Gingrich slams Obama over shaking hands with Chavez

[PadawanBater]

i dont even understand what the argument is we had mutual interests and helped saddam at one point this goes on all the time were no better than other nations in this regard. this is common knowledge. then our interests changed and we killed him to further our new interests. business as usual none of this is controversial or secret information. whatever relations we have now with various undesirable governments is no different. our morality with regards to foreign policy is no better than most other industrialized nations.

Exactly, thank you!

The argument is... May is an idiot, he wont admit that our government sold weapons to Iraq during the 80's, he's trying to play clever semantics and argue that shit like uranium based amunition, RPG's, AK's, Attack Choppers, SCUD Missiles, etc. somehow don't qualify as 'weapons' because hey, they're all made of simple metal, plastic and glass and hey... you can get that anywhere in the United States... so we shouldn't be held responsible... like a fucking retard...

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

Go check the links and either come back and admit you're wrong about this and retain whatever shred of credibility you have left, the rest of us will pretend you're just a really stupid person whose trying to learn, or keep posting nonsense and you'll keep getting educated.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Exactly, thank you!

The argument is... May is an idiot, he wont admit that our government sold weapons to Iraq during the 80's, he's trying to play clever semantics and argue that shit like uranium based amunition, RPG's, AK's, Attack Choppers, SCUD Missiles, etc. somehow don't qualify as 'weapons' because hey, they're all made of simple metal, plastic and glass and hey... you can get that anywhere in the United States... so we shouldn't be held responsible... like a fucking retard...

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

Go check the links and either come back and admit you're wrong about this and retain whatever shred of credibility you have left, the rest of us will pretend you're just a really stupid person whose trying to learn, or keep posting nonsense and you'll keep getting educated.

Yes, and we also sold weapons to Iran during the 80s, what's your f* point?

 

[PadawanBater]

Yes, and we also sold weapons to Iran during the 80s, what's your f* point?

Tell that to May. He doesn't believe it, which is probably one of the reasons the US government can't do anything wrong in his eyes, militarily speaking... Which leads to the rest of these diluted ideas him and CJ keep spewing.

 

[may]

A PBS Frontline episode, "The Arming of Iraq" (1990) detailed much of the conventional

Carter got Begin & Sadat to sign a peace agreement at camp david in 78 in the treaty the US would pay Israel & Egypt $4 billion a year each in perpaetuity for not going to war this included ARMS and other aid.
After he alowed Khomeini to take over and the hostages were taken, he buddyed up to saddom with talks on the phone for a while and the truth is could have played a big part in saddam going to war with iran and while a lot of things point to that, I'm not saying it.

When iraq went to war with iran russia stoped selling arms to iraq as both were allies of russia's so iraq had a need for arms. Egypt with new arms from the US and all of the old crap from russia, also being an ally of iraq wished to sell them to iraq BUT by getting arms from the US they had to agree not to sell ANY weapons to another country without the ok from the US, also within the treaty they couldn't sell arms to anyone that weren't friendly with israel, but carter did ok the selling of arms to iraq from egypt.

Carter, Sadat and Begin got the noble peace prize for this!

and so-called "dual-use" weapons sold to Iraq.

I like the so-called part because none of the things sold to iraq had ever been called that before they were sold to iraq and the name was coined by the dems for their spin on this. Calling them this is STUPID and IS not TRUE.

The public learned from other sources that at least since mid-1980s the US was selling chemical and biological material for weapons to Iraq and orchestrating private sales.

There wasn't a need for orchestration, and it didn't happen.

These sales began soon after current Secretary of State, Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad in 1985 and met with Saddam Hussein as a private businessman on behalf of the Reagan administration.

BULLSHIT he was trying to get the ok for a pipeline in iraq. I have seen the pic 30 times or so the first few had the reason for the trip, then it just became something for the left to spin.

." Bush deceives because he hides the fact that US officials, including his father, had no qualms about helping Saddam gas Iranians. What is truly frightening are the US policies toward Iraq, the cover ups of those policies, and the US officials who personally profit in the millions of dollars from those policies. To whatever degree Saddam is a tyrant, he would not be that without the US government.

Only a moron would think that saddam was a tyant because of anything the US did or believe the other crap.

Details about Iraq killing Iranians with US-supplied chemical and biological weapons significantly deepens our understanding of the current hypocrisy. It began with "Iraq-gate" -- when US policy makers, financiers, arms-suppliers and makers, made massive profits from sales to Iraq of myriad chemical, biological, conventional weapons, and the equipment to make nuclear weapons.

Just more bullshit spin.

Reporter Russ Baker noted, for example, that, "on July 3, 1991, the Financial Times reported that a Florida company run by an Iraqi national had produced cyanide -- some of which went to Iraq for use in chemical weapons -- and had shipped it via a CIA contractor." This was just the tip of a mountain of scandals.

If you leave out the CIA and what it was used for it would be true, but the left ALLWAYS has to ADD SPIN.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP MED.

So now you know how the left can spin in the conventional weapons or even say weapons when it comes to saddam and the US, but as I have said the US didn't EVER SELL A WEAPON TO SADDAM!

 

[may]

Exactly, thank you!

The argument is... May is an idiot, he wont admit that our government sold weapons to Iraq during the 80's, he's trying to play clever semantics and argue that shit like uranium based amunition, RPG's, AK's, Attack Choppers, SCUD Missiles, etc. somehow don't qualify as 'weapons' because hey, they're all made of simple metal, plastic and glass and hey... you can get that anywhere in the United States... so we shouldn't be held responsible... like a fucking retard...

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

I just want to save this for you so you can read your lies over and over may be you will learn, if you can.

You just really don't know SHIT ABOUT THIS do you.
I wonder if you about anything past pretending that you do. YOUR JUST A PRETENDER WANTA BE.

Go check the links and either come back and admit you're wrong about this and retain whatever shred of credibility you have left, the rest of us will pretend you're just a really stupid person whose trying to learn, or keep posting nonsense and you'll keep getting educated.

I know more than any link your likely to provide.

I am the ONE PROVIDING EDIFICATION your the one trying to mask the truth you silly little boy.
As for my credibility I have the highest.
Trying to educate me will only lead to your embarrassment, if I wish it.

 

[may]

The argument is... May is an idiot, he wont admit that our government sold weapons to Iraq during the 80's, he's trying to play clever semantics and argue that shit like uranium based amunition, RPG's, AK's, Attack Choppers, SCUD Missiles, etc. somehow don't qualify as 'weapons' because hey, they're all made of simple metal, plastic and glass and hey... you can get that anywhere in the United States... so we shouldn't be held responsible... like a fucking retard...

WHO IS THE IDIOT AND RETARD?

Please show a single error in anything I have said here?

Yes I am clever and play semantics at times, BUT what I say is true. The same can't be said about YOU, take a look at what you said above theres not a single BIT of truth in the whole thing. Was this because your a moran as I said OR just lying?

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

Please show proof of this OR tell me how this is true?

Go check the links and either come back and admit you're wrong about this and retain whatever shred of credibility you have left, the rest of us will pretend you're just a really stupid person whose trying to learn, or keep posting nonsense and you'll keep getting educated.

Please show me any nonsense that was posted by me?

YOU come back and admit your wrong so you can retain whatever shred of credibility you have left if you ever had any?

Please answer as your credibility is on the line.

 

[jfgordon1]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/09/lawsuit_alleges_firms_sold_iraq_chemical_weapons/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/31/world/main534798.shtml

There's a coule links May talking about how usa supplied iraq with chemical weapons. if they supplied chemical weapons.. the thought of them supplying guns too pretty much goes without saying.

EDIT: OOPS . i thought you guys were talking about iraq lol. im not sure about iran. i'll have to check that out.

 

[jfgordon1]

indeed we did supply Iran with weapons. exchange for 3 hostages.

http://www.mia.org.il/archive/861106lat.html

 

[PadawanBater]

WHO IS THE IDIOT AND RETARD?

Please show a single error in anything I have said here?

Yes I am clever and play semantics at times, BUT what I say is true. The same can't be said about YOU, take a look at what you said above theres not a single BIT of truth in the whole thing. Was this because your a moran as I said OR just lying?

Guess I must have struck a nerve or something, you reply once...wait a couple days, I don't reply... so then you reply to the same message again! lol...

OK May, I'll respond to your nonsense again, but this time pay attention, I'm gonna take you step by step through this...

A single error in anything you've said?

OK, howbout;

When you go to a store to buy something the stores intent is to sell to you and make a profit, its the way it works. If its a hardware store and they sell you a hammer and you kill someone with it, should we go back to the hardware store and say they sold this hammer knowing full well that it was a duel use item and they are to blame for the way that you used it?

...this was your attempt at arguing that US weapons contracts are somehow similar to buying a hammar in a hardware store... a hammars intent is construction, totally different than a weapon.

http://wjz.com/local/chemical.weapons.saddam.2.981406.html

"A federal lawsuit in Baltimore accuses three companies of unlawfully selling to the Saddam Hussein regime materials for making chemical weapons that were used against Iraqi Kurds in 1988."

LMFAO!! FAAAAAIL!

or..

The analogy is perfect and is exactly what they did, they came here to buy and did, just as you or I could have bought the same things.

...this is where you tried to argue the reasoning behind your logic, the FAIL part is right after the third comma, you or I could NOT have bought the same things. Do you know anyone whose selling SCUD missiles? Do you have the money to buy one? Howbout an Apache attack chopper? Regular people cannot buy these things...
or...

Saying shit like the US sold iraq anything, as if it was one country selling to another. The US didn't sell a single thing to iraq.

...please explain to me how any random person in Iraq could have bought these things.

...and finally...

Was this because your a moran as I said OR just lying?

...moron*

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

Please show proof of this OR tell me how this is true?

I showed you proof of this already. All those links I posted a few pages back was PROOF that the US government sold the Iraqi government weapons during the 1980's... Even TBT admitted it. It's not some kind of secret, it's all totally public knowlege, nobody but you is denying it!

In any case;

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

YOU come back and admit your wrong so you can retain whatever shred of credibility you have left if you ever had any?

Please answer as your credibility is on the line.

Dude, I seriously think you're some 14 year old kid. You present yourself on the internet that way anyway...

 

[may]

Guess I must have struck a nerve or something, you reply once...wait a couple days, I don't reply... so then you reply to the same message again! lol...

Sorry but you thinking you could get to me is silly, I needled you for a response and got it, a bit more and it kept YOU around, so I would have someone for background if I wished to keep posting here, and to add interest so that maybe I would want to post.

I didn't post back so you and others would have the time to find out that what I had said was the truth and to have time to come up with a response. But you wimped out so I brought you back.

A single error in anything you've said?

OK, howbout;



...this was your attempt at arguing that US weapons contracts are somehow similar to buying a hammar in a hardware store... a hammars intent is construction, totally different than a weapon.

http://wjz.com/local/chemical.weapons.saddam.2.981406.html

"A federal lawsuit in Baltimore accuses three companies of unlawfully selling to the Saddam Hussein regime materials for making chemical weapons that were used against Iraqi Kurds in 1988."

LMFAO!! FAAAAAIL!

or..



...this is where you tried to argue the reasoning behind your logic, the FAIL part is right after the third comma, you or I could NOT have bought the same things. Do you know anyone whose selling SCUD missiles? Do you have the money to buy one? Howbout an Apache attack chopper? Regular people cannot buy these things...
or...

You truly are a moron the SCUDs came from russia, do you think that the US sold an apache to iraq?

As always I stand behind what I say and as yet to see a error in what I have said.

...please explain to me how any random person in Iraq could have bought these things.

...and finally...



...moron*

The items were sold as weapons, bought as weapons and intended to be used AS FUCKING WEAPONS.....IDIOT.

What items or weapons? The only things you have brought up weren't sold from the US or weren't weapons at all.

Please name a single weapon sold by the US to iraq?

I showed you proof of this already. All those links I posted a few pages back was PROOF that the US government sold the Iraqi government weapons during the 1980's... Even TBT admitted it. It's not some kind of secret, it's all totally public knowlege, nobody but you is denying it!

I is? YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING I is denying it. I am also denying that you have shown proof of a single weapon sold to iraq from the US. If you think that you have than name it?

NAME A WEAPON SOLD TO IRAQ BY THE US?

 

[bicycle racer]

arming iraq: a chronology of u.s. involvement. google it this is getting silly.

 

[PadawanBater]

NAME A WEAPON SOLD TO IRAQ BY THE US?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

"Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia."

...are you going to argue that these things aren't weapons?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/31/world/main534798.shtml

"...that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague."

Pwned.

 

[may]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

"Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia."

First a politician spin is just not something that will lead you to truth, but if you know the truth you should be able to see how they take the truth and come up with their spin. I have seen links from commonddreams more than a few times and its just spin and bullshit as I'm sure most of your links are [though theres one i will check when I find the time] but I do wonder if it was you adding Bush Sr. and VX to this or was it from your link? As you have lied more than once I think that it was you but the link i'm sure has lies also.

Why does the left think that a politician saying something makes it a fact?
I don't expect you to answer as you have yet to answer anything only to try to confuse and your obscuration with your cut&paste seems your only weapon along with you behind your strong high walls of obstinate selfdelusion.

...are you going to argue that these things aren't weapons?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/31/world/main534798.shtml

"...that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague."

Pwned.

Is the VX and Bush not in this link?

Back to the truth.

The secretary of state said that Carter gave the red light for saddam to start the war and I see this as fact only because Carter had already shown that he wanted the war in more than a few ways. Such as setting up a conduit to pass satellite and other intelligence months before the war. I would never say that Carter was the cause as there were a lot of reasons for saddam to go to war, but if it was Reagan and not Carter theres not a doubt that the left would have said that its ALL Reagan failt and by this time most would believe it to be so.

Reagan not liking communists nor their satellites had no dealings with iraq intill after the world got so upset over the use of chemical weapons, mostly it was iraq's use as iran had been whining to the world about it but both were using them as we all know. Reagan asked Rumsfeld [who wished to build a pipeline and wanted to restore relations with iraq so that he could.] to talk to saddam and get him to stop the use of chemical weapons and that after a while if he kept clean in the war that full relations could be restord and saddam did stop, though later I think he did use them once and that it slowed down him getting the relationship with the US. He did stop the use and got normal relations after a while. Which alowed iraq to buy things BUT NOT ANY WEAPONS [and he didn't buy anything that could be called a weapon] from the US.

I may be slow as i'm building a house but I will get around to the rest when I can.

 

[medicineman]

May, you're so full of it. I guess anthrax, VX and nerve agents aren't weapons, well unless they would be used against you, then what would you say. The semantics of weapons could go on for decades, but those gasses were used by sadam in a war so, damn straight they were weapons sold to him by, you guessed it, the CIA, the secret arm of US foriegn policy. Go build your frickin house and forget this subject, you have been owned by several posters and now by me. Bon-Voyage.

 

[PadawanBater]

First a politician spin is just not something that will lead you to truth, but if you know the truth you should be able to see how they take the truth and come up with their spin. I have seen links from commonddreams more than a few times and its just spin and bullshit as I'm sure most of your links are [though theres one i will check when I find the time] but I do wonder if it was you adding Bush Sr. and VX to this or was it from your link? As you have lied more than once I think that it was you but the link i'm sure has lies also.

Why does the left think that a politician saying something makes it a fact?
I don't expect you to answer as you have yet to answer anything only to try to confuse and your obscuration with your cut&paste seems your only weapon along with you behind your strong high walls of obstinate selfdelusion.

　
Is the VX and Bush not in this link?

Back to the truth.

The secretary of state said that Carter gave the red light for saddam to start the war and I see this as fact only because Carter had already shown that he wanted the war in more than a few ways. Such as setting up a conduit to pass satellite and other intelligence months before the war. I would never say that Carter was the cause as there were a lot of reasons for saddam to go to war, but if it was Reagan and not Carter theres not a doubt that the left would have said that its ALL Reagan failt and by this time most would believe it to be so.

Reagan not liking communists nor their satellites had no dealings with iraq intill after the world got so upset over the use of chemical weapons, mostly it was iraq's use as iran had been whining to the world about it but both were using them as we all know. Reagan asked Rumsfeld [who wished to build a pipeline and wanted to restore relations with iraq so that he could.] to talk to saddam and get him to stop the use of chemical weapons and that after a while if he kept clean in the war that full relations could be restord and saddam did stop, though later I think he did use them once and that it slowed down him getting the relationship with the US. He did stop the use and got normal relations after a while. Which alowed iraq to buy things BUT NOT ANY WEAPONS [and he didn't buy anything that could be called a weapon] from the US.

I may be slow as i'm building a house but I will get around to the rest when I can.

　
Dude, May, I'm going to be honest with you, after I read this last post of yours, it's clear you're one of those people that there is no hope for, there's nothing I can say, do, or show you to change your mind about anything, you're already firm in your beliefs that the entire world is out to get you and America's the good guys and everyone else is an enemy. I'm really curious about your age and location -- as in which state you live in, to get a better idea about the way you might have developed these insane ideas, so if it isn't too much trouble, please provide that information.

So...time for school. Pay attention May.

1. According to you, any source I provide is spin. You list no reasons or evidence to back this up you just claim it's spin and somehow think thats an acceptable response... (even after I cite MULTIPLE sources, which already totally eliminates your theory that it's all just 'spin'.... What, all the "spin" agrees with eachother??)

2. I don't add anything to sources, everything I posted was directly from the source itself. I'm not petty enough to try to prove a point by adding in my own biased viewpoint to factual publicized information. I don't come up with a viewpoint, then try to find sources to confirm it, like you seemingly do, I look at the information available, and formulate a conclusion based on the facts.

3. Anything ANY politician says should be analysed and criticized.

4. If you can't spell and use correct grammar, don't try.

5. "The secretary of state said that Carter gave the red light for saddam to start the war and I see this as fact only because Carter had already shown that he wanted the war in more than a few ways."

- ... red means stop, green means go. (love your sources for this wellknown fact!)

6. It's not about 'right/left' it's about 'right/wrong' asshat. If a democrat breaks the law I'd be the first in line pushing for prosecutions. Yeah you're right there are extreme left leaning people out there that'll go along with whatever the fuck the left does no matter what, break laws, raise taxes, they'll be all for it because it's their party and the people supposed to be representing them are all for it, but hey, I've got news for you, it goes both ways, there are extreme right wing nut jobs out there too, and you've been exhibiting very similar behavior to them. You've gotta see that they use that very technique AGAINST YOU, while you think you're fighting for your party, both parties are content with having us argue, exactly like this, exactly like we've been doing this whole thread so far, with us focused on defeating eachother and proving eachother wrong, we can't focus on more important issues that actually matter. Get the fuck past this shit and try to work together once in a while instead of always arguing the opposite viewpoint, goddamn!

7. The shit you started saying about Rumsfeld has zero evidence to back it up. I've never heard of him wanting to place a pipeline through Iraq and that sure as hell wasn't what his trip when he met with Sadaam in '83 was about. I'll admit I'm wrong if you can show me any evidence to support the shit you stated.

8. I've already proven my point about the weapons being sold from the US government to the Iraqi government pre1990. If you don't want to believe it, that's your problem, but just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen, pick up a book man, it's recent history, I actually remember learning about that when I was going through school it was that recent...

 

[ilkhan]

The truth is I haven't the need to add pieces to my repertoire so I don't google or care about links. MAY

I could say "Snow is white" but if that info isn't already rattleing around in his head its not true and no amount of proof will convince him.

OUT.

 

[PadawanBater]

The truth is I haven't the need to add pieces to my repertoire so I don't google or care about links. MAY

I could say "Snow is white" but if that info isn't already rattleing around in his head its not true and no amount of proof will convince him.

OUT.

lol, sums him up perfectly.