Over 26 dead in school shooting

canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
My apologies. My reason sometimes soars away with my rhetoric.

The point you make is that guns abet these crimes; without guns these madmen would be relatively ineffective. Maybe so, but that genie is out of the bottle. There are probably more guns in circulation in the US than people.

The Swiss example illustrates the point that guns really are just tools. It makes no sense to punish hundreds of millions of sane, trust-worthy gun owning citizens for the actions of a lunatic.
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Correct, but my overall point is that we are not well served with arguments such as the ones being put forth here. Tools or not, laws being effective or not, the fact is that these children died for our right to bear arms and that unless we aproach the problem in a radicaly different way, these killing will continue.

Some say it is the culture, some say it is the media or our method of entertainment, others would like to blame the gun itself while still others love to point to just one more crazy.


I watch the show doomsday preppers as often as I can. in a recent show, a young boy was taught to shoot, in some outtakes we saw that the boy (I think it was a boy) began to cry and said that he was unlikely to shoot again. This gives me pause. I wonder if he is indoctrinated as so many of our children are by twitch games and computer shootemup simulations. He may have come to the conclusion that the real thing is quite different from the game or the movie.
 
kelly4

kelly4

Well-Known Member
I think that comparing these numbers between America and any other country is ridiculous. Americans are fucked up and stupid, in general. I would fully expect that America would lead the way in all of these categories. The result of taking guns away would be.....STILL leading the world!

YEAH AMERICA!
Everyone now! "Oh say can you see..."
 
kelly4

kelly4

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Ah, common sense, that constant companion of those who are unwilling or unable to present fact or evidence on behalf of their arguments.
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Are you saying that 100% of gun murders would not have been committed if guns would not have been available? Because if you're not, budlover has nothing to prove to you.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
kelly4 said:
Are you saying that 100% of gun murders would not have been committed if guns would not have been available? Because if you're not, budlover has nothing to prove to you.
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Now I understand him to mean that there would be more gun violence if there were fewer guns available.
 
kelly4

kelly4

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Now I understand him to mean that there would be more gun violence if there were fewer guns available.
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????

The question was to you. You wanted him to show proof that murders by other means would go up if guns were taken away. Thereby, I presumed that you think that it wouldn't.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Correct, but my overall point is that we are not well served with arguments such as the ones being put forth here. Tools or not, laws being effective or not, the fact is that these children died for our right to bear arms and that unless we aproach the problem in a radicaly different way, these killing will continue.

Some say it is the culture, some say it is the media or our method of entertainment, others would like to blame the gun itself while still others love to point to just one more crazy.


I watch the show doomsday preppers as often as I can. in a recent show, a young boy was taught to shoot, in some outtakes we saw that the boy (I think it was a boy) began to cry and said that he was unlikely to shoot again. This gives me pause. I wonder if he is indoctrinated as so many of our children are by twitch games and computer shootemup simulations. He may have come to the conclusion that the real thing is quite different from the game or the movie.
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I don't know what you mean by "radically different way". These kids died because they were unlucky enough to cross paths with a crazy, homicidal person; it could happen to you or me tomorrow.

I have no idea what point you are making with your doomsday preppers story.
 
kelly4

kelly4

Well-Known Member
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
canndo said:
I said I don't beieve the stats - I posted the stats. I am not one to hide data even if that data doesn't support my position. In this case I simply have a problem with the idea that there is one defensive gun use every 13 seconds. If we go to another country that does not have such widespread availability, that could mean that rather than a defensive gun use every 13 seconds there would be a murder every 13 seconds. I simply don't like the result and I suspect their methods.
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I agree that "once every 13 seconds" seems ripe at first glance.

A big problem is that there really isn't any way to measure the near misses. It's very difficult to develop a statistical argument here either pro or con. I've seen numbers for defensive gun use events per annum as low as 400 thousand and as high as four million. Caution nudges me toward the low figure, and even that serves me as a datum in favor of defensive carry. Jmo. cn
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
kelly4 said:
BWAHAHA! Those numbers are by total death rates by firearms. America has 9 deaths per 100,000.

Then when you look at the fine print less than 3 of those are by homicide. LOL!

6 of those 9 are by SUICIDE.



FAIL!
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Suicide is illegal; did you know that? There are still lively judicial arguments about the maximum penalty however. cn
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
When the theater shootings occured in Colorado. SOme dumb shit said concealed carry would of minimized the amount of carnage.
In this shooting.Concealed carry may of saved some lives
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
When the theater shootings occured in Colorado. SOme dumb shit said concealed carry would of minimized the amount of carnage.
In this shooting.Concealed carry may of saved some lives
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MUCH better to have all the victims completely disarmed and the police five minutes away. Gun free zones for the win!
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Wow people sure do like to twist statistics.

In those statistics that canabineer put up, the actual crime statistics they used only concern England and Wales, not the entire UK. They used the population of the entire UK to compare the rates though.

Someone said Canada has looser gun controls than the USA, to that person I say you have never been to Canada. It isn't looser, it is much more restrictive in Canada.

I wonder if people realize there are .9 guns for each person in the USA, the large amount of guns, a protected right and easy accessibility is ALWAYS going to mean more gun play. IF you try to compare countries you ought to compare the rate of ownership. IN the UK they do not have anywhere near the rate of gun ownership we do, its not even close. Even Switzerland doesn't have as great a gun to person ratio as the USA, theirs is about half ours. The official count of guns in the USA did not start until the middle of last century, millions were produced before then so the numbers are low anyway.

Stricter gun laws wouldn't have done jack to prevent this, the school zone is a gun free zone and it didn't do shit. I think if a teacher or two would have been packing then perhaps the loss would not have been as severe. Ever try to defend yourself against a large caliber weapon with a book? The best defense against a large caliber weapon is either a tank or a larger caliber weapon.
 
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