Biden Forgives $20k of Pell Grant

[cannabineer]

Talking about the unemployed, encompasses a great deal of people in many different circumstances.


Everyone that is an adult should be held personally accountable for the choices they make and their actions. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

No one can offer me a reasonable argument why I should be able to responsible for another adult actions or choices. Forgiving a person's student loan up to the tune of $20,000, implies I equally responsible for their debt as is every other American. I did not take on this debt so I should not have to pay for it.

Which is why I specified the unemployable. How should they be supported, or do you imagine they should be left out of society?

You described something as socialistic, implying that it is bad. This leaves me wondering how to reconcile humanity with no socialism. I am curious how your ideal society deals with those who cannot earn a living.

 

[orangejesus]

Which is why I specified the unemployable. How should they be supported, or do you imagine they should be left out of society?

You described something as socialistic, implying that it is bad. This leaves me wondering how to reconcile humanity with no socialism. I am curious how your ideal society deals with those who cannot earn a living.

Define 'unemployable' in this context.

 

[orangejesus]

As i recently stated if one group get free education then all subsequent groups should get free education. A precedent has been set.

So it's not simply a question of waiving thousands of dollars per eligible borrower... now you're talking about funding higher education - which most everyone can agree is overpriced, and potential not a good investment - indefinitely. I'd love to hear your thoughts on funding that.

By the way, the precedent had already been set - borrow money, pay it back, done. Somehow folks of all walks of life have been able to do that for decades.

 

[PJ Diaz]

IDK where you live but here if a child doesn't attend school the primary caregiver is fined, perhaps even have their child taken away from them. Just sending them to a library doesn't cut it.

And ill ask again. If the gov is forgiving school fees for a group will schooling now be free for all who wish it? Whats fair for one should be fair for all.
I'm a huge believer that all education be free.

In California school is compulsory for those age 6-18.

A Review of California's Compulsory Education Laws

 

[PJ Diaz]

Typically Federal expenditures are required to be approved by Congress. Why should this half trillion dollar ticket be any different?

New Student Debt Changes Will Cost Half a Trillion Dollars | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

2022-08-24-Note (9/26/2022): The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has released an estimate that debt cancellation will cost $400 billion

www.crfb.org

 

[cannabineer]

Define 'unemployable' in this context.

last six (6) words of the post

 

[Lucky Luke]

So it's not simply a question of waiving thousands of dollars per eligible borrower... now you're talking about funding higher education - which most everyone can agree is overpriced, and potential not a good investment - indefinitely. I'd love to hear your thoughts on funding that.

By the way, the precedent had already been set - borrow money, pay it back, done. Somehow folks of all walks of life have been able to do that for decades.

Funding education makes a society smarter. An educated population is a no brainer if looking towards the future of the tribe.
Fund it? Tax churches. 1/2 the military budget, tax the the top 10 companies, tax the billionaire, add 1.5% to exports. There's a heap of ways to fund it but it would in the long term nearly pay for itself in increased personal income tax of the tribe. Education = an increase in income.

 

[hanimmal]

lmao at the troll narrative that pretends that they are paying for others debt with this loan reduction.

Ignores the reality that the interest already paid on those loans and taxes being paid by the people who have those loans more than make up for it.

The student borrowed money from the lending institution, and gave it to the school; the school was paid, the lender is - or will be - paid, and the student was able to pursue their education. Those three parties entered into an agreement - the taxpayer did not. Furthermore, while I've heard arguments that the lender was predatory, or the school did not prepare the student, or even that the student perhaps did not select the best field of study, I've yet to hear how the taxpayer bears any responsibility for the creation of the situation - whatever the situation may be.

If these loans were so bad, why are the two parties that profited not bearing the burden? If there were issues with the loan (predatory?), the lender should discharge the loan - not collect taxpayer money through any sort of government action. If the school's tuition is such that the average person cannot attend without going into debt, the tuition needs to be adjusted. Having attended several schools - both junior colleges and state universities - I'm of the opinion that costs can be cut without decreasing the quality of the education.

The argument that this will somehow benefit the 'greater good' - though it only applies to a limited portion of the population - seems noble, but - if so - why stop there? If you think student loan debt is significant - or a burden - take a look at auto loans, especially with the recent flux in values; these are people that are that are struggling to pay their monthly car note - often at rates several times that of any student loan - so they can commute to a job to put food on the table for their kids, and may have decided to skip college due to the cost... but their tax dollars should pay for someone's English degree? If this would so greatly benefit society, why not credit card debt? All debt? Or perhaps give those funds to homeless vets - people that have already contributed to society, and could certainly use it more than some theater major living at home and looking for their next gig after leaving Twitter.

More to the point, will this fix the problem? Or will the graduating class of 2030 still be saddled with debt? More students should look at trade schools - there's been a shortage of automotive techs for 20 years.

Or parents got sick and they dropped out, or they just were not prepared or have any actual understanding of what college was going to be like and spend a year or two in their teens racking up substantial debt that they are unable to utilize. Or any of the infinite other reasons people who enter college are unable to finish, meaning they are (now, not in the 70s when college was federally subsidized and extremely affordable for white men).

Pretending like college is some normal purchase that a loan is being taken out for is willfully being blind to reality. Imagine having to take out a loan to be able to work at a job that you don't get paid for so that you can be a better employee.

Typically Federal expenditures are required to be approved by Congress. Why should this half trillion dollar ticket be any different?

New Student Debt Changes Will Cost Half a Trillion Dollars | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

2022-08-24-Note (9/26/2022): The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has released an estimate that debt cancellation will cost $400 billion

www.crfb.org

It is pretty impressive how people are willing to use future interest on this debt and fines skimmed from people who are struggling to pay their monthly bill on time, as a way to amplify the actual price tag of this.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Talking about the unemployed, encompasses a great deal of people in many different circumstances.


Everyone that is an adult should be held personally accountable for the choices they make and their actions. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

No one can offer me a reasonable argument why I should be able to responsible for another adult actions or choices. Forgiving a person's student loan up to the tune of $20,000, implies I equally responsible for their debt as is every other American. I did not take on this debt so I should not have to pay for it.

why do you feel like you'll be responsible for it? you think they're going to draw a name from a hat and send it to you, and you have to pay off their loans?
it's tax money...a lot of it goes for a lot worse shit, and you don't bitch about that...some of it goes to burn books, in republican states, don't hear you bitching about that money going up in smoke.
here, this should make you shit on yourself, and start calling congress people after you shower...
https://moneyminiblog.com/lists/stupidest-things-u-s-government-spends-money-on/

 

[HGCC]

So are you suggesting that because someone went to college and promised to pay a loan, that I'm responsible for repaying that loan for them? That is in fact very socialistic in nature. As a hard-working father of four, I don't even make $100,000 a year but you expect I should pay back people's loans that make more than I do?

No man, I'm asking in what way are you paying that loan? Are we all paying back those PPP loans? How about any of the others thousands and thousands of government subsidies.

If those people don't pay back that loan, what impact does that have on you. How does it harm you, is there something you will miss out on? If they do pay, does that improve things for you somehow?

To the holder of that debt, the federal government, they are more interested in money circulation not necessarily accumulation.

You mention plumbers. It's more valuable to the federal government that people have cash to keep hiring plumbers rather than paying their debt and then not having the cash to pay a plumber and instead having to go diy it. They need the economy to keep going more than they need people to pay loans.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

If those people don't pay back that loan, what impact does that have on you. How does it harm you, is there something you will miss out on? If they do pay, does that improve things for you somehow?

some people are just miserable mean spirited fucks, who can't stand to see anyone get anything, ever. even if they're getting it too...they won't return a fucking thing, but they'll still bitch that anyone else is getting anything.
even though most of the people who are bitching about how they had to repay their loans went to school in the 70s and 80s, the fact that the price of tuition has gone up 2580% doesn't phase them....the price of tuition at a public university in the US in 1970 was $394.00....last year it was $10,560....
https://www.intelligent.com/1970-v-2020-how-working-through-college-has-changed/

 

[PJ Diaz]

No man, I'm asking in what way are you paying that loan? Are we all paying back those PPP loans? How about any of the others thousands and thousands of government subsidies.

If those people don't pay back that loan, what impact does that have on you. How does it harm you, is there something you will miss out on? If they do pay, does that improve things for you somehow?

To the holder of that debt, the federal government, they are more interested in money circulation not necessarily accumulation.

You mention plumbers. It's more valuable to the federal government that people have cash to keep hiring plumbers rather than paying their debt and then not having the cash to pay a plumber and instead having to go diy it. They need the economy to keep going more than they need people to pay loans.

The PPP was approved by congress however, which is quite different from Biden's executive order. Biden's order will cost individual taxpayers around $2000, and was not approved by congress, which is why some people are upset.

 

[hanimmal]

The PPP was approved by congress however, which is quite different from Biden's executive order. Biden's order will cost individual taxpayers around $2000, and was not approved by congress, which is why some people are upset.

You mean more that Biden's plan is going to stop those people with those loans from paying future money (in principle) that was going to be an extra tax for the people who worked their asses off to get (or try to) a college education in the post Reagan years after white men had to start admitting women and non white people into their programs and they cut the federal funding to them skyrocketing the costs.

Or for say someone with about $130k in student loans that is earning less than what $125k a year(?) is about a year of added interest, 2 years worth if they were poor enough to get a Pell Grant when they attended. Not so life changing, but for the people who have been carrying debt and don't have a degree, and are going to see their entire loan forgiven, this is as important as the $300 a month for a lot of the parents that were getting it from Biden and the Democrats legislation to help during the economic collapse.

And 'people are upset' because they are being sold the snowflake narratives about this.

 

[Hotrod2]

No man, I'm asking in what way are you paying that loan? Are we all paying back those PPP loans? How about any of the others thousands and thousands of government subsidies.

If those people don't pay back that loan, what impact does that have on you. How does it harm you, is there something you will miss out on? If they do pay, does that improve things for you somehow?

To the holder of that debt, the federal government, they are more interested in money circulation not necessarily accumulation.

You mention plumbers. It's more valuable to the federal government that people have cash to keep hiring plumbers rather than paying their debt and then not having the cash to pay a plumber and instead having to go diy it. They need the economy to keep going more than they need people to pay loans.

The federal government consist of the people of the United States of America. You are suggesting people should not be held accountable for the choices they make in life. No one forced them to borrow the money, many who did borrow the money paid it back. It never will be and never should be my responsibility or anyone else's responsibility to support another one's mistakes or choices. Not holding people accountable for their choices in life is a slippery slope at best

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

The federal government consist of the people of the United States of America. You are suggesting people should not be held accountable for the choices they make in life. No one forced them to borrow the money, many who did borrow the money paid it back. It never will be and never should be my responsibility or anyone else's responsibility to support another one's mistakes or choices. Not holding people accountable for their choices in life is a slippery slope at best

listen closely, i doubt i will ever say this to you again...i agree with you, mostly. people should be responsible for their own choices.
that being said...18 and 19 year old kids should NOT be allowed to take out loans for any purpose, you should have to be at least 21, and should have to have at least a 580 credit score, before any lender will touch you. AND that being said...the educational grant program in this country should be expanded, fucking hugely, for all minorities, and all low income students...if your parents make less than 120k a year and you have good grades, you get a free ride. we NEED people to be taking hard sciences and math, or we're going to run out of people to build or run any kind of technology. other countries are already ahead of us in that aspect, a LONG way ahead of us...
as to whether the student loan forgiveness program is a good idea or not, i'm not sure, but it would help out a whole generation of people who are facing a huge fucking mess of OUR making...is it so fucking horrible an idea to help them out, knowing they're going to be hip deep in our shit their entire lives?

 

[Herb & Suds]

The federal government consist of the people of the United States of America. You are suggesting people should not be held accountable for the choices they make in life. No one forced them to borrow the money, many who did borrow the money paid it back. It never will be and never should be my responsibility or anyone else's responsibility to support another one's mistakes or choices. Not holding people accountable for their choices in life is a slippery slope at best

Why should we give tax breaks to oil companies and wealthy corporations?
Trickle down does nothing but make the wealthy wealthier
Prove me wrong?
We may not be able to fix everything just like climate issues but we can each make moves forward as opposed to doing nothing to change the whole scenario
I hear that his crap about school choice and funding I’ve paid school taxes on homes for over fifty years
I’m not holding some silly grudge because I never had kids
And for the record I was raised poor and still attended private schools
No government funding at all
Do I need to say again we all have to give a little
Not the prevalent what about me crap

 

[cannabineer]

Why should we give tax breaks to oil companies and wealthy corporations?
Trickle down does nothing but make the wealthy wealthier
Prove me wrong?
We may not be able to fix everything just like climate issues but we can each make moves forward as opposed to doing nothing to change the whole scenario
I hear that his crap about school choice and funding I’ve paid school taxes on homes for over fifty years
I’m not holding some silly grudge because I never had kids
And for the record I was raised poor and still attended private schools
No government funding at all
Do I need to say again we all have to give a little
Not the prevalent what about me crap

 

[Lucky Luke]

In California school is compulsory for those age 6-18.

A Review of California's Compulsory Education Laws

18 in my state to unless they have an apprenticeship organised.

 

[Budley Doright]

The key word is density, and I am biased toward history and artifact. For natural beauty, the US is the world class.

(Though seeing the topless beaches of the southern coast as an adolescent in the magical days before implants, I got an eyeful of natural beauty there too.)

Unfortunately sEuropean nude beaches show more hair than a Canadian musk ox. But I don’t judge !

 

[doughper]

Why is there still a debate about Reagan's trickle down economics?
His own econ advisor called it voodoo economics back then, and yet it continued on.
Then the greed-mongering SOB, Alan Greenspan said in 2008 after the great
recession that he was wrong about trickle down, yet it continues. Is it lack of
common sense, or some other evil entity that's taking over our ability to think?