DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

B.B. King

Member
I've been reading this thread in my spare time for the past week or so. I got to page 100, when I decided to jump to the end & see if it's still going. Wow, 2 years, and nearly 2000 posts. Do the Guiness people know about this thing?

After 100 pages, I've seen more than a few redundant questions but I hope my questions haven't been beaten to death in the second 100.

I veg in hydroton, in a DTW system. From there, some go right to flower in a similar system, and some go into further veg and subsequent flower in biobuckets (the bio part is relatively new to me).

For the past year or so, I've been noticing clear snot balls floating around in the veg res., but not in the flower reservoirs. Here's the weird part: the plants in veg have continued to do well, but about 3-4 weeks into flower in the DTW, the plants start taking a beating. Leaves yellow & necrotic. I've been chasing nutrient management all over the board, to no avail. I have noticed that when I transplant up at flower, I used to get vibrant roots coming out the bottoms within a couple of weeks, but for this same year-long period, I've gotten no roots out the bottom.

So for a year, I've been trying to figure out if it was the jump that made the goat fart, or if it was the fart that made the goat jump. I mean, sick roots aren't going to build a healthy plant; but neither is a sick plant going to generate healthy roots. It's hard to really check out the roots in that system, so I guess I just sort of dismissed the root issue.

We started the biobucket gig a couple of months ago. It went well for a couple of weeks, and then a few of the plants started going south. To date, we've lost 3 of 18 plants in flower, and 3 of 12 in veg. About half of the remainders are not well, while the other half are doing quite well. So, it's easy to inspect the roots in this system, and so it's become apparent where the culprit lies. It was indeed the jump that made the goat fart. It only took me a year, and a whole new system to figure that out.

The roots were yellow, at best, many brown, with globs of brown goo here and there. I don't really see slime on the roots, unless that's what you'd call the goo globs. More like a brown coating (which will come off), on most of the roots. I'm thinking what I have going on is Pythium, but I'm not positive.

I have a friend who's a biologist, and a couple of weeks back, she suggested Great White to deal with my situation. I got some ordered, and started researching the "bennies", which led me to this thread. The GW came in just before finding this discussion, so I added to the res, according to the label. After starting into this thread, I immediately added a sock of AF, and a bit of molasses to each reservoir, thinking that everything can brew in the reservoirs. After reading a few dozen more pages of this thread, I've reconsidered, and got my first batch of tea into the reservoirs today.

To date I have definitely seen improvement. Some plants have crazy new root growth, while others have none. I poured the tea right on the base of each plant today. I'm hopeful that doing this by the book is going to get my situation under control.

So after that brief introduction, here are my questions:

1. I'm not sure, but I think "Pythium" is the name of my current adversary. From what I've been able to glean about it, the best control for this one is good bacteria and fungi, not unlike dealing with brown slime algae. So would any variation in the innoculants provided, or methodology be better for "root rot"?

2. My other variation from the general theme here, is that my systems aren't DWC per se, but the biobuckets are real close. Should I do anything different in either of my systems? The DTW is a way different environment. And the biobucket is designed to harbor bennies, so should they be brewed right in the res., or would the molasses still not be good?

Many thanks to all who have contributed here, and especially to Mr. Heisenberg, who has obviously given a considerable chunk of his life to this thread. I'm so glad this thread was still alive when my need came along. Any thoughts about my unique situation would be deeply appreciated.


Grow well,
B.B.
 

jwilds85

Member
I was wandering if anyone has ever used BioBizz line of nutes with the Ebb N Grow buckets. that what i run with my soil grow and curious if it would work out ok in the Ebb system as long as i clean my buckets and res weekly.
 

dr.medecine

Well-Known Member
...my systems aren't DWC per se, but the biobuckets are real close.. ..The DTW is a way different environment. And the biobucket is designed to harbor bennies...
Thanks for writing here B.B, All new info is great and I learn every day from it. I cannot read through everything either though but mostly cause I have a problem making it all blur after a few sides only.. Same with writing, it all becomes a blur and require very much oncentration when text is to long (for me). Try to read a bit every day instead even though hard top remember all you read.

My I ask, what is a DTW system + biobuckets?

Also many thanks to bobhopetoo for teaching me about the measurement "a cup"


/dr.
 

B.B. King

Member
DTW- drain to waste. I top feed for 1 minute every 6 hours, and it drains to waste, as opposed to recycling in any way. Biobuckets are basically a recirculating bucket system with a couple of tweaks. Instead of air pumps, the water drops about a foot as it returns to the reservoir, forcing O2 into the water. The other distinction, is that it has some built-in "housing" for the beneficials. Not much different than bubble buckets (DWC), but if you're going to encourage microbiology, it seems that it would be a good plan to encourage the good stuff! :sleep::sleep:


Grow well,
B.B.
 

2easy

Well-Known Member
heres a little something i wanted to share. i have been adding a cup of ground alfalfa to my tea brew and the results are fantastic. my girls are growing much faster and look much happier too.

i love my tea. since starting to use it i have thrown out so many different additives because they just arent needed anymore and my plants are looking even better than ever. its funny i used to study up on ways to improve my plants now i try to find ways to improve my tea lol
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
heres a little something i wanted to share. i have been adding a cup of ground alfalfa to my tea brew and the results are fantastic. my girls are growing much faster and look much happier too.

i love my tea. since starting to use it i have thrown out so many different additives because they just arent needed anymore and my plants are looking even better than ever. its funny i used to study up on ways to improve my plants now i try to find ways to improve my tea lol
What made you think alfalfa would help? Just wondering
 

2easy

Well-Known Member
been reading a lot about people using alfalfa tea on there plants. veggies and weed. alfalfa contains a powerful growth hormone Triacontanol. its one of those old tricks granma's have been using to make there flowers grow for centuries and so far so good it seems to be working well. my biggest concern was whether or not it would have a negative effect on my root zone but it hasnt so far maybe more time would be advisable before making a final judgement though
 
How often do you run into the issue of the stress of the plant during the root slime take over-
causing the plant to hermie when placed into flower? I didnt see any mention of that on the thread.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
How often do you run into the issue of the stress of the plant during the root slime take over-
causing the plant to hermie when placed into flower? I didnt see any mention of that on the thread.
I've never had this happen but I've mostly dealt with slime in veg.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Signed up to say thanks for giving me my first successful grow ever and to show off my babies like a proud dad should. After 2 failed attempts due to root slime as well as many rookie mistakes, Looks like I will be getting my first harvest ever. I am still making mistakes though. Example I am growing in 13 gallon 6 bucket RDWC. I made the rookie mistake of growing two strains (Alien OG and Harlequin) in the same system. The Harlequins like their nutes about 300PPMs less than the Alien and I burnt the leaves bad on the Harles while getting perfecting tip burn on the Alien. I add a gallon of unfiltered tea thru the netpot of hydrotons twice a week. I don't have root problem anymore but feel that it's helping my plants grow better. <-- Nothing to back this up but it doesn't seem to be hurting them so... I am only using AN 3 part with botanicare cal mag + and was foliar spraying SSU per your recommendation. Thanks again.
Great looking plants. Glad you were able to get some results. Thanks for sharing. Looks tasty!

Cheers
 

Bwpz

Well-Known Member
If I use organic nutrients in my flood and drain, along with your organic tea, will I have to pH my reservoir? I thought I read somewhere that I wouldn't have to.

Thanks for the info as well +
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
If I use organic nutrients in my flood and drain, along with your organic tea, will I have to pH my reservoir? I thought I read somewhere that I wouldn't have to.

Thanks for the info as well +
The tea will help break down your organic nutes and make them available for roots. This means you will probably be experiencing PH swings, most likely upwards, so you will have to adjust at least once a day. What you probably read is me saying not to PH the tea itself.
 

Bwpz

Well-Known Member
The tea will help break down your organic nutes and make them available for roots. This means you will probably be experiencing PH swings, most likely upwards, so you will have to adjust at least once a day. What you probably read is me saying not to PH the tea itself.
Thanks for that. I hate pHing my res every day, it sucks =\ My last grow in soil was so much easier, but I guess it's worth having so much control over it. I have a soil grow going now that is in its first week of flowering and I've only watered it once, after vegging for 30 days.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I hate pHing my res every day, it sucks =\ My last grow in soil was so much easier, but I guess it's worth having so much control over it. I have a soil grow going now that is in its first week of flowering and I've only watered it once, after vegging for 30 days.

Once you know your water, nutes and strain you wont have to PH as much, or at least not take measurements. I know that 1 gallon of my water takes 3ml acid to adjust. I know that my buckets have an upward PH swing over the course of 24hrs. I know that when I top off I need to give the tap water the initial 3ml to bring it to 5.5 and 1 extra ml to compensate for the ph drift. I know this because I checked frequently and kept records for a while. The only time I bother to measure my PH now is with new strains, or if I see something 'off'. If something doesn't look right the PH is the first thing I check.

Here is a $15 meter with free shipping.

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14000356-digital_ph_meter_tester_2_pouches_of_calibration.html
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Figured I would post this info about a rare but possible infection that can occur from hydroponic gardening.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/oxford/research/fwh/stripedbass/factsheet.pdf

Mycobacterium Marinum (M. marinum) is a slowly growing bacteria that may cause disease in fish
and people. This bacteria occurs in bodies of fresh or salt water in various parts of the world.

After exposure, symptoms usually appear within 2 to 4 weeks. Some reported cases have developed
symptoms after 2 to 4 months or longer due to the slow-growing nature of this bacterium.
The most frequent symptom is a slowly developing nodule (raised bump) at the site the bacteria entered the
body. Frequently, the nodule is noticed on the hand or upper arm. Later the nodule can become an
enlarging sore (ulcer). Swelling of nearby lymph nodes occurs. This infection can also involve the joints and
bones. Infections with this bacterium can be treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics may need to be taken for
as long as 6 months or more.

It should be noted that this seems to be associated in hydroponics which do not use beneficial microbes or (enough) sterilizers. Also, infection only occurs through a break in the skin. You have much better chance catching this from aquarium water than res water. Adding our tea probably helps to prevent this infection even more due to displacement. Still, as always, it's a great idea to be diligent about washing and disinfecting hands anytime you enter or leave the budroom, not only for your health but for your plants.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Figured I would post this info about a rare but possible infection that can occur from hydroponic gardening.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/oxford/research/fwh/stripedbass/factsheet.pdf

Mycobacterium Marinum (M. marinum) is a slowly growing bacteria that may cause disease in fish
and people. This bacteria occurs in bodies of fresh or salt water in various parts of the world.

After exposure, symptoms usually appear within 2 to 4 weeks. Some reported cases have developed
symptoms after 2 to 4 months or longer due to the slow-growing nature of this bacterium.
The most frequent symptom is a slowly developing nodule (raised bump) at the site the bacteria entered the
body. Frequently, the nodule is noticed on the hand or upper arm. Later the nodule can become an
enlarging sore (ulcer). Swelling of nearby lymph nodes occurs. This infection can also involve the joints and
bones. Infections with this bacterium can be treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics may need to be taken for
as long as 6 months or more.

It should be noted that this seems to be associated in hydroponics which do not use beneficial microbes or (enough) sterilizers. Also, infection only occurs through a break in the skin. You have much better chance catching this from aquarium water than res water. Adding our tea probably helps to prevent this infection even more due to displacement. Still, as always, it's a great idea to be diligent about washing and disinfecting hands anytime you enter or leave the budroom, not only for your health but for your plants.

Glad i wear gloves :)
 
update, the plants have had a load of brown gunk (afterslime)which is now clearing, there,s lots of new root growth but the roots are clear ,very few white healthy ones. the plants are looking much better,but the problem still seems to be ongoing, should I add a higher dose of tea or continue with the same dosage. It seems as though theres a huge biological war going on in those buckets,and the balance of power keeps tipping one way then the other.
There is lots of root material floating around in the res with the afterslime, should I change over the water in the bucket and if so should it be a full change or partial and should I rinse clean the roots.
For the first time in 6 months I'm at least winning some of the battles, thanks to Heisenberg and all the other contributers.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
update, the plants have had a load of brown gunk (afterslime)which is now clearing, there,s lots of new root growth but the roots are clear ,very few white healthy ones. the plants are looking much better,but the problem still seems to be ongoing, should I add a higher dose of tea or continue with the same dosage. It seems as though theres a huge biological war going on in those buckets,and the balance of power keeps tipping one way then the other.
There is lots of root material floating around in the res with the afterslime, should I change over the water in the bucket and if so should it be a full change or partial and should I rinse clean the roots.
For the first time in 6 months I'm at least winning some of the battles, thanks to Heisenberg and all the other contributers.
You can change out the water if it seems too dirty, but don't rinse the roots or sterilize. Just change the water and add more bennies. Clear tiny roots are a good sign. It means rapid root growth. Steady as she goes.
 

Bwpz

Well-Known Member
When it comes to Flood & Drain tables what do you recommend as the medium/container? I've looked into air pots but everything I've seen is them in with soil in them. Besides that I figured 4" rockwool cubes with 2-3 gallon regular plastic containers. Right now I have 4" rockwool cubes in a table of hydroton. This is more of an opinion subject, so many people do it differently, so I was just wondering your opinion. I'm using FoxFarm organics as well.
 
Top