrants are wandering through the desert.

it's not like 50% of them come here legally or anything

want a shovel for that hole you're working on? how are those 16 hour work days treating you, sweetheart?

 

[nontheist]

Canndo they avoid the immigration system because for mexicans the wait is 18 years
For most of the rest of the world a visa is obtainable in 8 months

Chesus they consume 32% of the legal immigration system. They get their fair share

 

[nontheist]

[h=3]Present-day countries of origin[/h]According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows (latest of 2009):[SUP][7][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Country of origin[/FONT][/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Raw number[/FONT][/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Percent of total[/FONT][/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Percent change 2000 to 2009[/FONT][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Mexico[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]6,650,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]62%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+42%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]El Salvador[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]530,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]5%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+25%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Guatemala[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]480,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]4%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+65%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Honduras[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]320,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]3%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+95%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Philippines[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]270,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+33%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]India[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]200,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+64%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Korea[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]200,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+14%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Ecuador[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]170,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]2%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+55%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Brazil[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]150,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]+49%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]China[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]120,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-37%[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Other[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1,650,000[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]15%[/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]-17%
[/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Absolutely nothing to prove that the border should be our first priority

 

[ChesusRice]

Present-day countries of origin

According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows (latest of 2009):[SUP][7][/SUP]
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #f2f2f2, align: center"]Country of origin
[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #f2f2f2, align: center"]Raw number
[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #f2f2f2, align: center"]Percent of total
[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #f2f2f2, align: center"]Percent change 2000 to 2009
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mexico
[/TD]
[TD]6,650,000
[/TD]
[TD]62%
[/TD]
[TD]+42%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]El Salvador
[/TD]
[TD]530,000
[/TD]
[TD]5%
[/TD]
[TD]+25%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Guatemala
[/TD]
[TD]480,000
[/TD]
[TD]4%
[/TD]
[TD]+65%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Honduras
[/TD]
[TD]320,000
[/TD]
[TD]3%
[/TD]
[TD]+95%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Philippines
[/TD]
[TD]270,000
[/TD]
[TD]2%
[/TD]
[TD]+33%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]India
[/TD]
[TD]200,000
[/TD]
[TD]2%
[/TD]
[TD]+64%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Korea
[/TD]
[TD]200,000
[/TD]
[TD]2%
[/TD]
[TD]+14%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ecuador
[/TD]
[TD]170,000
[/TD]
[TD]2%
[/TD]
[TD]+55%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brazil
[/TD]
[TD]150,000
[/TD]
[TD]1%
[/TD]
[TD]+49%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China
[/TD]
[TD]120,000
[/TD]
[TD]1%
[/TD]
[TD]-37%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Other
[/TD]
[TD]1,650,000
[/TD]
[TD]15%
[/TD]
[TD]-17%

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Absolutely nothing to prove that the border should be our first priority

How long is the fence with Canada?

 

[canndo]

You're pointing out the exact dilemma we face, try to label finger pointers as a problem because they focus on the largest object. You're saying "this is an issue but because mexico in the focus granted most illegals cross the mexican border we need to stop all reasoning skills and focus why the mexican border is our focus"..... How the fuck do liberals manage to get their shoes tied?

I don't think I did that.