The Poorhouse: Aunt Winnie, Glenn Beck, And The Politics Of The New Deal

[UncleBuck]

So then shouldn't the government then subsidize all those people who lost their dignity due to the big banks malfeasance? I mean all those people who have had their homes foreclosed on because they stopped making payments, shouldn't government make all those payments for them? I Mean after all how can we as a nation sit around in our nice warm homes and NOT think of the poor children who are kicked to the curb every year because poor mommy can't pay for that breast cancer she has. She will get treated, but shes gonna have to give up the home to live. No one ever thinks about the children who are all going to end up as either pimps or hookers or strippers or bachi baza boys. That's what happens to kids who lose their dignity.

sorry, i am not financial savvy enough to know the implications of all that...

what i do know is that access to affordable health care should be standard operating procedure in a nation as prominent as ours.

i will use peer pressure: everyone else is doing it, thus we should too.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

So your whole angle is to hog health coverage from the less fortunate, and use sideways comparisons that only relate on the shallowest of levels? You attack for for being rhetorical, setting up straw men, not using data, using data, so on and so forth, and this is the best YOU can do? At least I gave you the undeserved decency of trying to make my argument shed light on something that is real.

Mortgages and health care are two different things. Your whole dignity argument is an attempt to further muddy this discussion and weigh it down with third wheel subjectivist doctrine.
Talk about health care. Theres a difference between not making payments you signed up for, and not having health care from either a) being priced out b) unemployed c) pre-existing condition d) retired e) Employer cut benefits f) what have you. The difference is that defaulting on a mortgage means I have to find a quick apartment, or a place to live pronto, not having health coverage means my families life is at risk at any given moment, be it from illness, injury, condition, whatever. The other difference is that a house is only worth so much. You know its valuation, even with a ballooning interest rate, its still quantifiable. A house could cost 500K, a health procedure could cost the rest of your lifes income for a middle class family.

Shame on a country that puts its citizens in a position to choose between bankruptcy (Your Uncle is lucky to say the least, and you know it) and the well being of a loved one. Fucking criminal. Who wouldn't make that bet? Imagine the feeling of the loved one with the problem, knowing that your life has destroyed the future of your families for nothing in your control.

No thats no problem. People with dignity never have to face such consequences.

I suppose I am an over compassionate bleeding heart liberal cuz I think that the greatest nation with the largest economy on the planet should take care of its people, as its people take care of it. As all other industrialized nations do. Wow, I'm a doped up radical ain't I? Who would ever want to lessen the burden on the average American family, business, and debt? What a reckless dreamer. God help the people who want to provide a means to a life necessity to other humans.

Take your dignity speak elsewhere, in this forum I see that most of us have ours and manage not to flaunt what "we" call dignity in each other's face like we were someones over tired father. Dignity is relative individual life struggles, thats why you don't see people going around preaching about it without sounding like a self important jackass.

So then shouldn't the government then subsidize all those people who lost their dignity due to the big banks malfeasance? I mean all those people who have had their homes foreclosed on because they stopped making payments, shouldn't government make all those payments for them? I Mean after all how can we as a nation sit around in our nice warm homes and NOT think of the poor children who are kicked to the curb every year because poor mommy can't pay for that breast cancer she has. She will get treated, but shes gonna have to give up the home to live. No one ever thinks about the children who are all going to end up as either pimps or hookers or strippers or bachi baza boys. That's what happens to kids who lose their dignity.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

You know what? I'm not fucking done either...
Look how spectacular you are...The all humble poor man, that recognizes "whats mine is mine" and add to it his meaning of dignity, which, although he doesn't come out and say it, he believes himself to be so dignified.

Clearly he is the judge of who is and isn't dignified, he can accurately brand people with his sharp intellect and judgmental reasoning. He can bestow upon his fellow citizens whether they are his dignified peers, or whether they are the undignified untouchables. Not to be outdone however, he can feel "empathy" towards those who haven't traveled down the well marked path to dignity far enough to be worthy of his respect. With views and reasoning like that, why should such a well put together dignified person have to help an "untouchable"?

It's actually sad that you are serious.

To attain fucking goals...Do you even know what a fucking goal is? Here's a good example of a goal: Fucking breathing in an asthma attack without the proper medical care. You can ask my family when I was unemployed. You can ask millions of people what it is like right now today if you wanted to. Ask them how it feels to be a productive member of this society that could die, or ruin their life, at any given moment because they are not "dignified" enough. Maybe then you'll find out that they are dignified. You can then tell them that they can take solace in the fact that they at least have their dignity, even though their life is ruined or over due to preventable circumstances. You can look that dignified, dying person in the eye, and tell them that in America, unlike every other industrialized in the western world, health care is not a right. You can give them your whole bloated constitutional shit sandwich.

In short you can take your holier than thou, white trash, horse shit speak and bring it to your next irate town hall where you can personally eat from Ron Paul's asshole, and compare how much more dignified you are to all the other "fellow citizens" who disagree, and want the government to pay for their boo boos. The greedy undignified scum of the earth, always wanting more of your pie.

Until that cherishing moment in your bleak self righteous life, let people who actually respectfully disagree on one another's decisions debate openly without having to hear about what you think dignity is and attaining goals means.

Try this on for size:
Dignity is having respect for others and their views, as much as you have for yourself and yours.
Oh look I just lost mine...

Borderline Psycopath is another made up malady, just like mean world syndrome. Just how much does your wife contribute to your remarks anyway? You think I don't have empathy for an individuals situation? Of course I do, but I don't believe it is governments position to be taxing us or telling us that we have to contribute to the less well off people. Medicine man would consider me poor as a mouse, yet here I am standing up for what is right. Whats mine is mine.

Dignity is the quality one deems himself to be worthy of respect. Respect for ones self does not come from having government provided medical insurance, it comes from self discipline, effort to attain goals, and the ability to pick yourself up off the ground and get back on that horse. You can fail at everything you do and still have dignity, its not something you can barter for, you have to earn it for yourself.

 

[NLXSK1]

Dignity is how you represent yourself. It comes from self respect.

The government never *GAVE* anyone dignity.

 

[doc111]

on that particular remark, nothing. when i get back from my game of poker and grab her dsm iv to look up the diagnosis for 'anti social personality disorder', aka psychopathy, i will credit her with an assist.

and just like psychopathy is a 'linguistic shorthand' of sorts for an actual malady called antisocial personality disorder, which is no more than meeting a certain number of diagnosable criteria over a certain timeframe, 'mean world syndrome' is just linguistic shorthand for meeting certain criteria of an actual personality disorder, or malady.

just because you think nothing of it does not make it any less real.

dignity may not be born out of having access to affordable health care, but it is a little tougher to have dignity when you are one illness away from bankruptcy.

With or without insurance, we are ALL only one illness/injury away from bankruptcy.

Nothing Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and their band of progressive 'merry men' have done is going to change that.

 

[doc111]

So your whole angle is to hog health coverage from the less fortunate, and use sideways comparisons that only relate on the shallowest of levels? You attack for for being rhetorical, setting up straw men, not using data, using data, so on and so forth, and this is the best YOU can do? At least I gave you the undeserved decency of trying to make my argument shed light on something that is real.

Mortgages and health care are two different things. Your whole dignity argument is an attempt to further muddy this discussion and weigh it down with third wheel subjectivist doctrine.
Talk about health care. Theres a difference between not making payments you signed up for, and not having health care from either a) being priced out b) unemployed c) pre-existing condition d) retired e) Employer cut benefits f) what have you. The difference is that defaulting on a mortgage means I have to find a quick apartment, or a place to live pronto, not having health coverage means my families life is at risk at any given moment, be it from illness, injury, condition, whatever. The other difference is that a house is only worth so much. You know its valuation, even with a ballooning interest rate, its still quantifiable. A house could cost 500K, a health procedure could cost the rest of your lifes income for a middle class family.

Shame on a country that puts its citizens in a position to choose between bankruptcy (Your Uncle is lucky to say the least, and you know it) and the well being of a loved one. Fucking criminal. Who wouldn't make that bet? Imagine the feeling of the loved one with the problem, knowing that your life has destroyed the future of your families for nothing in your control.

No thats no problem. People with dignity never have to face such consequences.

I suppose I am an over compassionate bleeding heart liberal cuz I think that the greatest nation with the largest economy on the planet should take care of its people, as its people take care of it. As all other industrialized nations do. Wow, I'm a doped up radical ain't I? Who would ever want to lessen the burden on the average American family, business, and debt? What a reckless dreamer. God help the people who want to provide a means to a life necessity to other humans.

Take your dignity speak elsewhere, in this forum I see that most of us have ours and manage not to flaunt what "we" call dignity in each other's face like we were someones over tired father. Dignity is relative individual life struggles, thats why you don't see people going around preaching about it without sounding like a self important jackass.

Are they? I only am going to address this one part of your very lengthy post because the rest is just, well, not worth it. *Sigh*

Who decides these things? How long will it be until housing becomes a 'basic human right'? Look, in a perfect world everybody would have the best, unlimited healthcare and a McMansion to live in. This ain't a perfect world my friend. You have deflected, set up more strawmen than I care to count, and whined everytime you've been backed into a corner. Stop thinking of this as an "adversarial" process. We are all on the same team here! We all want the same things! Stop trying to make libertarians and conservatives out to be heartless, selfish, psychopaths! We are not! Of course there will be a few fringe elements in every group. We've come almost full circle in our logic here and we could certainly keep going around and around forever. That solves nothing. The point that was trying to be made by NoDrama is pretty clear to me. Just a couple of decades ago, socialized medicine wasn't talked about very seriously in this country. Perhaps it was because it was more affordable, I don't really know. Perhaps it was because it went against every fiber of our collective being. We get back into the slippery slope argument. If healthcare becomes a "basic human right", then what next? Is the government going to see to it that everybody has the same food? That's more of a human right than medical care IMO. Housing, I think is more of a "basic human right" than medical care. You may go your whole life without ever getting a major illness or injury, but you damn sure need a roof over your head! There are many reasons why WE are opposed to socialized medicine. They have been laid out numerous times and I have a feeling you know exactly what those arguments are. You may not agree with them but they are serious concerns and like it or not, Obamacare may have some very serious problems. Most of it hasn't even taken effect and we are already feeling the shockwave rippling through the landscape.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

The difference is this, which I already addressed and you carefully ignored.

Housing is planned up, agreed upon and is available from a wide range of sources for a wide range of prices. There is public housing, there has been for over a century, bit late to fly that flag.

No one has to has a $500,000 house to live to see tomorrow, or to maintain a basic quality of life. People need $500,000 leukemia treatments to see the next day or week sometimes. Theres the HUGE flaw in your argument. Housing is indeed important, problem is that we don't have 50 million homeless people in the US, we have 50 million uninsured people in the US. The problem isn't that when someone is without a house, and steps into one without paying, you and I don't pay for it. The problem is that when an uninsured person steps into a hospital for a preventable condition, you and I do pay for it. The problem isn't that my employer bares the burden of providing my housing, the problem is that my employer bares the burden and cost of my health coverage.

I don't see how your argument holds any water at all. Housing and health care ARE two different things. A house is a belonging, therefore it can be substituted, fabricated, and/or replaced, a family members health and life, along with your own, cannot be. Socialized medicine huh? Yeah, every public/private multi-payer universal health care system is some real Ray Bradbury shit isn't it?

This is the fatal flaw with people scared of "obamacare" (Did you have to pay Fox news or the RNC to use that line?). They are holding the country back as a whole. I hear a bunch of prodding arguments about "Well, it used to be that health care was...", or "You used to be able to see the doctor for...", "Why can't it just go back to the way it was?". Heres the short answer: Things have radically changed since the days of our memories. First of all, health technology world wide is beyond what any of us can comprehend, that brings huge costs, and huge benefits. Secondly, the only people making money back then were doctors, and medicine companies, and they weren't raking it in like they are now. Third of all, people live longer now, and need to be taken care of after employment has ended. Fourth of all, we spend more than any other country on Earth, 16% of our GDP on health care, and get crap results in return, and manage to forget to cover a population larger than all of South Africa within our own nation. Fifth of all it is nationally assumed that health coverage must be provided by your employer, Do I need to continue cuz I can make a day of this...Things are very different now. It is called progress, nations do it all the time when they learn that people enjoy doing better as time goes on. No one gets happy with taking steps back.

I don't find those "opposing view" concerns serious, I find peoples life and health serious, much more serious than small political views and money woes. I find the concerns of my oppositions view founded in fear, and falsehood (note no one has addressed anything factual I have posted, which throws me into the realm of the subjective, in which ANYTHING could be a strawman based on perspective). And although you say it is not true, I find those concerns cold, heartless, and Unamerican. Saying you are sympathetic, and not heartless is easy. Donating to St. Judes doesn't mean you are free from that label however. Actually caring enough to change the way the country works, regardless of how scared you are serious about compassion and solving a problem. (yes, you all are responding to fear in the argument). All I have seen your side do I avoid addressing the problem altogether. Completely. Tort reform, yes, we got it, over and over, thats a small part of it, even though it is a lot of money. But shit, theres a reason you all are avoiding the big picture, cuz its only solution is one you don't agree with, and you would rather live with the problem, cuz as the chips stand, you are a benefactor.

Heres what you don't understand at all. It is going to happen, universal health care is inevitable. The health care reform bill is judicially fine, and can only be repealed by an up or down vote in congress with a willing president. You are all in a state of anger and panic due to those facts because you can do nothing about it. Delaying the inevitable is terrible for our nation and hurting every aspect of our society. Your straw man called "freedom" never really existed the way you speak of it anyway. What's good for the gander is good for the goose as well.

Are they? I only am going to address this one part of your very lengthy post because the rest is just, well, not worth it. *Sigh*

Who decides these things? How long will it be until housing becomes a 'basic human right'? Look, in a perfect world everybody would have the best, unlimited healthcare and a McMansion to live in. This ain't a perfect world my friend. You have deflected, set up more strawmen than I care to count, and whined everytime you've been backed into a corner. Stop thinking of this as an "adversarial" process. We are all on the same team here! We all want the same things! Stop trying to make libertarians and conservatives out to be heartless, selfish, psychopaths! We are not! Of course there will be a few fringe elements in every group. We've come almost full circle in our logic here and we could certainly keep going around and around forever. That solves nothing. The point that was trying to be made by NoDrama is pretty clear to me. Just a couple of decades ago, socialized medicine wasn't talked about very seriously in this country. Perhaps it was because it was more affordable, I don't really know. Perhaps it was because it went against every fiber of our collective being. We get back into the slippery slope argument. If healthcare becomes a "basic human right", then what next? Is the government going to see to it that everybody has the same food? That's more of a human right than medical care IMO. Housing, I think is more of a "basic human right" than medical care. You may go your whole life without ever getting a major illness or injury, but you damn sure need a roof over your head! There are many reasons why WE are opposed to socialized medicine. They have been laid out numerous times and I have a feeling you know exactly what those arguments are. You may not agree with them but they are serious concerns and like it or not, Obamacare may have some very serious problems. Most of it hasn't even taken effect and we are already feeling the shockwave rippling through the landscape.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

I don't think that dignity and health care are terribly intertwined.
Thats good fiction.

Dignity is how you represent yourself. It comes from self respect.

The government never *GAVE* anyone dignity.

 

[NLXSK1]

You threw so much wrong shit into that post it would exhaust me to point it all out.

*It has became nationally assumed that business must provide healthcare*

Really? Where is that in the constitution? You dont just suddenly gain rights when people demand them. I reject your premise.

*universal healthcare is inevitable* I reject your premise. This is like when Algore pronounced that *The global warming debate is over*..

*Third of all, people live longer now, and need to be taken care of after employment has ended. * I reject your premise. I want people to plan and save money so that they can take care of themselves and their families. They might be able to do that if their taxes were not so damn high!!

We are over 14 trillion dollars in debt but you are not worried about our money woes... Well Okey dokey then!!! If money didnt matter in this pie in the sky program I might just be skipping down the yellow brick road with you dorothy but... I am not interested in jumping off the cliff we are headed towards...

 

[doc111]

The difference is this, which I already addressed and you carefully ignored.

Housing is planned up, agreed upon and is available from a wide range of sources for a wide range of prices. There is public housing, there has been for over a century, bit late to fly that flag.

No one has to has a $500,000 house to live to see tomorrow, or to maintain a basic quality of life. People need $500,000 leukemia treatments to see the next day or week sometimes. Theres the HUGE flaw in your argument. Housing is indeed important, problem is that we don't have 50 million homeless people in the US, we have 50 million uninsured people in the US. The problem isn't that when someone is without a house, and steps into one without paying, you and I don't pay for it. The problem is that when an uninsured person steps into a hospital for a preventable condition, you and I do pay for it. The problem isn't that my employer bares the burden of providing my housing, the problem is that my employer bares the burden and cost of my health coverage.

I don't see how your argument holds any water at all. Housing and health care ARE two different things. A house is a belonging, therefore it can be substituted, fabricated, and/or replaced, a family members health and life, along with your own, cannot be. Socialized medicine huh? Yeah, every public/private multi-payer universal health care system is some real Ray Bradbury shit isn't it?

This is the fatal flaw with people scared of "obamacare" (Did you have to pay Fox news or the RNC to use that line?). They are holding the country back as a whole. I hear a bunch of prodding arguments about "Well, it used to be that health care was...", or "You used to be able to see the doctor for...", "Why can't it just go back to the way it was?". Heres the short answer: Things have radically changed since the days of our memories. First of all, health technology world wide is beyond what any of us can comprehend, that brings huge costs, and huge benefits. Secondly, the only people making money back then were doctors, and medicine companies, and they weren't raking it in like they are now. Third of all, people live longer now, and need to be taken care of after employment has ended. Fourth of all, we spend more than any other country on Earth, 16% of our GDP on health care, and get crap results in return, and manage to forget to cover a population larger than all of South Africa within our own nation. Fifth of all it is nationally assumed that health coverage must be provided by your employer, Do I need to continue cuz I can make a day of this...Things are very different now. It is called progress, nations do it all the time when they learn that people enjoy doing better as time goes on. No one gets happy with taking steps back.

I don't find those "opposing view" concerns serious, I find peoples life and health serious, much more serious than small political views and money woes. I find the concerns of my oppositions view founded in fear, and falsehood (note no one has addressed anything factual I have posted, which throws me into the realm of the subjective, in which ANYTHING could be a strawman based on perspective). And although you say it is not true, I find those concerns cold, heartless, and Unamerican. Saying you are sympathetic, and not heartless is easy. Donating to St. Judes doesn't mean you are free from that label however. Actually caring enough to change the way the country works, regardless of how scared you are serious about compassion and solving a problem. (yes, you all are responding to fear in the argument). All I have seen your side do I avoid addressing the problem altogether. Completely. Tort reform, yes, we got it, over and over, thats a small part of it, even though it is a lot of money. But shit, theres a reason you all are avoiding the big picture, cuz its only solution is one you don't agree with, and you would rather live with the problem, cuz as the chips stand, you are a benefactor.

Heres what you don't understand at all. It is going to happen, universal health care is inevitable. The health care reform bill is judicially fine, and can only be repealed by an up or down vote in congress with a willing president. You are all in a state of anger and panic due to those facts because you can do nothing about it. Delaying the inevitable is terrible for our nation and hurting every aspect of our society. Your straw man called "freedom" never really existed the way you speak of it anyway. What's good for the gander is good for the goose as well.

See, there you go picking and choosing what YOU deem important! I don't "carefully ignore" anything. I respond to the points I CHOOSE to address and the others..............well, some of those points just get politely overlooked. Besides, have you addressed every single point brought up by me or NoDrama, or NLXSK1? Didn't think so. I don't understand why some people get so huffy over nothing. This is a debate. Nobody is taking your birthday away from you. If you don't like the tone of the debate, simply ignore or don't respond! It's really that simple!

Your argument is that there aren't 50 million homeless people in the country but there are 50 million uninsured so that somehow makes insuring those people more important?????????? I reject what you are trying to pass off as logic! This is the problem. You are never going to have everyone agree with you. And trust me! There are a shitload who disagree with you and your progressive cronies! It's nothing personal. It's that we (the opposition) don't see universal healthcare as sustainable. We don't see wealth redistribution as the answer. How is making a bunch more people dependent on the government for something like healthcare gong to fix anything? It doesn't! It will create a whole host of NEW problems and by most accounts will do little to solve the current ones! The way the law is written simply doesn't make sense! Fining people for not having health insurance??????? And the fines are way cheaper than actually having insurance! Are you all nuts???? How can any half educated person not see the enormous flaw with it????? And all the other things that go along with it like not being able to be denied coverage. It makes it not only easy for people to defraud the system, it makes it inevitable. And we aren't talking normal fraud that takes place with anything, we are talking on a massive scale! These are supposedly very intelligent people who wrote this bill! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this shit out my friend! Just because something sounds good on the surface doesn't mean it won't have numerous problems. Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I just wanted to add that you can take your Fox news comment and shove it you know where! I'm so sick of liberals using that one. It's tired, just like blaming George W. Bush for everything. I'm not a republican and I don't watch Fox news. I'm am not a republican and have never really been one. I did go through a period in my life where I drank the kool-aid and thought the republican ideology was the better one. The liberal phase of my life actually lasted much longer. I've voted for far more dems than repubs. Not that I'm proud of it but it is what it is. I could just as easily turn the tables and throw MSNBC or DNC at you but you won't see me doing that. It's childish and IMO a desperate act of one who's been backed into a corner. When you learn to debate like an adult I may come back. Until then, I'm done discussing this matter with you. And for the record, I don't need you or anybody telling me what I do or don't understand. You don't know the first thing about me other than that which I've already told you. Good day to you sir.

 

[NoDrama]

So your whole angle is to hog health coverage from the less fortunate, and use sideways comparisons that only relate on the shallowest of levels? You attack for for being rhetorical, setting up straw men, not using data, using data, so on and so forth, and this is the best YOU can do? At least I gave you the undeserved decency of trying to make my argument shed light on something that is real.

Mortgages and health care are two different things. Your whole dignity argument is an attempt to further muddy this discussion and weigh it down with third wheel subjectivist doctrine.
Talk about health care. Theres a difference between not making payments you signed up for, and not having health care from either a) being priced out b) unemployed c) pre-existing condition d) retired e) Employer cut benefits f) what have you. The difference is that defaulting on a mortgage means I have to find a quick apartment, or a place to live pronto, not having health coverage means my families life is at risk at any given moment, be it from illness, injury, condition, whatever. The other difference is that a house is only worth so much. You know its valuation, even with a ballooning interest rate, its still quantifiable. A house could cost 500K, a health procedure could cost the rest of your lifes income for a middle class family.

Shame on a country that puts its citizens in a position to choose between bankruptcy (Your Uncle is lucky to say the least, and you know it) and the well being of a loved one. Fucking criminal. Who wouldn't make that bet? Imagine the feeling of the loved one with the problem, knowing that your life has destroyed the future of your families for nothing in your control.

No thats no problem. People with dignity never have to face such consequences.

I suppose I am an over compassionate bleeding heart liberal cuz I think that the greatest nation with the largest economy on the planet should take care of its people, as its people take care of it. As all other industrialized nations do. Wow, I'm a doped up radical ain't I? Who would ever want to lessen the burden on the average American family, business, and debt? What a reckless dreamer. God help the people who want to provide a means to a life necessity to other humans.

Take your dignity speak elsewhere, in this forum I see that most of us have ours and manage not to flaunt what "we" call dignity in each other's face like we were someones over tired father. Dignity is relative individual life struggles, thats why you don't see people going around preaching about it without sounding like a self important jackass.

I didn't bring up the Dignity argument, UB did, so shove it up your ass.

 

[NoDrama]

The difference is this, which I already addressed and you carefully ignored.

Housing is planned up, agreed upon and is available from a wide range of sources for a wide range of prices. There is public housing, there has been for over a century, bit late to fly that flag.

Please explain to all these people in the tent city in Sacramento, where all the public housing is. Cuz they aren't getting it.

These hundreds of families have lost their homes and have nowhere else to go, the gubbermint isn't giving them shit, so your point is moot.


This isn't the only tent city either, there are hundreds of these places in every large population center in the USA.

[video=youtube;obho7uBg3-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obho7uBg3-A&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Do you know why Government cannot provide all of these people with homes? NO MONEY!! Yet YOU still think they can provide health care. Mathematically impossible.

Watch the video, some of these people are being housed by LOCAL CHARITIES.

 

[NoDrama]

Housing is indeed important, problem is that we don't have 50 million homeless people in the US, we have 50 million uninsured people in the US. The problem isn't that when someone is without a house, and steps into one without paying, you and I don't pay for it.

You do pay for it, If your a neighbor to a bunch of people who are kicked out of their home, your property loses its value very quickly. Or haven't you been paying attention to what started this whole economic downturn?

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Way to address health care with tents to justify health cares failure.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

We're talking liquid cash here, not prop values. The hospitals hit us back for actual money, not valuations. When my neighbor gets kicked out, my housing value doesn't decrease by his housing value, and my bank account stays the same, its not real money like health care is. When the house is sold, guess what housing values back up! That uncovered ER visit never ends up paying for itself in the future. Try to keep it apples and apples.

You do pay for it, If your a neighbor to a bunch of people who are kicked out of their home, your property loses its value very quickly. Or haven't you been paying attention to what started this whole economic downturn?

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

So this is hard evidence that public housing doesn't exist?? Looks to me that it is hard evidence of people living in tents. I bet they would love heath care too.

Please explain to all these people in the tent city in Sacramento, where all the public housing is. Cuz they aren't getting it.

These hundreds of families have lost their homes and have nowhere else to go, the gubbermint isn't giving them shit, so your point is moot.


This isn't the only tent city either, there are hundreds of these places in every large population center in the USA.

[video=youtube;obho7uBg3-A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obho7uBg3-A&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Do you know why Government cannot provide all of these people with homes? NO MONEY!! Yet YOU still think they can provide health care. Mathematically impossible.

Watch the video, some of these people are being housed by LOCAL CHARITIES.

 

[NoDrama]

Way to address health care with tents to justify health cares failure.

Way to deflect, its a response to YOUR ARGUMENT!!!!! Hence YOUR QUOTE!!

 

[NoDrama]

We're talking liquid cash here, not prop values. The hospitals hit us back for actual money, not valuations. When my neighbor gets kicked out, my housing value doesn't decrease by his housing value, and my bank account stays the same, its not real money like health care is. When the house is sold, guess what housing values back up! That uncovered ER visit never ends up paying for itself in the future. Try to keep it apples and apples.

Never heard of HELOC I assume then eh? People's houses were like ATM machines for many.

So lets say every person in America puts their house up for sale. Will prices go up or down? Think carefully.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I will start at the beginning of your word-sharting so I do not wander in the middle of the conversation elsewhere.

The rich aint the rich that they used to be charlie. The rich are now UBER rich. 1% of just one of their incomes could probably sustain this entire forums population for a year.

The rich pay the most taxes, too.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The rich got much more richer, and we are now learning that the ultra rich, just want to get...richer. There is only so much money, and the more that they get, the less there is on the free market. Why is that? cuz they ain't spending any more. The upper tax brackets income and wealth has increased at a phenomenal rate of growth, while their spending has flat-lined.

Thanks to Progressive tax schemes the rich as a class is actually shrinking.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted. You are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/12/class_warriors_got_what_they_w.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/12/13/are-we-too-dependent-on-rich-taxpayers/

Greenspan himself and Reagan finance advisers all now unanimously admit that trickle down economics have failed.

Just to clear things up for you, what the Reagan era advisers are saying that Reagan fucked up because he did not reign in spending in conjunction with the tax cuts.
http://reason.com/blog/2011/01/03/ronald-reagan-ron-paul-the-fed

That is why you are insane. Instead of mandating a portion of their money from taxes, you actually expect the rich to give it to you?? Redistribution of wealth is a real consideration, especially if you see the income gap as a tremendous problem as I do. If you are really really really really rich, you can spare some more than I can in the middle class. 2% high tax rate won't keep them from buying a car, a house, or food. It does for me.

The middle class tax cut argument is bullshit.

If the middle class were really in the heart of the Democratic party, the middle class tax cuts could have been voted on, passed, and signed into law a year ago. Thus making it virtually impossible to pass the tax cuts for the hated rich in December of last year.

So, if the middle class is so near and dear to the hearts of Democrats; why did they not pass the middle class tax cuts when they had the chance?

You sir are the one jaded by this whole free market, McCarthyist, dream that is funded by the rich, for the rich, and by the rich. Im not saying you can't be rich, but you can be rich, and pitch back to the society in which your wealth came from.

The modern free market is largely a myth. It has been replaced with Corporatism. Which is perfect for Progressives because they can rail against a system they created.

McCarthyism? Are you fucking serious?

The rich already pitch back in, as I have already shown in a link posted previously. Here's the link again in case you overlooked it:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Perhaps the 47% of wage earners who pay no income taxes at all should pitch in a little.

 

[NoDrama]

So this is hard evidence that public housing doesn't exist?? Looks to me that it is hard evidence of people living in tents. I bet they would love heath care too.

No, its a rebuttal to your statement that said homeless people are provided housing. Do you always argue against yourself? Try to be more consistent with your views, you are all over the place.