Congresswoman on Palin's "Hit List" shot

[londonfog]

watch this one..still saying you guys have no blood on hands

[youtube]Nr-0088ZLno[/youtube]

 

[doc111]

Well lets put it this way Clarence Dupnik the Sheriff down in Tucson Arizona states himself that this hate talk needs to stop..They also state that a letter was found, but he can't go into details due to the investigation..He then goes on about how we all need to stop all this crazy hate talk...Now ask yourself why would a man that knows more about this case tell us we need to stop the hate talk...Keep it real or keep it moving

With all due respect to the Sherrif, we have no idea what his political leanings are. Also, his job is to enforce the law, not order people what they can and can't say. I think we can all agree that the political tone is a bit nutty right now. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle this guy's loyalties were. It doesn't matter if he is a communist or an anarchist. He is a psycho murderer and needs to be dealt with, period! The finger pointing has to stop. Especially if we are blaming the political tone, finger pointing doesn't serve to do anything but put people on the defensive. Where was security? Police? Where were they? From what little I've heard, it sounds like it was civilians who jumped him when his second mag jammed.

 

[londonfog]

With all due respect to the Sherrif, we have no idea what his political leanings are. Also, his job is to enforce the law, not order people what they can and can't say. I think we can all agree that the political tone is a bit nutty right now. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle this guy's loyalties were. It doesn't matter if he is a communist or an anarchist. He is a psycho murderer and needs to be dealt with, period! The finger pointing has to stop. Especially if we are blaming the political tone, finger pointing doesn't serve to do anything but put people on the defensive. Where was security? Police? Where were they? From what little I've heard, it sounds like it was civilians who jumped him when his second mag jammed.

Come on..dude it comes a time when a man/woman has to say damn I'm/we are wrong... Its the Sheriff job to serve and protect...to maintain peace...if he is letting everyone know to calm the phuck down then guess what...he maintaining that peace...Oh but sense he not saying what you want to hear then now he leaning left ..WTF..Like I said before some people so blind they don't want to see the lesson in this....STOP THE HATE TALK...we can disagree without wanting to kill each other or innocent children... STOP THE HATE TALK...a nut could be listening to you

 

[UncleBuck]

It doesn't matter if he is a communist or an anarchist. He is a psycho murderer and needs to be dealt with, period!

not quite, doc.

first, this was CLEARLY a politically motivated killing.

second, it wasn't just as simple as 'he is a nutjob, a psycho murderer'. if i had to register a guess, i would say he was slowly developing schizophrenia, based on what i can decipher and his age (early 20's is basically prime time for onset). in any case, i don't think an insanity plea will work, he did plan this in advance, there is plenty of evidence to make that claim.

TUCSON, Ariz. — At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"


Loughner was angry about her response – she read the question and had nothing to say.


"He was like ... 'What do you think of these people who are working for the government and they can't describe what they do?'" one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday. "He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy."


Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonlinear and obsessed with how words create reality.
The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.


"If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem," the 22-year-old wrote Dec. 15 in a wide-ranging screed that was posted in video form and ended with this: "What's government if words don't have meaning?"


On Sunday, Loughner was charged in the shootings a day earlier at a political event outside a Tucson supermarket. Aside from the six killed, 14 people were wounded. Doctors were optimistic about Giffords' chances for survival.


Loughner had at least one other contact with Giffords. Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at Loughner's home and seized a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007. Saturday's shooting occurred at a similar event.


Other evidence seized from his home included an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be Loughner's signature. Police say he purchased the Glock pistol used in the attack in November.


Loughner lives with his parents about a five-minute drive from the shootings, in a middle-class neighborhood lined with desert landscaping and palm trees. Sheriff's deputies blocked off much of the street Sunday.


Neighbors said Loughner kept to himself and was often seen walking his dog, almost always wearing a hooded sweat shirt and listening to his iPod.


His high school friends said they fell out of touch with Loughner and last spoke to him around March, when one of them was going to set up some bottles in the desert for target practice and Loughner suggested he might come along. It was unusual – Loughner hadn't expressed an interest in guns before – and his increasingly confrontational behavior was pushing them apart. He would send nonsensical text messages, but also break off contact for weeks on end.


"We just started getting sketched out about him," the friend said. It was the first time he'd felt that way.


Around the same time, Loughner's behavior also began to worry officials at Pima Community College, where Loughner began attending classes in 2005, the school said in a release.


Between February and September, Loughner "had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions," the statement said. He was suspended in September 2010 after college police discovered a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal according to the U.S. Constitution. He withdrew voluntarily the following month, and was told he could return only if, among other things, a mental health professional agreed he did not present a danger, the school said.


It was at the college that Loughner had posed his question to Giffords about government and words, one friend said. A college spokesman said Giffords often has used school property for open events; a Giffords spokesman said he was not sure at which event the exchange would have taken place.
Loughner's alienation from his friends was gradual.


The Loughner they met when he was a freshman at Mountain View High School may have been socially awkward, but he was generally happy and fun to be around. The crew smoked marijuana every day, and when they weren't going to concerts or watching movies they talked about the meaning of life and dabbled in conspiracy theories.


For a time, Loughner drank heavily, to the point of poisoning himself, the friends said. Once, during school lunch break as a junior, he downed so much tequila that he came back to class, within five minutes passed out cold, had to be rushed to the hospital and "almost died," one friend said.


Mistrust of government was Loughner's defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.
On his YouTube page, he listed among his favorite books "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World" – two novels about how authorities control the masses. Other books in the wide-ranging list included "Mein Kampf," "The Communist Manifesto," "Peter Pan" and Aesop's Fables.


Over time, Loughner became increasingly introspective – what one of the friends described as a "nihilistic rut."


An ardent atheist, he began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the government and the monotony of modern life.


"He didn't want people to wake up and do the same thing every day. He wanted more chaos, he wanted less regularity," one friend said.


The friends said Loughner told anyone who would listen that the world we see does not exist, that words have no meaning – and that the only way to derive meaning was during sleep. Loughner began obsessing about a practice called lucid dreaming, in which people try to actively control their sleeping world.


Several people who knew Loughner at community college said he did not engage in political discussions, but was socially awkward.


"He made a lot of the people really uncomfortable, especially the girls in the class," said Steven Cates, who attended an advanced poetry writing class with Loughner at Pima Community College last spring. Though he struck up a passing friendship with Loughner, he said a group of other students went to the teacher to complain about Loughner at one point.


Another poetry student, Don Coorough, said Loughner read a poem about bland tasks such as showering, going to the gym and riding the bus in wild "poetry slam" style – "grabbing his crotch and jumping around the room."


When other students, always seated, read their poems, Coorough said Loughner "would laugh at things that you wouldn't laugh at." After one woman read a poem about abortion, "he was turning all shades of red and laughing," and said, "Wow, she's just like a terrorist, she killed a baby," Coorough said.


"He appeared to be to me an emotional cripple or an emotional child," Coorough said.



"He lacked compassion, he lacked understanding and he lacked an ability to connect."
Cates said Loughner "didn't have the social intelligence, but he definitely had the academic intelligence."


"He was very into the knowledge aspect of school. He was really into his philosophy classes and he was really into logic and English. And he would get frustrated by the dumbed-down words people used in class," Cates said.


Loughner expressed his interest in grammar and logic on the Internet as he made bizarre claims – such as that the Mars rover and the space shuttle missions were faked.


He frequently used "if-then" constructions in making nonsensical arguments. For instance: "If the living space is able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F then the human body is alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. The human body isn't alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. Thus, the living space isn't able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F."


Loughner also said in one video that government is "implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." He described America's laws as "treasonous" and said that "every human who's mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency."


Loughner described himself as a U.S. military recruit in the video, but the Army released a statement ssying he tried to enlist but was rejected. The statement said under federal privacy law, no reason could be specified.


In October 2007, Loughner was cited in Pima County for possession of drug paraphernalia, which was dismissed after he completed a diversion program, according to online records.


A year later he was charged with an unknown "local charge" in Marana near Tucson. That charge was also dismissed following the completion of a diversion program in March 2009, the Arizona Daily Star reported.


"He has kind of a troubled past, I can tell you that," Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said.

this could have been avoided if his parents had sought the psychological help he clearly needed. this could have been avoided if he sought the help himself.

in any case, he had a long standing grudge, it seems, against giffords. what i can say with confidence is that the crafty rhetoric insinuating violence towards elected officials during 2010 DID NOT HELP.

also, if palin's crosshair map was such an innocent little thing, why did she remove it as soon as this tragedy happened?

if the right feels no guilt about their incendiary words, why are they suddenly so defensive? why did they decry sheriff dupnik's words, even though he mentioned no party by name?

these are all physical manifestations of a guilty soul, whether what they did had any part in pushing loughner to the edge or not.

we don't need to limit first or second amendment freedoms at all, we just need to be a little more responsible about how we use them. hopefully, right or left, we can take that lesson out of this tragedy

 

[UncleBuck]

Palin didn’t tell the guy to do what he did HE chose to commit the act own his own.

true, but the rhetoric from her and others surely didn't help unlight any fuses. just the opposite, rather.

 

[UncleBuck]

Now let's stop pretending this is something NEW.

Or that this is something strictly limited to the Right.

let's stop pretending like the level the right took the rhetoric to in 2010 wasn't something new.

or that the left came anywhere close to matching the rhetoric, especially at the highest levels of the campaign trail.

 

[doc111]

Come on..dude it comes a time when a man/woman has to say damn I'm/we are wrong... Its the Sheriff job to serve and protect...to maintain peace...if he is letting everyone know to calm the phuck down then guess what...he maintaining that peace...Oh but sense he not saying what you want to hear then now he leaning left ..WTF..Like I said before some people so blind they don't want to see the lesson in this....STOP THE HATE TALK...we can disagree without wanting to kill each other or innocent children... STOP THE HATE TALK...a nut could be listening to you

Who defines "Hate Talk"? Don't "Come on dude" me! I don't subscribe to either party's nonsense. I have many LEO's in the family and I know the Sherrif of my county personally. He would tell you the same things I did. That serve and protect shit.............the police don't prevent crime. Sure, they have classes and lectures about personal security and the like, but they can't arrest you because you might do something bad. If I make a threat, I've broken the law. If this kid made a threat and the police didn't do something about it then shame on them. I won't be dragged into your political finger wagging. Both sides are equally to blame IMO. Limiting free speech doesn't solve a thing and may actually cause more problems in the long run. I'm a personal responsiblity guy though, so go figure.

 

[doc111]

not quite, doc.

first, this was CLEARLY a politically motivated killing.

second, it wasn't just as simple as 'he is a nutjob, a psycho murderer'. if i had to register a guess, i would say he was slowly developing schizophrenia, based on what i can decipher and his age (early 20's is basically prime time for onset). in any case, i don't think an insanity plea will work, he did plan this in advance, there is plenty of evidence to make that claim.



this could have been avoided if his parents had sought the psychological help he clearly needed. this could have been avoided if he sought the help himself.

in any case, he had a long standing grudge, it seems, against giffords. what i can say with confidence is that the crafty rhetoric insinuating violence towards elected officials during 2010 DID NOT HELP.

also, if palin's crosshair map was such an innocent little thing, why did she remove it as soon as this tragedy happened?

if the right feels no guilt about their incendiary words, why are they suddenly so defensive? why did they decry sheriff dupnik's words, even though he mentioned no party by name?

these are all physical manifestations of a guilty soul, whether what they did had any part in pushing loughner to the edge or not.

we don't need to limit first or second amendment freedoms at all, we just need to be a little more responsible about how we use them. hopefully, right or left, we can take that lesson out of this tragedy

just

 

[UncleBuck]

In answer to you question, of course it's okay. The First Amendment says it is.

you're right, the first amendment allows us to say a lot of crazy shit that no one should ever say.

for example, i could start a website posting the personal information of people who i consider enemies, replete with insinuations on the best way to kill them. they could be just vague enough to meet the 'fire in a crowded theater' criteria.

but i should probably not do that.

that would apply doubly if i had a national audience, like say, someone running for senate.

with freedom comes responsibility.

 

[UncleBuck]

I noticed that nobody had ANYTHING at all to say about the DEMOCRATIC target lists.

you mean the 1 and 6 year old lists? you mean the ones that were not published by a political celebrity who also clamored "don't retreat, INSTEAD, reload!". who then wrote "In the battle, set your sights on next season’s targets! From the shot across the bow – the first second’s tip-off – your leaders will be in the enemy’s crosshairs*, so you must execute strong defensive tactics. You won’t win only playing defense, so get on offense! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons – your Big Guns – to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember it takes blood, sweat and tears to win."

how the heck were THOSE not relevant?

context, johnny. context.

 

[UncleBuck]

just your normal, run of the mill tea party event. no attempt at all to associate removing gabrielle giffords from office using an automatic weapon. nope, none at all. simply an illusion. a pure illusion.

 

[UncleBuck]

just

not sure what i did to incur the wrath of the rolling eyes, i thought this was a pretty fair take on the new information being revealed about loughner.

maybe you just need a

better now?

 

[londonfog]

if anyone can show me how the left incited violence like the right please do..I really need to see you guys point because right now i don't..yeah you might have some crazy on the left can't deny that you have crazy on both sides, but I never seen politician carry on with such nonsense as the likes of Michelle Bachman, Sara Palin, Sharron Angle. now you people act like that kind of crap does not have an after affect..WTF..You have people like Rush and Glenn who just try to scare the shit out of people everyday...and now you say "oh no its not that he was just crazy"..duhhh we know he was crazy, but now you just gave a crazy person a reason and justification to now go crazy with a mission...This guy was anti goverment from his writings..now who the phuck talks all this anti goverment shit...who????Well I guess if the ballots don't work bullets will thats your thinking..WTF... but anywoot you people will never admit your wrong and thats exactly why this counrty is going down the freakin drain..WAKE THE PHUCK UP

 

[londonfog]

View attachment 1373981
just your normal, run of the mill tea party event. No attempt at all to associate removing gabrielle giffords from office using an automatic weapon. Nope, none at all. Simply an illusion. A pure illusion.

wow ...now she shot in the head

 

[UncleBuck]

wow ...now she shot in the head

yes, but it happened with a semi automatic weapon. so this clearly makes jesse kelly as innocent as a newborn baby, since he talked about a fully automatic weapon

 

[UncleBuck]

Loughner might, by chance, have been completely unaware of the climate in his hometown. Or he might have been steeped in it. The point is that the climate is dangerous, in Arizona and elsewhere, and the shootings ought to have prompted its purveyors to step back and do some hard thinking. As David Frum wrote yesterday: “This talk did not cause this crime. But this crime should summon us to some reflection on this talk. Better: This crime should summon us to a quiet collective resolution to cease this kind of talk and to cease to indulge those who engage in it.” That was the point of my post, and it’s remarkable that Frum seems to be the only conservative who’s had the courage to say anything like it (other than one Republican senator, who, not so courageously, requested anonymity). At a minimum, human decency should have led Sarah Palin to express regret for the dog whistle she directed against Gabrielle Giffords, among others. Instead, in Palinland and across the right, the attitude has been: Never apologize. But this has been the right’s attitude throughout the Obama era, with considerable political success, and I don’t expect this tragedy to bring a change.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2011/01/tucson-revisited.html#ixzz1AfmEq5Bx
​

 

[londonfog]

^^^^^ have to agree ^^^^^

 

[PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1]

Braking "Fox New's",,,He was described as a "Left Wing Liberal",,,Ya Right.

 

[doc111]

not sure what i did to incur the wrath of the rolling eyes, i thought this was a pretty fair take on the new information being revealed about loughner.

maybe you just need a

better now?

I won't turn this into a political witch hunt. You have fun with that though. I think it is enormously disrespectful to the victims. In fact, I just listened to an interview on NPR with a former math teacher at a community college he attended. The teacher said the guy was disturbed and had to be removed from the class for remarks he made (none of which were political in nature). He had another student fear for her life. He was told he could be re-admitted to the college after he was cleared by a psychiatrist and found to "not be a danger to others or himself". He never returned with that doctor's note. I see a lot of people in this thread ignoring the evidence. Both sides are guilty, period! Again, how is "measuring" who is more guilty productive? It's not! If it's not one thing setting these disturbed individuals off, it's another. Violent music, video games, movies, tv shows, I could go on. Let's go ahead and remove Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, any of the right wing pundits you disagree with, let's just pull the plug on all their shows. You're 100% right Buck! It's only the right who uses "hate talk" and "inciteful speech". I'm just going to go ahead and agree with all you lefties so we can at least move on. This is America people! Bad shit happens! You can blame the guns, blame the right, blame tv, movies, video games, heavy metal music.............blame whatever you like if it makes you feel better. Whatever you do, don't put the blame where it mostly belongs; with the guy who pulled the trigger! Oh no! Don't do that! We can't have people held responsible for their own actions now can we? That would be crazy!


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/10/132810483/loughner-social-outcast-with-indecipherable-beliefs

 

[Johnnyorganic]

show me a picture being endorsed by former democratic vice-presidential candidates which show conservative/republican politicians pictures with a crosshairs superimposed on the image.

you can't, because the ones implying you should shoot some motherfuckers are crazy right-wingers.

that's the truth, you know it.

Here's some truth for you.

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun...."

Made by none other than the Chosen One himself.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Now I think we can all agree he is speaking metaphorically. Too bad certain partisan whiney-pussies can't extend the same ratonale to the opposite side of the isle.

The Messiah was not talking about actual firearms any more those Democratic campaign documents were. Or any more than SarahPac did in that literature.

The TRUTH is you all desperately WISH this to be connected to the Right.

And wishing don't make it so.