The Ruiners' Hypothetical Questions to 19 Supporters

[The Ruiner]

fail right from the get go.

there is no possible overlap. there is 5x5 for recreational, and different limits for medical (and certainly not 'howver much they want'...normally there is a limit like 10 veg and 10 bud, or upto 99 veg and 99 bud).

the only real question you ask is 'will people still b able to get doctor recs?'...which we have shown you over and over again, the answer is YES.



i don't live there, not sure how this works now, but pretty sure it is already happening. under prop 19, this may still occur. but if you want to get in on the commercial cultivation rather than medical, you need to follow the dictates of sectioons 11300 - 11302.



see, this is exactly why i didn't waste my time previously responding to your hypothetical malarky - LOADED QUESTIONS and FALSE PRESUPPOSITIONS. the new legislation is for recreational and commercial cannabis, not medical cannabis.



another loaded question/false presupposition. you are assuming here that this was written solely to benefit the state of california. i would argue that is largely an afterthought, just a clever way to get more people to sign the petition and vote for it.



boy, it seems you can't even ask a question that is not loaded. here you assume that the commercial market will be so bogged down with regulations and taxes that it won't be able to compete with th medical market. that, m friend, is yet another false presupposition. are you forgetting that it costs money and plenty of time to keep a medical card current and up to date? or are you just ignoring? and have you stopped beating your wife?



yet another loaded question! who says commercial will have such elevated overhead that will spell higher prices? why should i even bother responding? have you rubbed the sand out of your vagina yet? (<---see, i can ask loaded questions, too!)



what else do you want me to say? we have already shown you it is true that 215 will be left intact.

now take your loaded questions and false presuppositions and go somewhere else with them. since this thing is about 95% assured of passing based on polling data and trends, it might be wise for you to use your time towards more fruitful pursuits.

I was wondering when you would show up...full of piss and vinegar.

Buck, your unwillingness to even consider the questions is depressing. Of course they are loaded...they are hypotheticals. I can only use what is known about the current system and what is being proposed in 19 - I didnt think it too much of a stretch considering the situation I put forth is the one the state will have to deal with if 19 passes, it may not be exact, but I am at least trying to see how this would work.

You however make no such effort and I will make none with you.

 

[Brokenneck]

I am not saying there will be anything.
But who is to say that growers that have bumped it up and sell to dispensaries might want to bump it up again and grow with some big money backing.
But hey if that does not work out, supplying a dispensary might continue.
And again, if the big boys can't produce quality products that the ol ma and pa growers can then you know where we will will head... Right to ma and pa.

Like, its not hard enough, to convince the older (reefer madness) generation on this one. We have to bicker amongst ourselves?

Build this House (Prop 19)
We will figure out where your hot tub will be after we get it built.

 

[UncleBuck]

Of course they are loaded....

yes, of course they are. it is the only way you can make your case.

other people have objections i can respect.

yours, however, get no such respect. because they are dishonest and loaded with false presuppositions.

an alternate way to go about it which would not sour me so is in the manner of hayduke: by being honest.

his (main) objection is that he won't be able to smoke in front of his children. that is in the bill, black and white. i can't rebut. i must respect his objection.

you, on the other hand, like to speculate against all reason and honesty, that prop 19 will deprive medical patients of their current rights.

that is dishonest and does not respect my intelligence.

perhaps if you phrased it as a question, rather than a loaded question, this would be different. but clearly you are not capable of such honesty.

for such dishonesty, you earn my full piss and vinegar. well done, sir.

 

[The Ruiner]

Your argument is baseless. 19 would allow ANYONE to increase their garden from 0 sq ft to 25 square feet. Why is it everyone that posts against 19 is a 215 card carrying member? Surely all of California can't be seriously ill? I'd love to carry an ounce of weed and not face a year in jail with a $1,000 fine. I'd love to grow in a legal 5' x 5' without facing 10 years in state and a $10,000 fine.

All of the arguments against 19 are misguided. Do you believe that if it doesn't pass that a better bill with full decriminalization and no taxes will follow? The only reason the bill is being considered is for revenue, taxes. Just like cigarettes and liquor.... go ahead and vote no..... many of you will regret it later. Especially if California ever wakes up and begins to enforce the compassionate use laws and begin to weed out the posers....

Vote yes on 19!

I forget, do you live in CA?

 

[The Ruiner]

I am not saying there will be anything.
But who is to say that growers that have bumped it up and sell to dispensaries might want to bump it up again and grow with some big money backing.
But hey if that does not work out, supplying a dispensary might continue.
And again, if the big boys can't produce quality products that the ol ma and pa growers can then you know where we will will head... Right to ma and pa.

Like, its not hard enough, to convince the older (reefer madness) generation on this one. We have to bicker amongst ourselves?

Build this House (Prop 19)
We will figure out where your hot tub will be after we get it built.

But the whole paradigm can easily change with 19 AND things could fall through commercially...leaving a wounded medical market with tougher restrictions and taxes out the butt that are only there as a result of 19. It's just way too sketch...and I dont trust a person that, with as much experience in MMJ as Richard Lee has, to come up with a bill as deeply flawed as 19. I think its pretty obvious that the bill isnt a "mistake" by any means, and that's what troubles me about voting yes.

 

[The Ruiner]

yes, well done, sir.

That's better.

 

[Serapis]

I forget, do you live in CA?

That is irrelevant to the debate. It does however show that you have no rebuttal for the point made and are looking for an out.... or a subject changer. Rather common methodology of someone with few convictions.

 

[Brokenneck]

polls as of yesterday show 19 losing in numbers since June.

Elbows are going for $3800 for A Grade. $2700 for the lesser or specials.

San Diego Dispensary Business $40k

Sources:Reuters (Polls) Weedmaps (Elbows)

Whoo Hoo 100 Posts.

 

[The Ruiner]

That is irrelevant to the debate. It does however show that you have no rebuttal for the point made and are looking for an out.... or a subject changer. Rather common methodology of someone with few convictions.

It shows quite frankly how irrelevant to the conversation your opinion is...

 

[Serapis]

It shows quite frankly how irrelevant to the conversation your opinion is...

Don't be ignorant. This issue goes well past California's borders. In fact, many parts of the world are watching.

 

[UncleBuck]

It shows quite frankly how irrelevant to the conversation your opinion is...

hey there mister,

i don't live in california. but i do drive through the state with less than an ounce of my own home grown medical with me several times each year.

i would rather have no worries whatsoever than to be subjected to a $100 fine.

so my opinion is relevant.

may i politely suggest you take that line of argument and stick it in a dark place where several hamsters of yours have met their fate?

 

[UncleBuck]

polls as of yesterday show 19 losing in numbers since June.

Sources:Reuters (Polls) Weedmaps (Elbows)

Whoo Hoo 100 Posts.

what you talkin about willis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_19_(2010)

congrats on the 100 post mark!

 

[ANC]

[youtube]nLsCC0LZxkY[/youtube]
Milton Friedman (July 31, 1912 – November 16, 2006) was an American economist, statistician, a professor at the University of Chicago, and the recipient of the Nobel Prize in Economics. Among scholars, he is best known for his theoretical and empirical research, especially consumption analysis, monetary history and theory, and for his demonstration of the complexity of stabilization policy.[1] He was an economic advisor to U.S. President Ronald Reagan. Over time, many governments practiced his restatement of a political philosophy that extolled the virtues of a free market economic system with little intervention by government. As a professor of the Chicago School of Economics, based at the University of Chicago, he had great influence in determining the research agenda of the entire profession.

 

[Brokenneck]

Morning!

""what you talkin about willis?"" UB
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6945VJ20101006
Now, take it for what you will. It is journalism.

 

[Brokenneck]

ANC Thanks for the vid.
Always wanted to say I FUCKIN' LOVE COLORING TOO!

 

[The Ruiner]

Don't be ignorant. This issue goes well past California's borders. In fact, many parts of the world are watching.

The hardest thing I think for out of state people to grasp is just what has been happening in CA for the last 2 years or so...That's what pisses me off. When you see just how fucking crazy it has gotten, how aggressive law enforcement has been - how many times the MMJ has gotten knifed in the back from local governments...how people continue to get raided and thrown in jail...It would piss you off. And then, to pass legislation that will without any doubts start making things even harder for patients and dispensaries to operate...its enough to make you sick to your stomach. I haven't walked in to ONE dispensary down here that supports 19...NOT ONE...They all say the same things about 19...These are people that have done things by the book, that are fighting to stay open - filing law suits against the city. I just think it is so narrow-minded, thankless, and totally fucking selfish of people to make so many assumptions about people they know nothing about...to tell those people to vote their rights away because it affects "the world"...well, tell those people to change THEIR WORLD, you arent a part of mine, I dont go voice my opinions about another state's politics, trying to influence people how to vote...I think my voice would be unecessary and detracting from the issue. I am not ignorant, I fucking live here. I at least have a real reference point when it comes to judging this issue. You however, have a forum where you cant verify if I exist and what I am saying is from one person, or if I am some "work-from-home" obese-stoner deadbeat fuck on disability working for the commercial interests backing 19.

I dont fucking care anymore... If I end up in jail because my storage shelf next to my grow puts me outside 25 sq ft at least I will see it coming, and at least I will know that I tried.

How fair is it that November 2 I will wake up a legal grower and the next day I could wake up a criminal?

I am sick to my fucking stomach over this...I am disgusted and totally appalled.

I just want to say I am really sorry to all of the CA MMJ patients out there that have to worry about 19, I wont let my rights go that easily and neither should you...

 

[Johnny Retro]

The hardest thing I think for out of state people to grasp is just what has been happening in CA for the last 2 years or so...That's what pisses me off. When you see just how fucking crazy it has gotten, how aggressive law enforcement has been - how many times the MMJ has gotten knifed in the back from local governments...how people continue to get raided and thrown in jail...It would piss you off. And then, to pass legislation that will without any doubts start making things even harder for patients and dispensaries to operate...its enough to make you sick to your stomach. I haven't walked in to ONE dispensary down here that supports 19...NOT ONE...They all say the same things about 19...These are people that have done things by the book, that are fighting to stay open - filing law suits against the city. I just think it is so narrow-minded, thankless, and totally fucking selfish of people to make so many assumptions about people they know nothing about...to tell those people to vote their rights away because it affects "the world"...well, tell those people to change THEIR WORLD, you arent a part of mine, I dont go voice my opinions about another state's politics, trying to influence people how to vote...I think my voice would be unecessary and detracting from the issue. I am not ignorant, I fucking live here. I at least have a real reference point when it comes to judging this issue. You however, have a forum where you cant verify if I exist and what I am saying is from one person, or if I am some "work-from-home" obese-stoner deadbeat fuck on disability working for the commercial interests backing 19.

I dont fucking care anymore... If I end up in jail because my storage shelf next to my grow puts me outside 25 sq ft at least I will see it coming, and at least I will know that I tried.

How fair is it that November 2 I will wake up a legal grower and the next day I could wake up a criminal?

I am sick to my fucking stomach over this...I am disgusted and totally appalled.

I just want to say I am really sorry to all of the CA MMJ patients out there that have to worry about 19, I wont let my rights go that easily and neither should you...

Do you not see the irony there?! it pretty much just came up and smacked you in the face, i hope u dont miss it.
NO ONE is voting their rights away! What makes you think if 19 isnt past the gov still wont be knocking on despencerys doors? Your logic makes no sence! 19 would probably help your fellow medical patients from being raided. Your basing your beliefs off of conspierecys! THE BILL DOSNT FUCKIN SAY IT RULES OUT 215

It still amazes me that stoners are against this

 

[The Ruiner]

Do you not see the irony there?! it pretty much just came up and smacked you in the face, i hope u dont miss it.
NO ONE is voting their rights away! What makes you think if 19 isnt past the gov still wont be knocking on despencerys doors? Your logic makes no sence! 19 would probably help your fellow medical patients from being raided. Your basing your beliefs off of conspierecys! THE BILL DOSNT FUCKIN SAY IT RULES OUT 215

It still amazes me that stoners are against this

The bill doesnt nearly do enough to clarify anything about growing restrictions and interference with patients. That's enough for me to be against it. There is no irony...you are not clever, you didnt "show" me anything, I am not amused...at all. This is not a game, this is for real... this could ruin thousands of lives and people think that they have the "logic" to show otherwise? Get real dude. This is serious. There is enough reputable objection to 19 for you to sort out all the semantic BS ad naseum, ad infinitum, knock yourself out. I know what it says, I know what its capable of, and I totally oppose it. Absolutely nothing will change that.

I will start designing my "R.I.P. 215" shirts now...

 

[Johnny Retro]

Where the tinfoil hats at?
No matter what, your gona beable to buy fuckin weed. YOUR the one being selfish. Oh no! i cant grow in more than a 25sq foot area, my life will be over! Dude get real. The bill DOES say it has no affect on prop 215, why do you continue to ignore this? And even if it does affect 215, its still not harming you because you can still go out and buy weed! it just wont be as cheap as growing it, but your not gona die!

 

[The Ruiner]

Where the tinfoil hats at?
No matter what, your gona beable to buy fuckin weed. YOUR the one being selfish. Oh no! i cant grow in more than a 25sq foot area, my life will be over! Dude get real. The bill DOES say it has no affect on prop 215, why do you continue to ignore this? And even if it does affect 215, its still not harming you because you can still go out and buy weed! it just wont be as cheap as growing it, but your not gona die!

Johnny,

How can you seriously sit back 2000 miles away and think you have a handle on the situation? You are dependent on media and the internet. I am out talking directly to the people that this will affect, do you know how many patients I have found that like 19? None. Collectives and dispensaries? None. Does it matter to any of you people from out of state that a majority (3/5) of the people who wrote 215 oppose 19? And that another says that he can neither support or oppose it, but is VERY concerned about the complications with 215... I dont care what you think about me, you are so ignorant to the realities its baffling to the point of silence...the best advice I can offer you is to RESPECT the position of those that oppose this bill, because these are the people that have made weed what it is in CA, not some handful of millionare drug-dealing sycophants that have decided to fuck over all of their friends and the rest of the people protected under 215.

I am sure from the outside this situation looks impossible - having weedpeople opposing "legalization", but I can tell you with certainty that it is for reasons of the utmost importance that we do, regardless of what lying, hate-filled, inflammatory bullshit propaganda hightimes and norml put out. Believe what you want dude, it doesnt affect you anyway, right? You just care about yourself and "what this could mean" for your state, fuck the people that actually have to deal with this bullshit, right? Who are they to oppose the legislation? Oh yeah, the actual voters, no big deal! Do you really think that there would be so much opposition within the MJ community itself if there were no reasons to worry? Do you think that high times and norml produce the only MJ lawyers that are qualified to comment on the subject and voice their legitimate concerns? You dont know shit, you think you do, but bottom line is that you dont know a goddamn thing. Take your sarcasm, and your brainwashed rhetoric elsewhere, because like the rest of you supporters I doubt you actually have answers for the questions at the beginning of this thread.