Chopsticks33
Active Member
Yo buddy! The tea for sure work!! I will need to rip off all that brown root. I know sucks cuz it happen to me b4. Top feed your plant with the tea. U will see fat rot in couple days.
DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
bobhopetoo
Member
found everything I need in the uk
I have also ordered a 3 stage ro filter as I know my area has high levels of chlorine and chloramines.
In fact I have a bit of a theory about this, A lady in the local growshop told me that sales of hydro gear have dropped right off, most people are on soil or coco now. This is due to the high instance of root diseases and other problems that started a few years ago, up untill that point occurrences of pythium and root disease were rare and easilly dealt with. she had all sorts of conspiracy theories about this, however with a little research I discovered that they started adding chloramine to our tap water about the same number of years ago. could it be that the chloramine being more persistant than chlorine is changing the natural balance of microorganisms within hydroponic systems benefitting the harmfull pathogens by effectively killing off their competition.
I am interested to find out if slime is more resistant to chloramine than other naturally occurring beneficial organisms,in turn leading to pythium, meaning that we have to redress the balance with tea.
bobhopetoo
Member
oh yeah my great white came without a spoon how big are the spoons that normally come with it and in ml if you know, I'm all metric over here.
Cheers people, this thread has been amazingly informative and explains a lot of the problems I've had, I don't know what I'd have done otherwise.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Use about 5ml (1 tsp) per gallon. A little goes a long way if you are mixing it with other stuff.
I think the reason slime seems to be more of a problem now for hydro users than before if because of the market leaning towards organic nutrients and additives. You used to hear people going to a bit of trouble to ensure they had all organic nutes for their grow, because so much was synthetic. Now days it's sometimes difficult to make sure there are no organics in your line up. Kind of a flip flop. Anyway that is just a guess. As for chloramine, generally it isn't much of a problem, but what you're saying is possible if the local plant is using high doses. You can request a water quality report from them.
I have also heard a few conspiracy theories. The govt/cartel/CIA released a pathogen that targets cannabis. Aside form the usual problems I have with conspiracy theories, it seems rather odd that simple soil microbes can overcome a genetically engineered pathogen, not to mention the slime does not actually infect plants. I am always dismayed when people convey information based on the sensationalism rather than the truth value, and hydro shop owners seem especially prone to do that.
2easy
Well-Known Member
hey heisenberg. i know you say its a no no. but i am continuing to use organics in my dwc with the tea and i have found your tea still works wonders and has cured the rot.
things are going great now. I'm not suggesting everyone try it but i had some expensive stuff that was organic and i didn't want to throw it away if i didn't have to and now it seems i will be sticking with it. thanks heis
things are going great now. I'm not suggesting everyone try it but i had some expensive stuff that was organic and i didn't want to throw it away if i didn't have to and now it seems i will be sticking with it. thanks heis
bobhopetoo
Member
re conspiracy. never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
We've had a few outbreaks of cyanobacteria in lakes and ponds near here (blue/greeen algae) my local watersports centre was closed for a lot of last year. but these are meant to photosynthesize. The stuff in my tank grows in the dark but fits the description you give perfectly. my filter arrives tomorrow and I'll start brewing and hopefully grow some plants.
one question, would there be any benefit to washing down surfaces in the growroom with tea to biologically control any spores that are left behind. I have allready steam cleaned and sprayed with fungicide/bactericide/virucide, Physan 20 is banned in europe and not easy to get hold of.
did anyone ever figure out the vectors for transmission of this stuff I'd love to find out more about it.
I'll keep you posted on how I get on, thanks for the help.
Check out this link... Chapter 4 top half of page 10. http://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/sites/ag.arizona.edu.ceac/files/pls217nbCH4_1.pdf
It says treat the slime with regular dish soap!
"Since the motile zoospores do not have a cell wall, their naked membranes are easily dissolved by soaps or surfactants which can be placed in the nutrient solution. Use only low concentrations, 5-20 ppm, as higher conc. can cause phytotoxicity."
I just tried it. I put 3 little drop to 10 gal and the slime basically dissolved away in 15 min. My roots are still in real bad shape b/c I have fighting it for 2.5 weeks now. I'm not even sure the crop will make it....
It says treat the slime with regular dish soap!
"Since the motile zoospores do not have a cell wall, their naked membranes are easily dissolved by soaps or surfactants which can be placed in the nutrient solution. Use only low concentrations, 5-20 ppm, as higher conc. can cause phytotoxicity."
I just tried it. I put 3 little drop to 10 gal and the slime basically dissolved away in 15 min. My roots are still in real bad shape b/c I have fighting it for 2.5 weeks now. I'm not even sure the crop will make it....
WOOOOWWWW seriously?!?!?!?!?! Holy crap I mean HOLY FRICKIN CRAP BATMAN!?!?!?!?! Soap??? REGULAR DISH SOAP IS THE ANSWER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
!!!!!! What the hell!!!!
jin420
Well-Known Member
jin420
Well-Known Member
I think you're being a little simplistic in your thinking here dude this seems to be a major breakthrough here. Read the pages and they document that just the simple addition of 5-20ppm nonionic surfactants to the res will completely destroy all motile zoospores(pythium, brown slime). If you wanna joke about this go ahead but if this is true then this may be the holy grail in the war against root rot.
jin420
Well-Known Member
And from what I gather you have to make sure it's a nonionic surfactant and some dishsoaps are anionic so you have to get the right one. They list several products they used: AquaGro 2000 L, Agral 90, ICI, Aquatrols, Cherryhill, and NJ. I'm gonna do some research on the costs of these products and how easily they are to obtain(i.e. do you need a license to buy them or something). It may be that these are cost prohibitive or hard to obtain in which case Heisenburg's tea may still be a better alternative. Also there are other types of bacteria and zoospores that have cell walls and they won't be controlled by the nonionic surfactant. So even if the stuff works and is easily obtainable and cheap then Heisenburg's tea would still be beneficial in attacking other meanies. Don't misconsture me I'm not out to sink Heisenburg's battleship here I just want to keep my ladies as healthy as possible.
jin420
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing it has to be a nonionic surfactant so it doesn't bind to other metals in the res(nutes namely) and changes their chemical composition. The implications of this are pretty astounding the motile zoospore are mechanically killed by the surfactant immediately. Their weak membranes(motile zoospores lack cell walls) are broken by it and they essentially pop like little bubbles. The idea of these little bastards blowing up violently all over the place brings me GREAT JOY INDEED
jin420
Well-Known Member
Found this on gardenweb
For best results, add a surfactant that is specifically made for horticultural purposes and labeled for use with a herbicide. If a nonionic surfactant is not available certain dishwashing detergents that contain high amounts of a nonionic surfactant may be helpful. Check the label of a dish soap to see if it contains a nonionic (not anionic)
surfactant. The soap may contain both or just the anionic surfactant. If the label says it contains a nonionic surfactant, that is preferred. Dish soaps that are concentrated and are effective in grease dispersion often contain nonionic surfactants. Add the detergent last and mix by gently swirling together. See the"How to Use" page for more information.
Some commonly used nonionic surfactants are Hi-Yield®
Spreader Sticker, No Foam A® , Latron B- 1956®, and
X-77®.
Could only easily find Hi-Yield Spreader Sticker for sale online gonna order some and test application rates to find out how much per gallon equals 5-20ppm. Also gonna do further research to see which dish soaps have nonionic surfactants as the main ingrediant. Not sure how much of a problem anionic surfactants could be but the thought of anionic surfactants changing the chemical compositions of the nutes doesn't sit well with me. Nonionic surfactants can't do that so they should be good in dosages of 5-20ppm as described. My milwaukee combo meter only measures down to 10ppm increments so I'm going to have to be careful in measuring when trying to determine how much per gallon yields the reccomended ppms. I'll be using RO water which seems to be coming out of my RO system at a consistent 50ppm out of the faucet. I'll use a submersible pump to agitate the water since whenever I grew in DWC(now use top-drip systems) I noticed that the ppms seemed to fluctuate a lot with the air bubbles so for accuracy's sake I think I need to use a submersible pump.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-Yield-Spreader-Sticker-8-oz-NON-Ionic-Surfactant-/280819935647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41622c299f
For best results, add a surfactant that is specifically made for horticultural purposes and labeled for use with a herbicide. If a nonionic surfactant is not available certain dishwashing detergents that contain high amounts of a nonionic surfactant may be helpful. Check the label of a dish soap to see if it contains a nonionic (not anionic)
surfactant. The soap may contain both or just the anionic surfactant. If the label says it contains a nonionic surfactant, that is preferred. Dish soaps that are concentrated and are effective in grease dispersion often contain nonionic surfactants. Add the detergent last and mix by gently swirling together. See the"How to Use" page for more information.
Some commonly used nonionic surfactants are Hi-Yield®
Spreader Sticker, No Foam A® , Latron B- 1956®, and
X-77®.
Could only easily find Hi-Yield Spreader Sticker for sale online gonna order some and test application rates to find out how much per gallon equals 5-20ppm. Also gonna do further research to see which dish soaps have nonionic surfactants as the main ingrediant. Not sure how much of a problem anionic surfactants could be but the thought of anionic surfactants changing the chemical compositions of the nutes doesn't sit well with me. Nonionic surfactants can't do that so they should be good in dosages of 5-20ppm as described. My milwaukee combo meter only measures down to 10ppm increments so I'm going to have to be careful in measuring when trying to determine how much per gallon yields the reccomended ppms. I'll be using RO water which seems to be coming out of my RO system at a consistent 50ppm out of the faucet. I'll use a submersible pump to agitate the water since whenever I grew in DWC(now use top-drip systems) I noticed that the ppms seemed to fluctuate a lot with the air bubbles so for accuracy's sake I think I need to use a submersible pump.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-Yield-Spreader-Sticker-8-oz-NON-Ionic-Surfactant-/280819935647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41622c299f
jin420
Well-Known Member
No hard feelings man sorry if I sounded harsh I was caught up in the excitement of learning about nonionic surfactants and the implications of them in our battle. Sorry again bro didn't mean to flame you or anything.
2easy
Well-Known Member
no problem at all man i can see how my little joke could have been taken the wrong way sometimes my humour doesnt translate well in text