LED vs. HID side my side competition

Same here, go LED!!! Plants grow under each type of light have subtle differences in thier needs. To be a fair I hope you are adjusting for these factors.

Serapis said:

Holy begezus!! I thought my $0.12 a kwh was high.... That is robbery....

Click to expand...

yeah, every 5 hours per 1K hid light is a dollar out of my pocket. With HPS and MH at the same time, that will be 6 bucks a day. Even if LED's do it for half the wattage, I can save 3 bucks at day at full blast. That shit adds up fast.

ledbudguy said:

Luminous flux is merely how the human eye measures visible light. It has no relevance when it comes to what is usable by the plant. The 120,000 lumens output by a 1000w HID in comparison to the 23000 lumens emitted by an average LED fixture breaks down like this;

1) 120,000 x .05 (5% usable light in HID) = 6000 usable lumens
2) 23,000 x 1.00 (100% usable light in LED) = 23,000 usable lumens

The issue with LED has always been the intensity of the spectrum emitted, not the amount of absorbable light. By using a 3w or higher powered diode the required penetration is attainable to produce dense bud.

I have watched the LED race closely for about 3 years now... LEDs will win eventually and they are getting really close now. Just remember that there are many different grades out there, most of which are garbage produced in china!

Click to expand...

can you cite any LED light made anywhere else? I believe hina has taken the lead on LED manufacturing.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

168 3w cree LEDs, 549 bucks. He purchases them in HUGE quantities (he must have been sitting on several hundred thousand individual LEDs worth of light), sends the LED's to china, has someone slap them together for cheap and ships them back. A three watt led at that quantity can be more than a buck with the proper driver and shit. That leaves over 300$ for everything else, assembly, shipping and profit.

Click to expand...

Dude, check digikey. They are a wholesaler for cree in the USA. The cheapest you will buy a 3w cree led for is around $3.00 (and this doesn't even factor in the more expensive spectrums!) each in mass 1000's quantity. 168 x $3 = $504 in LEDs alone. It is physically impossible to produce a quality 500w led light using 3w cree bulbs for anywhere close to $549

well LED chips are made all over the world, china has taken over assembly of the units from what I can tell. Cree leds (the led chips themselves) are made in the US, and are implanted in the grow light body in china.

There are some ebay seller from china putting out absolute cat shit led lights, using bottom of the line stuff. Then again, i bet the best lights on the market are assembled there. He'll my cell phone is from china and I f'n love it.

Serapis said:

can you cite any LED light made anywhere else? I believe hina has taken the lead on LED manufacturing.

Click to expand...

You are right, I was merely pointing out that with any product produced in China there are hundreds of knock offs that produce cheap crap.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

well LED chips are made all over the world, china has taken over assembly of the units from what I can tell. Cree leds (the led chips themselves) are made in the US, and are implanted in the grow light body in china.

There are some ebay seller from china putting out absolute cat shit led lights, using bottom of the line stuff. Then again, i bet the best lights on the market are assembled there. He'll my cell phone is from china and I f'n love it.

Click to expand...

My point exactly, there is no way that this company is assembling 500w 3w led cree fixtures in china and retailing them in north america for $549!

ledbudguy said:

Dude, check digikey. They are a wholesaler for cree in the USA. The cheapest you will buy a 3w cree led for is around $3.00 (and this doesn't even factor in the more expensive spectrums!) each in mass 1000's quantity. 168 x $3 = $504 in LEDs alone. It is physically impossible to produce a quality 500w led light using 3w cree bulbs for anywhere close to $549

Click to expand...

Fuck your right, It says they use cree for the 12K white. Oh well, hopefully they are a good off brand name led and I won't run into any problems. They are still bright as all hell.

stats that prove Ledbudguy right:

• Size: 18"X11"
• Number of LED's: 168
• Total Wattage: 504
• Lifecycle: 50,000hrs
• 6 Band LED
• Infrared: 730nm
  
• Red LED: 630-660nm
• HO Cree White: 12k
  
• Deep Spectrum Blue: 425nm
• Ultraviolet: 380nm
  
• Universal Voltage: 90v-240v

I guess that way he can say: we use cree leds *and not say we use All cree leds.

Serapis said:

Holy begezus!! I thought my $0.12 a kwh was high.... That is robbery....

Click to expand...

hell even 12 cents for a kwh is robbery. i can't complain with mine, it's just $0.07 per kwh

hopefully LED's in the next few years will be better and cheaper. i might make the switch then, but only if it's more beneficial to me (lower power costs, bigger harvest). I couldn't imagine buying an LED panel that was made in america. the same exact one would cost half the price if manufactured in china, it's just a pain because there are way too many knock offs out there.

ledbudguy said:

My point exactly, there is no way that this company is assembling 500w 3w led cree fixtures in china and retailing them in north america for $549!

Click to expand...

Email regarding this issue from the manufacturer :


Dear notafraidto,

hi, the majority of LEDs in this light are Cree, with maybe 15% of the remaining ones being from Taiwan and China (the ones that Cree does not even manufacture). Please take into account that the manufacturer has a special arrangement with Cree and has access to a totally different pricing structure than what they go for in the open market. Lastly, these lights are assembled in Asia by a US company at a US-run facility which also accounts for significant cost savings. We do not mis-represent the origins of the products we sell. If they were actually assembled here in the US the cost would probably be triple. Hope this helps. Vic
- gotham_products
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply Respond

i think in a few yrs the Led will be the new HPS they are getting better,wait till ya see a 5watt led bulb in future and be able to put out wat lems you want just by turning a nob,this is just my 2 cent a little high right now or should i say meds are kickin in ,but i dont see them going away just getting better,an then no more heat probs,im new to this so dont judge its just wat i think and i may be wrong

With the explosion of LED lighting just now coming on the scene, Cree is discounting? That sounds suspicious. I'd ask for a list of which LEDs are Cree and which are not. I'll bet Vic has no answer to that. He'll just cite 15% non-Cree.

Yea he probably will, but I'm not about to get in a firestorm argument with a guy that is giving me cheap led lights. Even if the LEDs fell off the back of a truck. I guess I'd love to have all cree's, I suppose I don't. Life goes on. I'm not about to return it. If this light produces good results I will no longer care about Cree leds. If it flops, then I guess I'm the fool for getting burned, and thank god I kept the HID lights. Time will tell.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

If this light produces good results I will no longer care about Cree leds.

Click to expand...

this is exactly right. People go on and on about "Cree". But where is the actual science that proves their led's are the ONLY led's that can be effective? I like the fact that you are doing this side by side. As long as you don't turn out to be a shill for an led light company like so many other people that pretend to be growers are. There are several threads started recently that are nothing but shills trying to hawk their overpriced products by pretending to just some average grower that is having extreme results with xxxx brand.

Dude, I wish I was a trolling shill for an LED company, so I wouldn't have to purchase LED's. I am just trying to grow some weed, and I like to experiment. I do like the guy I bought the lights from, and I will stand up for him unless I get negative results from the light. Plus he is the only source of LED lights that I can drive to and check out before I purchase, which was the main drive behind me going to him. I hope all my lights do well so I have a ton of bud. If I can prove or disprove rumors along the way all the much better in my eyes.

Hudsonvalley82 said:

Please take into account that the manufacturer has a special arrangement with Cree and has access to a totally different pricing structure than what they go for in the open market.

Click to expand...

I thought you were the manufacturer? There is no way that Cree is going to give this company special treatment of any kind let alone better pricing than is available on the open market.

Kerovan said:

this is exactly right. People go on and on about "Cree". But where is the actual science that proves their led's are the ONLY led's that can be effective? I like the fact that you are doing this side by side. As long as you don't turn out to be a shill for an led light company like so many other people that pretend to be growers are. There are several threads started recently that are nothing but shills trying to hawk their overpriced products by pretending to just some average grower that is having extreme results with xxxx brand.

Click to expand...

Well said, we should start an unbiased group... Create a thread called "Put up or Shut up!" and designate a neutral grower by vote that can legally grow and invite all of the manufacturers of these fixtures to donate what they are peddling in the name of research. Have sort of an ongoing competition and see who is legit and who is full of shit!

ledbudguy said:

I thought you were the manufacturer? There is no way that Cree is going to give this company special treatment of any kind let alone better pricing than is available on the open market.

Click to expand...

Okay, I get it, I got screwed on my light. I can't do anything about it now, nor can I prove him wrong without taking apart the light, which I will not do unless it breaks. Additionally, I didn't know that you, who doesn't make LED grow lights for a living, was a Cree expert. Who knows what Cree sells its LEDs for to a chinese based manufacturing company? You do? Maybe, maybe not. I have no alternative but to take this guy for what he said. He sold me a bright as all fuck LED light and says its a majority of Cree LEDs. So thats what I got. A physical LED grow light that is really bright. Versus a website and some forum banter. Now far be it for me to claim to be an expert on anything, however, am I supposed to completely disregard everything due to a quote that you got off a third party website, not even listed as a primary distributer on the Cree site? I don't know. LEDBUDGUY, I like you, you are fighting the good fight, your grow has me excited, but jesus fuck just be happy that your thread made someone else buy an LED light. Maybe I got some Crees, as Vic says, Maybe I don't as you say. Who the fuck cares. I will just from, now on, not mention anything at all involving Cree. Shit, its even more controversial than mentioning LEDs in this forum. We are all growing pot, I really don't care who is wrong or right Vic or you, I am just trying to figure out and prove if LED's are a viable alternative to HIDs. Thats it. Im sorry for flipping the fuck out, and maybe I brought this upon myself for mistakingly thinking that my LED light would ever be so precious as to be graced by the Cree name, but from this point forward, I will adjust my description of it to "a possibly off brand name LED grow light". Hopefully that will thin out the controversy enough to draw proper focus upon the goal of this thread.