The Junk Drawer

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
ever see the Lone Ranger? Can you imagine anyone stepping off a horse looking like that -two hours of cosmetic prep? And Tonto - !
i always wondered if he had a hideaway just stuffed full of white pants and shirts? cause i can't wear a white anything for more than 5 minutes without getting some kind of spot on it, and i'm not riding a horse 99.9% of the time.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
some do. i like a gas range and an electric oven, myself. gas gives you the ability to fine tune, from a full rolling boil to a barely bubbling simmer, which is difficult to achieve with an electric range, but the electric oven is more stable, able to maintain a constant temp better, and better for keeping things warm, gas, even on low, tends to keep cooking the bottoms of things.
It depends on burner design. My current stove has a teeny burner that keeps stuff just below the simmer.
Trouble is, the big burner is underpowered as per stir-fry test.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Yes by law in 2050, that's for both cooking and heating. Phasing out has been going on for at least 5 years already. Like I said in another thread, NG is the new coal, as in treated as such. New homes in NL don't have a gas connection since 2018, and when someone leaves a (social housing) rental its gas connection is replaced before a new renter gets the place. About 3 years ago a non-SWAT team entered my kitchen to replace the gas connection with a power outlet suitable for stoves. I now big 5-prong power connector behind my stove. I didn't actually have it replaced and still cook on gas (not ready to replace my oven yet...) so not quite a ban yet. Gas used for cooking is just a very small percentage of the total. Replacing it is often a side-effect of replacing heating (with among others heat pumps) and/or installing solar.

When coal was replaced with very very cheap gas (both locally sourced and even cheaper Russian gas) the energy used by appliances and heating systems wasn't a major factor. Several decades ago the by EU required energy label introduced a way for consumers to get choose more efficient products but it resulted in lots of patching rather than real changes. As you probably know, fries are pretty big here, literally compared to McD, but also in popularity. With the current energy rates many what we call 'snackbars' can't survive, just as bread bakers. They are stuck in their ways, wasting energy, and frankly I like to see businesses who cannot adopt die out. These circumstances lead to innovative solutions, just a few days ago a snackbar reopened, selling fries cooked in a new infrared fryer.

As for using NG for power generation, yes, for now, specifically for dark hours and other times where wind and solar can't provide a steady enough supply. That will end too. Besides meeting emission goals, if anything because the world's running out of ng almost as fast as oil. It differs per continent but for example, in 2019 US had enough NG for the following 84 years, world average roughly 42. 'Thanks' to Putin, all the projections are off the table. In ways it's worse, in ways it's better.


Just the American ones poisoning and fattening up our kids. If MacDonalds, KFC, Burger King and similar disgusting food suppliers with burgers from 80 different cows go out of business in the process it would be a huge win.
It's better than coal for power generation as we phase into renewables or possibly deep geothermal, Germany and Poland are using coal and any new NG pipelines from Ukraine or elsewhere should go to them. They switched off Russian gas and expanded tanker LNG infrastructure at lightspeed. New battery technology for EVs and grids over the next decade will change things quite a bit in the energy market, a decade of heat pump installations that give 3 watts of heat for 1 watt of power will have an effect and I figure gasoline demand in the EU will dry up in most places. Farmers will start to go electric with a wind turbine and battery bank in the barn to charge the equipment and truck quickly.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
It depends on burner design. My current stove has a teeny burner that keeps stuff just below the simmer.
Trouble is, the big burner is underpowered as per stir-fry test.
i actually have a glass top induction range right now, and i FUCKING HATE IT...it gets plenty hot enough, but it takes it fucking hours to cool down.
if i want to reduce the heat under something quickly, i have to actually take it off of the element, turn the element off, wait a couple of minutes, and then turn it back on, or it will stay way the fuck too hot for 15-20 minutes...and low heat takes the same amount of time to build up, i turn it on high for a few minutes then reduce the heat when i actually put the pan on...
i'd be happy to risk asthma with a gas range, with this piece of shit thing as my alternative.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
i actually have a glass top induction range right now, and i FUCKING HATE IT...it gets plenty hot enough, but it takes it fucking hours to cool down.
if i want to reduce the heat under something quickly, i have to actually take it off of the element, turn the element off, wait a couple of minutes, and then turn it back on, or it will stay way the fuck too hot for 15-20 minutes...and low heat takes the same amount of time to build up, i turn it on high for a few minutes then reduce the heat when i actually put the pan on...
i'd be happy to risk asthma with a gas range, with this piece of shit thing as my alternative.
Induction is shit for carbon-steel cookware. A stamped and lathe-turned pan is my daily driver.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
it seems to me to be more of a problem of gas stoves in poor tune than something intrinsic.
While seemingly not a major motivator to change it's definitely a bonus for kitchens that don't have a good extractor hood and venting ducts - which are in my part of EU very rare but in other parts you definitely got to keep the window open as it is a very well-known issue.

I cannot relate to the the common listed reasons why electricity would be worse than gas while I do a whole lot of cooking. It reminds me of the comment I made about how people discuss electric cars in the climate change thread, as if it's still something in the future and if there are any really good arguments against it. Not having suitable cookware yet for example, it's an accepted logical result of switching to electric cooking that you need new pans (those on gas are usually not entirely flat anymore). Induction is the way to go, it's closest to cooking on gas. People stir-fry just fine with the right pan on 2-3kW zones but there are also specifically induction zones with 5kW for those who consider stir-frying a major factor. Having to change the way we prepare food isn't a major obstacle.

I also built a 300w oven I use to cook (and smoke) salmon, tandoori chicken and pizzas that taste better than 99% of what chefs produce.

"It always seems impossible until it's done." ― Nelson Mandela

It's been done. Half the stoves sold in NL are induction.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
some do. i like a gas range and an electric oven, myself. gas gives you the ability to fine tune, from a full rolling boil to a barely bubbling simmer, which is difficult to achieve with an electric range, but the electric oven is more stable, able to maintain a constant temp better, and better for keeping things warm, gas, even on low, tends to keep cooking the bottoms of things.
Don't try to cook at 5003 altitude..you'd rip your hair out, seriously. Food up here cooks fast so oddly in the oven you increase heat by 15% and decrease time..it's so weird.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
While seemingly not a major motivator to change it's definitely a bonus for kitchens that don't have a good extractor hood and venting ducts - which are in my part of EU very rare but in other parts you definitely got to keep the window open as it is a very well-known issue.

I cannot relate to the the common listed reasons why electricity would be worse than gas while I do a whole lot of cooking. It reminds me of the comment I made about how people discuss electric cars in the climate change thread, as if it's still something in the future and if there are any really good arguments against it. Not having suitable cookware yet for example, it's an accepted logical result of switching to electric cooking that you need new pans (those on gas are usually not entirely flat anymore). Induction is the way to go, it's closest to cooking on gas. People stir-fry just fine with the right pan on 2-3kW zones but there are also specifically induction zones with 5kW for those who consider stir-frying a major factor. Having to change the way we prepare food isn't a major obstacle.

I also built a 300w oven I use to cook (and smoke) salmon, tandoori chicken and pizzas that taste better than 99% of what chefs produce.

"It always seems impossible until it's done." ― Nelson Mandela

It's been done. Half the stoves sold in NL are induction.
A good extractor hood should be compulsory for anyone boiling cabbage or cooking Indian.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
While seemingly not a major motivator to change it's definitely a bonus for kitchens that don't have a good extractor hood and venting ducts - which are in my part of EU very rare but in other parts you definitely got to keep the window open as it is a very well-known issue.

I cannot relate to the the common listed reasons why electricity would be worse than gas while I do a whole lot of cooking. It reminds me of the comment I made about how people discuss electric cars in the climate change thread, as if it's still something in the future and if there are any really good arguments against it. Not having suitable cookware yet for example, it's an accepted logical result of switching to electric cooking that you need new pans (those on gas are usually not entirely flat anymore). Induction is the way to go, it's closest to cooking on gas. People stir-fry just fine with the right pan on 2-3kW zones but there are also specifically induction zones with 5kW for those who consider stir-frying a major factor. Having to change the way we prepare food isn't a major obstacle.

I also built a 300w oven I use to cook (and smoke) salmon, tandoori chicken and pizzas that taste better than 99% of what chefs produce.

"It always seems impossible until it's done." ― Nelson Mandela

It's been done. Half the stoves sold in NL are induction.
Free at last, thank God almighty, free at last -MLK

I thought about those words a day or two ago about Biden and how quickly he's gotten our country back on track.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
This is now considered an Act of God and you are not getting any hotel or food.


Fascinating for a man made tool and file corruption..Acts of God are the uncontrollable that man had nothing to do with.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
It's better than coal for power generation as we phase into renewables or possibly deep geothermal, Germany
When you compare burning gas vs burning coal yes. According to a ton of research and climate experts comparing the use is highly debatable and depends a lot on where and how it's mined and transported. But yes generally speaking hiv is better than lung cancer. Germany however never tried to hide the fact the transition to gas was temporary to meet self-imposed emission milestones. A decision no German citizen or politician with any concern about the climate considered a good idea. The same people now, thanks to Putin, have additional ammo to criticize that decision.

The emission agreements are about reducing emission with a percentage. When a country like Germany that is still using oil and lignite replaces that with NG, it does help reach milestones but not the end goal. In a country like NL, or Belgium or Denmark, or UK, NG has to be replaced with renewables to meet the same milestones. Or:

 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
A good extractor hood should be compulsory for anyone boiling cabbage or cooking Indian.
I agree. When I moved into my apartment I asked if there was a true exhaust fan..of course they lied and said yes. I have my fire alarm covered and open my windows to broil. Same with bathroom it's a sealed unit with something that makes a whirling sound but I've tested it..it doesn't suck any air out. Weird. There's just white people here..one brown lady..one Asian lady..but if you use old spices it can be as odiferous as Indian cooking.

Your spices age, men..more than a year? Throw it away and get new no matter how full the jar is..caveat is unopened and sealed.
 
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cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I agree. When I moved into my apartment I asked if there was a true exhaust fan..of course they lied and said yes. I have my fire alarm covered and open my windows to broil. Same with bathroom it's a sealed unit with something that makes a whirling sound but I've tested it..it doesn't suck any air out. Weird. There's just white people here..one brown lady..one Asian lady..but if you use old spices it can be as odiferous as Indian cooking.

Your spices age, men..more than a year? Throw it away and get new no matter how full the jar is..caveat is unopened and sealed.
trouble is, most spices have become priced out of reach of such a practice.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
When you compare burning gas vs burning coal yes. According to a ton of research and climate experts comparing the use is highly debatable and depends a lot on where and how it's mined and transported. But yes generally speaking hiv is better than lung cancer. Germany however never tried to hide the fact the transition to gas was temporary to meet self-imposed emission milestones. A decision no German citizen or politician with any concern about the climate considered a good idea. The same people now, thanks to Putin, have additional ammo to criticize that decision.

The emission agreements are about reducing emission with a percentage. When a country like Germany that is still using oil and lignite replaces that with NG, it does help reach milestones but not the end goal. In a country like NL, or Belgium or Denmark, or UK, NG has to be replaced with renewables to meet the same milestones. Or:

Here is what Germany did in the past year, their conversion and dependency tracks their eagerness to help Ukraine.

 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Here is what Germany did in the past year, their conversion and dependency tracks their eagerness to help Ukraine.

I‘m aware of what Germany is doing and has done in terms of gas usage and how they have changed course thanks to Putin, as I posted about several times with admiration. Tracks yes, but is motivated by much more than sympathy for Ukraine. It’s always, always about the money. And I don’t agree with your assessment Germany blew up Nordstream ;)

Not sure what the point is though, it’s not about reducing import from Russia.

A more relevant picture:
66741B36-D9BC-4B5A-9F41-97413045B12B.jpeg

Factored out the weather difference, 15-25% less, still quite an accomplishment, primarily a direct result of high prices, it’s all about saving money and it’s similar throughout the EU (average reduction of 20.1%). When your energy bill doubles or far more it becomes a good motivator to use less.
 
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