Only 38% support Obamacare

[OregonMeds]

You said you read so there are several books on the subject you'll find in a google search. medical advancement war, try that.
I didn't bother to look them up for you because it doesn't matter. Nothing we say here matters.

 

[Illegal Smile]

You said you read so there are several books on the subject you'll find in a google search. medical advancement war, try that.
I didn't bother to look them up for you because it doesn't matter. Nothing we say here matters.

I've searched at length. Not one recent drug advancement (and by recent I mean 20 years) has come from anywhere but the private sector. If what you propose had been done 20 years ago, it would mean perhaps a million deaths.

 

[CrackerJax]

Uhhh, no country wins more Medical Nobels than the USA.

Right now as we speak Britain ( a 50 year old test case in socialized medicine) they have a severe shortage of doctors. Why? Uhh, less ppl want to be one. This translates into ppl with serious illness waiting for diagnosis, forget the wait for actual service.

 

[beardo]

id like a job. can fit people still do manual labor for a paycheck. instead of healthcare can we try to prevent sickness? free fruit and vegtables instead of paying people to grow corn for corn suryup and soda how about banning cars in citys or making all city roads heavily tolled and taxed? how about higher tax on gas alcohol and tobacco encorage people to eat healthy walk ride bikes shop work and live locally make people healthy instead of making money off people getting sick

 

[CrackerJax]

Sure, the next step is to have the Govt. take over the entire food industry. it's the exact same logic.

 

[beardo]

they allready controll food thats why why everthings corn. im just thinking instead of mcdonalds being 99 cents and a healthy salad being 5$ or if you have foodstamps ramen noodles are 25 cents but a healthy meal is 10$ people get sick from eating crap. poor people have to eat crap and the values of this food are created by subsidy programs. and if you live in the country or even the burbs i can see driving but if your young and healthy and live in a major city i think you should be able to walk or bike anywhere. why are the roads clogged with cars burning dead dinosour that we have wars for to move a 200 pound person to and from work home shopping? a 3000 pound car moving through traffic to move 1 person down the street. i love cars but think about it and in 2000 it doesnt make sence. and theyll fine you if you want to smoke a cigarette because of second hand smoke but if you dont drive your expected to breath whats comming out of everyones exhaust pipe? im just thinking instead of giving failing banks and auto companys and healthcare money we could have put everyone to work real work in their comunities. building trains roads power plants housing gardens i dont know but give people work quit wasting money and try to give people a healthier life and comunity shop local produce local quit buying crap we dont need from people we dont know

 

[OregonMeds]

Uhhh, no country wins more Medical Nobels than the USA.

Right now as we speak Britain ( a 50 year old test case in socialized medicine) they have a severe shortage of doctors. Why? Uhh, less ppl want to be one. This translates into ppl with serious illness waiting for diagnosis, forget the wait for actual service.

Ok then if you're worried about new drugs being made that can kill you with side effects unknown, how about we include the cost of R&D in the system and finance the same new developments for areas that aren't for profit. Viagra studies and nutsack anti wrinkle pills not included.

Britain has a shortage of doctors you say? I didn't know that, so I googled (real easy to do btw) and the first thing I find is this:

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. Jan. 12 2007 11:22 AM ET
The United Kingdom's surplus of doctors could solve the physician shortage in Canada, the British Medical Association has suggested.
It's predicted Britain will have a surplus of 3,200 medical specialists by 2010. The British Medical Association told reporters in London on Thursday that if those specialists can't find jobs in the United Kingdom, they might consider moving to Canada.


From here:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070112/doctor_shortage_070112/20070112?hub=Health

You guys aren't very good with facts or google or what?

 

[TeddyPickles]

only 38%? OMG!!!!! THAT IS SOOOO LOOOOOW.... NOT.


lol and calling it "Obamicare" makes this statistic irrelevant anyways... Maybe the Iraq war should be reffered to as "Bushicide" in the future. I mean Reaganomics were bad enough when will the (clearly) right wing get a little better at both politics and naming regimen.

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

The NHS in England is facing problems recruiting locum hospital doctors, a leaked government memo shows.

The document, obtained by the Health Service Journal, said that some trusts were even having difficulties getting applicants to attend interviews.

The problem seems to have been caused by changes in junior doctor training as young medics are generally used to fill the locum posts.

The government said it took the issue seriously.

Locums work across a variety of specialities and are used to fill posts until a permanent appointment can be made.

Junior doctors often recruited to carry out the duties in-between their official training positions.
This problem has been circulating anecdotally for some time
Department of Health spokesman


But a reform of medical training meant the end of staggered start dates for the training posts, meaning there is a shortage of doctors in the system.

The memo was sent by a Department of Health official to health bosses asking for evidence of problems.

The official said: "Anecdotally we are aware that service in some trusts may be experiencing problems in finding locums."

The replies received show a range of difficulties across the country.

One reply described the problem as "extensive".

It said: "We are having increasing difficulty filling any and all vacancies and locum requests."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7271029.stm

Date: Feb 29, 2008

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

Dated March 07:

Chairman:In 1999 this Committee was advised that an oversupply of doctors was highly unlikely before the year 2020. We have received evidence from the NHS employers that there is currently a 7% oversupply of doctors and that this will rise to 12% by 2009. How did this occur and is this a desirable scenario?


witchdoctor.wordpress.com/2007/03/31/hello-world/

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

Ok then if you're worried about new drugs being made that can kill you with side effects unknown, how about we include the cost of R&D in the system and finance the same new developments for areas that aren't for profit. Viagra studies and nutsack anti wrinkle pills not included.

Britain has a shortage of doctors you say? I didn't know that, so I googled (real easy to do btw) and the first thing I find is this:

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. Jan. 12 2007 11:22 AM ET
The United Kingdom's surplus of doctors could solve the physician shortage in Canada, the British Medical Association has suggested.
It's predicted Britain will have a surplus of 3,200 medical specialists by 2010. The British Medical Association told reporters in London on Thursday that if those specialists can't find jobs in the United Kingdom, they might consider moving to Canada.


From here:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070112/doctor_shortage_070112/20070112?hub=Health

You guys aren't very good with facts or google or what?

Your date (for this article): Date: Fri. Jan. 12 2007 11:22 AM ET (Suggested/predicted. ???)

 

[OregonMeds]

Crackerjax said there was a severe shortage of doctors. That's not the case, in fact the truth is actually the complete opposite.

They have an abundance of doctors, that article doesn't even say there is a shortage of doctors it only says they are having trouble getting new doctors to fill certain very junior posts and they give the reason right there the reason is not traced to a national health care service failure it's traced to training start times they say which are no longer staggered.

What do you call a so called fact when it's proven to be completely false? What is that three letter word that means not true?

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

http://www.rsm.ac.uk/media/downloads/j06-06moredrs.pdf

2.3 doctors per 1000 people in 1993. Population of ~60 million

60,000,000 / 1000 * 2.3 = 138,000. Sounds about right, of course in the last year or two this should start rising pretty sharply.

That article says the OECD average is 2.9 which would place the "ideal" number of doctors at 174,000. But the UK has always had a below average number of doctors.

That article is actually very interesting, take a look at the gender distribution diagram on page 2, the number of male doctors between now and 1960 has hardly changed. Of course then there were far fewer women than men and now there are far more women than men.

BSMS September 2008
2(i) BSc Molecular Medicine, University of Sussex 08'

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

Thanks for playing.

PS: The estimated resident population of the UK was 61,383,000 in mid-2008, up by 408000 on the previous year. Children aged under 16 represented around one in ...
www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=6

61,399,118 - 2008

 

[OregonMeds]

I guess women really stepped up didn't they, you're right about that graph it was interesting.

At either rate they have no problem recruiting all the new students they want into medical school in Britain, in fact they control admissions in accordance with expected need and could create a surplus if they chose to admit that many and have and can even forecast the surplus.

The argument seems to always be that countries with national health care have trouble recruiting doctors, shortages of doctors, nobody wants to be a doctor there, etc etc etc. Excuse me but the pdf above explains that all away. Not true.

Any problem they have with recruiting just means they tweak something and it's not a problem any more. No horrendous pile of people dying in the streets because there aren't enough doctors to treat them.

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

We should never forget a few things: Government has proven it's self incapable of running anything correctly and under budget. Also- we have more taxs now than what could ever have been imagined by our forefathers.

It's just another huge dept that they will expand until all we do is work to pay for what government has cost us.

Not to change the subject but.... can you imagine what life in the US would have been like had we remained on a Gold/Silver standard? I got to looking into to that awhile back and it just blows me away.

We would have been in a position of such unrelenting wealth- it boggles the mind. But as long as the value of papare (fiat) money goes down- or lifestyle and everything we ever dreamed for goes with it.

Gasoline cost, lets say, 75 cents in 1972. You could buy 4 gallons of Gas for one silver dollar (about 1 oz in silver)
Last year when gas went through the roof- you could still buy 4 gallons of gas with one ounce of silver. Gold and silver maintain their value but as our dollar continues to die- everything will increase dramatically. Which means people will have to live to work and sinply work to live. No dreaming allowed.

O'bow mao and all our former Presidents had the chance to do something and did nothing. Ron Paul and a few other wanted to return to sound money but.... the media shot them dead. No non- new world order people allowed to be pres.
That we, as a nation of concerned citizens must change!

 

[OregonMeds]

We should never forget a few things: Government has proven it's self incapable of running anything correctly and under budget. Also- we have more taxs now than what could ever have been imagined by our forefathers.

It's just another huge dept that they will expand until all we do is work to pay for what government has cost us.

Not to change the subject but.... can you imagine what life in the US would have been like had we remained on a Gold/Silver standard? I got to looking into to that awhile back and it just blows me away.

We would have been in a position of such unrelenting wealth- it boggles the mind. But as long as the value of papare (fiat) money goes down- or lifestyle and everything we ever dreamed for goes with it.

Gasoline cost, lets say, 75 cents in 1972. You could buy 4 gallons of Gas for one silver dollar (about 1 oz in silver)
Last year when gas went through the roof- you could still buy 4 gallons of gas with one ounce of silver. Gold and silver maintain their value but as our dollar continues to die- everything will increase dramatically. Which means people will have to live to work and sinply work to live. No dreaming allowed.

O'bow mao and all our former Presidents had the chance to do something and did nothing. Ron Paul and a few other wanted to return to sound money but.... the media shot them dead. No non- new world order people allowed to be pres.
That we, as a nation of concerned citizens must change!

Perhaps if we'd had previous administrations that put more emphasis on renewable energy and getting off the oil tit... Perhaps if we didn't have a drug war that causes billions every year to be funneled right out of the country. Perhaps if we didn't outsource everything under the sun. Perhaps if we bought more of our own goods and less from overseas... Maybe if we made better stuff so we didn't always have a trade deficit.

We have shed wealth in every possible way imaginable for years, whether we are based on a gold standard or not nothing can change until the above types of things are changed.

The amount of money the drug war alone has cost us in relation to international trade deficits has never even begun to be counted.

Have you seen the documentary "Who killed the electric car" or are you familiar with how many public transportation and rail systems etc the automotive industry has killed?

We can't begin to comprehend all the money the auto industry has cost us if you try to calculate all those gas savings we could have had over the last 100 years if it weren't for their meddling and our government not stopping them.

 

[Haul me to Heaven]

I am so in agreement with you. But remember! We told them what to do and not to do and they did what we said no to AND no to what we wanted them to do.

Our public servants have not done a good job at doing the will of the people - as in WE, the people. They do a great job for many of the industries you mentioned above.

We need to slam the door shut and focus on cleaning up our own house before we spend on more dime.

It all... ALL of it goes back to the orginal intent, hopes and dreams of our forefathers.

We are so bloody far away from that ideal it's sick.

But don't lose hope. There are more of us than there is of them. We just need to tell Uncle Scam and company to get bent and bit a wall. Better yet- jail them for violation of Oath of Office and sedition and treason. A bunch of them need to be hung. Litteraly.

The tree of LIBERTY must be refreshed from time to time by the Blood of Tyrants.

 

[CrackerJax]

Ok then if you're worried about new drugs being made that can kill you with side effects unknown, how about we include the cost of R&D in the system and finance the same new developments for areas that aren't for profit. Viagra studies and nutsack anti wrinkle pills not included.

Britain has a shortage of doctors you say? I didn't know that, so I googled (real easy to do btw) and the first thing I find is this:

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. Jan. 12 2007 11:22 AM ET
The United Kingdom's surplus of doctors could solve the physician shortage in Canada, the British Medical Association has suggested.
It's predicted Britain will have a surplus of 3,200 medical specialists by 2010. The British Medical Association told reporters in London on Thursday that if those specialists can't find jobs in the United Kingdom, they might consider moving to Canada.


From here:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070112/doctor_shortage_070112/20070112?hub=Health

You guys aren't very good with facts or google or what?

Want to see a LARGE reduction in R&D? Pass the govt. health plan and you will get ur wish.

There are PLENTY of jobs available in the UK for doctors. there just aren't enough DOCTORS!!! The best have quit and the brightest no longer seek medical as a career in the UK.
It's been 50 years of socialized medicine, and it's all falling apart over there.

It doesn't work....never did, and never will.

Govt. cannot be a business. It fails every time.

Hospitals face doctor shortage



Hospital managers are employing expensive locums to cover shortages left by the disastrous junior doctors recruitment system.
Out of 15,600 training posts for doctors 15 per cent remain unfilled. It means some hospitals are turning to locums to fill the gaps until the remaining posts can be filled.


==================================================================================================================================



Doctor shortage shuts two Swansea children’s wards




TWO children’s wards at a Welsh hospital are being shut down because of a doctor recruitment crisis, the Western Mail can reveal today.
The emergency transfer of inpatient paediatrics from Singleton to Morriston Hospital in Swansea, is stark evidence of the problems the NHS is having attracting middle-grade doctors to work in Wales.
And there were fears last night that the shortages, further hampered by changes in immigration policy, could see more services in Wales either closed or consolidated.


=======================================================================================================================================================


Doctor shortage despite recruitment efforts


There is a shortage of doctors in the Hamilton area despite recruitment efforts
Despite around four years of relocation and recruitment drives in the Hamilton area, there are still around forty thousand residents in the area without a family physician.
These numbers are expected to get higher as well over the next few years as a number of physicians will be due to retire.

The average age of the physicians is 53. About ninety of the physicians are between the ages of forty and forty nine, while 30 per cent are between the ages of 50 and 59. And about 79 doctors are 60 years and older.

 

[jeff f]

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. Jan. 12 2007 11:22 AM ET
The United Kingdom's surplus of doctors could solve the physician shortage in Canada, the British Medical Association has suggested.
It's predicted Britain will have a surplus of 3,200 medical specialists by 2010. The British Medical Association told reporters in London on Thursday that if those specialists can't find jobs in the United Kingdom, they might consider moving to Canada.


QUOTE]

so with this 3 year old source that says england is okay but canada has major shortages.....hmmmm...canada has shortages and all we have to do to fix it, make a bunch of people from england move to canada....hmmm...

nothing to see here folks, socialized medicine is fine....just move along!

suggestion, when you are trying to pack sand up my ass, get a source that makes your point.