How To Spot A Liberal....

[Rob Roy]

where do you get your water from?

did no tax dollars go into construction of the interstate highway system? you approve having your money extorted by the government for fuel taxes but not in other ways?

were no tax dollars ever involved in the infrastructure used to provide internet service? were no tax dollars used in any way to usher about the creation of the internet, perhaps through public education, federal scholarships for higher learning, subsidization or loans of companies whose materials were used somehow in the creation of the internet itself or the infrastructure needed for its mass implementation?



simpleton logic for simpletons, i suppose. if you said 'that may imply', you might be closer to reality, which you are far out of touch with, it seems.

this is not a deductive logic argument, it depends on definitions. and, once again, at least SOME grasp on reality.

I don't approve of fuel tax extortion. Approving of something and paying for something to prevent an entity from harming you are two different things. I approve of people being responsible for paying for that which they use, not that which another entity insists "is for their own good" if they do not intend to use it or do not use it.

You keep avoiding the point I'm making. Yes extorted tax dollars were used to construct things. That doesn't mean the funds weren't gotten through extortion though does it? You're trying to justify the rape by saying, "hey judge I know the bitch liked it because she stopped struggling."

Reality isn't what a majority is deceived to believe or believes out of ignorance of all the facts. The majority of the world used to believe the world was flat, but that didn't mean it was flat. I have a grasp on reality. Taxes given invountarily are extorted. Logic insists that is true.

You keep trying to shift the argument to rationalizations of why the extortion is "good" based on all the wonderful things it brings about. That isn't an argument REFUTING the extortion, that is a rationalization attempting to JUSTIFY the extortion.

Are we in agreement that the extortion DOES HAPPEN? Or is that REALITY, beyond your grasp oh flat earth dweller?

 

[UncleBuck]

I don't approve of fuel tax extortion. Approving of something and paying for something to prevent an entity from harming you are two different things. I approve of people being responsible for paying for that which they use, not that which another entity insists "is for their own good" if they do not intend to use it or do not use it.

You keep avoiding the point I'm making. Yes extorted tax dollars were used to construct things. That doesn't mean the funds weren't gotten through extortion though does it? You're trying to justify the rape by saying, "hey judge I know the bitch liked it because she stopped struggling."

Reality isn't what a majority is deceived to believe or believes out of ignorance of all the facts. The majority of the world used to believe the world was flat, but that didn't mean it was flat. I have a grasp on reality. Taxes given invountarily are extorted. Logic insists that is true.

You keep trying to shift the argument to rationalizations of why the extortion is "good" based on all the wonderful things it brings about. That isn't an argument REFUTING the extortion, that is a rationalization attempting to JUSTIFY the extortion.

Are we in agreement that the extortion DOES HAPPEN? Or is that REALITY, beyond your grasp oh flat earth dweller?

you call taxes 'extortion' yet have no problem benefiting from said extortion.

are you dense?

 

[Rob Roy]

you call taxes 'extortion' yet have no problem benefiting from said extortion.

are you dense?

Please give me your definition of extortion if you disagree with mine.... bet you can't / won't answer that simple request.

If I robbed you, I might benefit, that doesn't make it acceptable does it? How do you know what I have a problem with or not?

So you never really answered my question...Are we in agreement that taxes are extortion if they are taken without a persons consent?

I benefit from extortion ? Now you are back to trying to shift the discussion to a justification of extortion...round and round you go.

Dense ? Nope.

 

[juatabud]

"Any or all of these are a tip off that the person you are talking to has been sipping the kool aid. Do not try and change them!! This will only enrage and confuse them (yes they are easily confused).

Smile and make your way to the saner part of the party."

Well I have tried to change many people on the right, the problem is most of them think the world is only 6000 years old and Jesus was born of a virgin.

 

[UncleBuck]

Please give me your definition of extortion if you disagree with mine.... bet you can't / won't answer that simple request.

If I robbed you, I might benefit, that doesn't make it acceptable does it? How do you know what I have a problem with or not?

So you never really answered my question...Are we in agreement that taxes are extortion if they are taken without a persons consent?

I benefit from extortion ? Now you are back to trying to shift the discussion to a justification of extortion...round and round you go.

Dense ? Nope.

ex·tor·tion

   /ɪkˈstɔr

ʃən/ Show Spelled[ik-stawr-shuh

n] Show IPA
–noun 1. an act or instance of extorting.

2. Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.

3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.

4. anything extorted.




let's see....taxes are obtained by the government because we the people initiated them via the mechanisms created by our founding fathers and the constitution.

so let's recap: you use your own, personal definitions of words, believe that the police will kill you for a $700 tax not paid, and benefit from the things you rant against.

yep, you are a sad, deluded individual. possibly a member or leader of a cult.

i shall now call you 'rube roy'.

according to rube roy, you can benefit from someone's murder yet be blameless. just as you can benefit from taxes paid to and used by the government via extortion, yet not be guilty of extortion.

the spoken word and testament of cult leader rube roy, everyone.

 

[I The Breather]

you know how to spot the people who just don't give a fuck? their drinking Jagermeister. it doesn't matter what political party your part of, the government is always going to screw you over. so smoke a fat blunt and realize those that have money are going to die just like everyone else.

 

[Rob Roy]

ex·tor·tion

   /ɪkˈstɔr

ʃən/ Show Spelled[ik-stawr-shuh

n] Show IPA
–noun 1. an act or instance of extorting.

2. Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.

3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.

4. anything extorted.




let's see....taxes are obtained by the government because we the people initiated them via the mechanisms created by our founding fathers and the constitution.

so let's recap: you use your own, personal definitions of words, believe that the police will kill you for a $700 tax not paid, and benefit from the things you rant against.

yep, you are a sad, deluded individual. possibly a member or leader of a cult.

i shall now call you 'rube roy'.

according to rube roy, you can benefit from someone's murder yet be blameless. just as you can benefit from taxes paid to and used by the government via extortion, yet not be guilty of extortion themselves.

I was getting rather used to your insults...but resorting to lies is a bit juvenile.

the spoken word and testament of cult leader rube roy, everyone.

Nope, I'm the one for individual rights remember? YOU are the one that relies on the great collective cult, not me.

It's so much easier to "win" a debate when you fail to address with logic and instead insult eh?

Here I'll repeat my position. It's wrong to take from somebody against their will or absent their consent. It's wrong to extort. The meaning of words don't change if they mean one thing when you or I commit an act... and then magically mean something else if a majority or a government commit the same act.
If rape is unacceptable when committed by one person it doesn't become acceptable when it becomes a forced gang bang does it?

"We the people" nice phrase...so you believe what is immoral for an individual to do somehow becomes moral when the same act has more people backing it? How is that magical transformation done ?

It's apparent that you run to insults and don't, won't or can't answer simple questions and love the strawman argument. I had hoped better from you. Peace.

 

[UncleBuck]

It's wrong to extort. The meaning of words don't change if they mean one thing when you or I commit an act... and then magically mean something else if a majority or a government commit the same act.

i agree with you, it is wrong to extort.

now, using the definition of 'extortion' as found in the dictionary and historical facts about the advent of federal income taxes, make the argument that federal income taxes are extortion.

you can't.

even if you did the impossible (without using your own definition of the word not found in any dictionary), that would only mean that you are equally guilty, since you are the beneficiary. unless, of course, you don't use electricity, the internet, watch tv, live longer and more healthy, etc etc etc

 

[Rob Roy]

i agree with you, it is wrong to extort.

now, using the definition of 'extortion' as found in the dictionary and historical facts about the advent of federal income taxes, make the argument that federal income taxes are extortion.

you can't.

even if you did the impossible (without using your own definition of the word not found in any dictionary), that would only mean that you are equally guilty, since you are the beneficiary. unless, of course, you don't use electricity, the internet, watch tv, live longer and more healthy, etc etc etc

So all that has to happen for extortion not to be "extortion" is if it is made legal? Is that like when slavery was legal, it was morally justifiable then too? Is that like how murder and war crimes become "collateral damage" when the guys with white hats do it under color of law?

So when the drug cops can legally take your house, because it's written on a piece of paper it is then acceptable?

I realize you may be too busy thinking up ways to straw man me, and the subject matter might be a little to much for you, but do consider reading Abolitionist Lysander Spooner's "No treason" essays. Nighty night.

 

[UncleBuck]

So all that has to happen for extortion not to be "extortion" is if it is made legal? Is that like when slavery was legal, it was morally justifiable then too? Is that like how murder and war crimes become "collateral damage" when the guys with white hats do it under color of law?

So when the drug cops can legally take your house, because it's written on a piece of paper it is then acceptable?

I realize you may be too busy thinking up ways to straw man me, and the subject matter might be a little to much for you, but do consider reading Abolitionist Lysander Spooner's "No treason" essays. Nighty night.

i would say slavery, war crimes and draconian drug laws ARE an abuse of one's authority.

slavery has been overturned by we the people via the groundwork laid out by our founding fathers in the constitution.

war crimes are prosecuted thanks to the geneva convention (although if no one sees and no one knows, nothing gets done).

draconian drug laws are on the way out as well, too slowly albeit.

but there is nothing in how federal income taxes became law of the land that meets the criteria for extortion.

nice try at obfuscating the argument, something which you protest against.

what is it called when someone argues against something but does it anyway?

 

[Rob Roy]

i would say slavery, war crimes and draconian drug laws ARE an abuse of one's authority.

slavery has been overturned by we the people via the groundwork laid out by our founding fathers in the constitution.

war crimes are prosecuted thanks to the geneva convention (although if no one sees and no one knows, nothing gets done).

draconian drug laws are on the way out as well, too slowly albeit.

but there is nothing in how federal income taxes became law of the land that meets the criteria for extortion.

nice try at obfuscating the argument, something which you protest against.

what is it called when someone argues against something but does it anyway?

Yet you still never address the question. If something is made legal or made illegal how does that change the meaning of the word if the action or substance remains the same? Legal and illegal are flexible terms and don't give actions or things different properties. Alcohol was legal, then illegal, then legal. It was always alcohol though.

Extortion IS the threat of using force to obtain that which another does not willingly give you or owe you. Making it legal to extort and changing the name to something more palatable, doesn't change the act or the methods of the act at all.

Making something "the law of the land" can't change the actual act either. It is an attempt to legitimize the act under color of law. It is how terms like "collateral damage" come into being, because it's alot nicer to say that instead of "we just murdered a bunch of civilians."

Taking something from somebody against there will can't somehow be legitimized, because ANOTHER person or persons authorized it.

The flaw in the constitution is it purports to protect liberty, please explain how it does that and at the same time grants people I don't know the power to take something from me against my will under the threat of force....extortion.

Still haven't read any Lysander Spooner eh?

 

[UncleBuck]

Yet you still never address the question. If something is made legal or made illegal how does that change the meaning of the word if the action or substance remains the same? Legal and illegal are flexible terms and don't give actions or things different properties. Alcohol was legal, then illegal, then legal. It was always alcohol though.

Extortion IS the threat of using force to obtain that which another does not willingly give you or owe you. Making it legal to extort and changing the name to something more palatable, doesn't change the act or the methods of the act at all.

Making something "the law of the land" can't change the actual act either. It is an attempt to legitimize the act under color of law. It is how terms like "collateral damage" come into being, because it's alot nicer to say that instead of "we just murdered a bunch of civilians."

Taking something from somebody against there will can't somehow be legitimized, because ANOTHER person or persons authorized it.

The flaw in the constitution is it purports to protect liberty, please explain how it does that and at the same time grants people I don't know the power to take something from me against my will under the threat of force....extortion.

Still haven't read any Lysander Spooner eh?

i am now convinced you are a spambot.

your definition of extortion is wrong.

extortion involves abuse of one's office or authority. the powers of the government to tax were given by we the people by amending the constitution in accordance with the plan of our founding fathers.

 

[Rob Roy]

i am now convinced you are a spambot.

your definition of extortion is wrong.

extortion involves abuse of one's office or authority. the powers of the government to tax were given by we the people by amending the constitution in accordance with the plan of our founding fathers.

View attachment 1423780

So extortion DOESN'T mean taking making somebody give you something against their will under the threat of force? Interesting.
My definition of extortion remains CONSISTENT. Yours changes to conform with your rationalizations of the perceived "good" the extortion will deliver.

I think what our long um "discussion" has proven;

1) you DO allow a word to mean something different when the context changes from you or I as the perpetrator to government as the perpetrator. I don't.

2) You also believe another party can make a commitment for you, and obligate you and it is somehow just. I don't.

3) You think words on paper confer rights and rights are bestowed upon us by government. I don't.

4) When your intellect fails and the roar of the cognitive dissonance beast is heard, you resort to name calling.

I don't even eat spam.

I

 

[UncleBuck]

So extortion DOESN'T mean taking making somebody give you something against their will under the threat of force? Interesting.
My definition of extortion remains CONSISTENT. Yours changes to conform with your rationalizations of the perceived "good" the extortion will deliver.

mine is straight from the dictionary.

i could CONSISTENTLY define my penis as being 13 inches long and thicker than a tree stump, it won't make it true.

you should try going by the dictionary definition of extortion and try again.

if you get to make up what words mean, i can too.

the government is composed of two chambers of cheese: the house of bamboo and the feline. every four years, america has erections to determine the tomato.

 

[undertheice]

here you go:

ex·tort
   /ɪkˈstɔrt/ Show Spelled[ik-stawrt]
–verb (used with object)
1. Law .
a. to wrest or wring (money, information, etc.) from a person by violence, intimidation, or abuse of authority; obtain by force, torture, threat, or the like.
b. to take illegally by reason of one's office.
2. to compel (something) of a person or thing: Her wit and intelligence extorted their admiration.

as you can see, extortion (to extort) certainly includes the abuse of authority, but doesn't require that authority be used. is this more of your invisible hair splitting?

 

[Rob Roy]

mine is straight from the dictionary.

i could CONSISTENTLY define my penis as being 13 inches long and thicker than a tree stump, it won't make it true.

you should try going by the dictionary definition of extortion and try again.

if you get to make up what words mean, i can too.

the government is composed of two chambers of cheese: the house of bamboo and the feline. every four years, america has erections to determine the tomato.

ex·tort (

k-stôrt

) tr.v. ex·tort·ed, ex·tort·ing, ex·torts To obtain from another by coercion or intimidation.

[Latin extorqu

re, extort-, to wrench out, extort : ex-, ex- + torqu

re, to twist; see terkw- in Indo-European roots.]
ex·tort

er n.
ex·tor

tive adj.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
extort [ɪkˈstɔːt]
vb (tr) 1. to secure (money, favours, etc.) by intimidation, violence, or the misuse of influence or authority
2. to obtain by importunate demands the children extorted a promise of a trip to the zoo
3. (Business / Commerce) to overcharge for (something, esp interest on a loan) [from Latin extortus wrenched out, from extorquēre to wrest away, from torquēre to twist, wrench]
extorter n
extortive




Sorry to hear your government only has erections every four years, that might explain them being so... well ..."extortive".

House of bamboo and feline not bad...that was actually kinda funny.

Oh and by the way, the two chambers of cheese are actually Swiss and Wisconsin Cheddar.

 

[HARRY304E]

You are at a cocktail party and you meet someone new. Of course the convo leads all over, but in the end politics will be discussed.

So is the person you are talking to a Liberal, or not? Now in these changing days of events and topics, it can be difficult to spot them right off. Like flotsam and jetsom, liberals have no true base of principles and tend to drift from week to week, so this has an expiration date on it, but right now...if in conversation you hear anyone utter any of these things with actual seriousness...you know they are Liberal.

1.) That a government-run "public option" health insurance would not extinguish or even harm private insurance.

2.) That cap-and-trade carbon regulations will raise energy costs without injuring the economy

3.) That taxing Peter to subsidize Paul's purchase of a new car is a sound basis for economic growth

4.) That an 85% unspent stimulus has routed the recession.


Any or all of these are a tip off that the person you are talking to has been sipping the kool aid. Do not try and change them!! This will only enrage and confuse them (yes they are easily confused).

Smile and make your way to the saner part of the party.

Could not be said better..

 

[canuckgrow]

Tell you how to spot a dumb ass...They are the ones that are constantly trying to divide people into either Republican or Democrat or Left or Right. They are also the ones that allow themselves to be divided into Left or Right or Republican or Democrat.

Whats my point? Well we keep fighting about whether the left is right or the right is left and the crooks are emptying the the safe and are making a clean getaway.

 

[Rob Roy]

Tell you how to spot a dumb ass...They are the ones that are constantly trying to divide people into either Republican or Democrat or Left or Right. They are also the ones that allow themselves to be divided into Left or Right or Republican or Democrat.

Whats my point? Well we keep fighting about whether the left is right or the right is left and the crooks are emptying the the safe and are making a clean getaway.

Good point canuck and an even better avatar.

 

[Sparky4u]

"Tell you how to spot a dumb ass...They are the ones that are constantly trying to divide people into either Republican or Democrat or Left or Right. They are also the ones that allow themselves to be divided into Left or Right or Republican or Democrat.

Whats my point? Well we keep fighting about whether the left is right or the right is left and the crooks are emptying the the safe and are making a clean getaway. "

Canuck gets the free j with the smartest post I may read for the day!

We should do one of two things with our entire elected house, congress, and all the manchurian president's men-
Throw them all out or weld the doors shut after they go in like a 50 yr time capsule- either will work for me.
​