Okay, I get it, I got screwed on my light. I can't do anything about it now, nor can I prove him wrong without taking apart the light, which I will not do unless it breaks. Additionally, I didn't know that you, who doesn't make LED grow lights for a living, was a Cree expert. Who knows what Cree sells its LEDs for to a chinese based manufacturing company? You do? Maybe, maybe not. I have no alternative but to take this guy for what he said. He sold me a bright as all fuck LED light and says its a majority of Cree LEDs. So thats what I got. A physical LED grow light that is really bright. Versus a website and some forum banter. Now far be it for me to claim to be an expert on anything, however, am I supposed to completely disregard everything due to a quote that you got off a third party website, not even listed as a primary distributer on the Cree site? I don't know. LEDBUDGUY, I like you, you are fighting the good fight, your grow has me excited, but jesus fuck just be happy that your thread made someone else buy an LED light. Maybe I got some Crees, as Vic says, Maybe I don't as you say. Who the fuck cares. I will just from, now on, not mention anything at all involving Cree. Shit, its even more controversial than mentioning LEDs in this forum. We are all growing pot, I really don't care who is wrong or right Vic or you, I am just trying to figure out and prove if LED's are a viable alternative to HIDs. Thats it. Im sorry for flipping the fuck out, and maybe I brought this upon myself for mistakingly thinking that my LED light would ever be so precious as to be graced by the Cree name, but from this point forward, I will adjust my description of it to "a possibly off brand name LED grow light". Hopefully that will thin out the controversy enough to draw proper focus upon the goal of this thread.