Should the US shed blood for Ukraine

Should the USA along with NATO defend Ukraine with troops.

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 40.4%
  • No

    Votes: 59 59.6%

  • Total voters
    99

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Friend, it doesn't seem to matter who is in power in Russia historically it is never good for the poorer people. I am not trying to justify the acts of a harsh and brutal dictator but great novels are written under those conditions usually. Hence the lack of great American novels since the Civil war.
In answer to your question, I would say he was provoked by the US. I would also suggest that he is the kind of person that should not be provoked. He is unstable to say the least and has come to think of his view of the world as the only one. However much of a mad dog Putin is and even after this war has been fully accounted for his regime will still have less blood on it's hands than the US one over the same timeframe. The facts are the balance of power is shifting away from the US, and rightly so.
Interesting idea you have right there. The US provoked Putin into invading Ukraine. I like your honesty :roll: .

I've met people like that before. They get into fights and its always the other person's fault. In fact, a brother of mine has a terrible temper and he used to get into fights. It was always due to what somebody else did. The fight was unavoidable, he was provoked. In his last fight, my brother was hit so hard that to this day he suffers from a detached retina. It was decades ago. He doesn't get into fights any more because another blow will cause permanent blindness. I say all this because my brother is proof that fights are avoidable. I'm guessing that the equivalent of a detached retina might give Putin pause the next time he feels provoked. NATO and Ukraine seem willing to provide the blow.

Regarding books. Have you read any of these and can you recommend any to me? Or perhaps a different one that was written within the past 10 or so years and available in English?

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I wonder how vaccination is going in Ukraine, get a vaccine, it's the patriotic thing to do, they don't need you sick but fighting! Taking up a hospital bed from the wounded will be seen as criminal. If the gov can draft ya it can vaxx ya. Hospital resources are scarce, so roll up your sleeves and be a patriot. ;-)
 

Crumpetlicker

Well-Known Member
Interesting idea you have right there. The US provoked Putin into invading Ukraine. I like your honesty :roll: .

I've met people like that before. They get into fights and its always the other person's fault. In fact, a brother of mine has a terrible temper and he used to get into fights. It was always due to what somebody else did. The fight was unavoidable, he was provoked. In his last fight, my brother was hit so hard that to this day he suffers from a detached retina. It was decades ago. He doesn't get into fights any more because another blow will cause permanent blindness. I say all this because my brother is proof that fights are avoidable. I'm guessing that the equivalent of a detached retina might give Putin pause the next time he feels provoked. NATO and Ukraine seem willing to provide the blow.

Regarding books. Have you read any of these and can you recommend any to me? Or perhaps a different one that was written within the past 10 or so years and available in English?

Nice analogy, if you are talking about your own country then I can see the similarity with your brother. Well said!
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
maybe Turkey will show more face, too.
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but Turkey recognizes the conflict as a state of war officially now. Effectively this means they can and will block Russian ships from exiting the Black Sea. Despite being an ally of Ukraine and NATO member it’s a messed up situation when anyone needs Erdogan, a mad autocrat himself, for help. Erdogan has a large influence on the minds of many Turks in Europe, so it’s a good thing Erdogan is defying Russia. He mocked the US and NATO for giving merely advice to Ukraine and basically suggested we need to take more decisive action. He’ll take any chance to bitch about the west but it’s a good message for anyone out there: if you’re still siding with Russia, you’re crazier than Erdogan.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Nice analogy, if you are talking about your own country then I can see the similarity with your brother. Well said!
you just make me sad and tired...the same shit out of you, over and over...yes, but America...oh, but what about America...well, how about when America...how about when America told the world putin was a war mongering cur dog, intent on resurrecting the USSR with putin as supreme leader?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Russia-Ukraine conflict: Canadians rally in support of Ukrainian people


Protests are taking place across the globe in support of Ukraine as the invasion by Russia continues, and many are taking to the street right here in Canada with the crisis bringing out a range of emotions.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Nice analogy, if you are talking about your own country then I can see the similarity with your brother. Well said!
We have a real problem with angry rednecks in this country. However, just because we have idiotic angry rednecks in the US does not make Putin's angry response valid. You logic fails.

In your own words: "I would say he was provoked by the US. I would also suggest that he is the kind of person that should not be provoked. He is unstable to say the least and has come to think of his view of the world as the only one. " I completely agree with this. By your words, my analogy fit perfectly. The outcome from his actions are, I think accurate too. If, through their resistance, Ukraine doesn't deliver the blow that reduces Putin's ability to fight, then NATO and other nations will deliver it through sanctions against Russia.

Just look at the situation he's putting himself into. He's not getting any younger and we can contain Russia as long as it takes. The army you brag about has been shown to be inept by a country with much less military capability than Russia has. That's a blow right there. Ukraine's government is handing out guns and ammunition to anybody who asks. Those guns will be in the hands of a population that is hostile to Russian occupation. How many dead soldiers are the people of Russia willing to accept as the occupation grinds on, year after year? That's another blow. How long can Putin hold onto power while his army's morale degrades? That's another blow. How long will his people accept him as a leader when they see all the gains made since 1991 vanish? That's another blow. How long before his band of criminal oligarchs decide to turn on him? That would be a killing blow.

I've said before, I don't understand why Putin chose to invade Ukraine. I agree with your reason. I don't understand it but I accept it.
 
Last edited:

Kerowacked

Well-Known Member
Follow Trump off a fucking cliff!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why the Republican Party Just Can't Get Enough of Vladimir Putin

Did you watch him last night, called Canada communists, he had them in the palm of his hand with his spew on who’s border the potus should be concerned with, “the invasion is HERE!” They love his vomit.
 

Friendly_Grower

Well-Known Member
As a rather new participant of this wonderful website and a (useful idiot ) of YouTube Inc.
I figure that naturally most of the other wonderful participants of this website would be too young to have experienced what the breakup of the Soviet Union really means and how it applies to War on Ukraine by the Russian Federation of today.
I hope one or two of you would like a YouTube education on this subject.
I watched it and give it a Thumbs Up.
It's long but so worth investing your concentration for a either a "Review" or a learning experience.

I humbly offer the "Background" of what is happening with the Russian Federation's war on Ukraine and leave it to you to decide what is right or wrong about Russia invading Ukraine.


Now that I got done. I liked it. I think it's explanatory without being too political. I feel that it is a good resource to add to this thread.

Friendly_Grower
 
Last edited:

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
As a rather new participant of this wonderful website and a (useful idiot ) of YouTube Inc.
I figure that naturally most of the other wonderful participants of this website would be too young to have experienced what the breakup of the Soviet Union really means and how it applies to War on Ukraine by the Russian Federation of today.
I hope one or two of you would like a YouTube education on this subject.
I watched it and give it a Thumbs Up.
It's long but so worth investing your concentration for a either a "Review" or a learning experience.

I humbly offer the "Background" of what is happening with the Russian Federation's war on Ukraine and leave it to you to decide what is right or wrong about Russia invading Ukraine.

The Break-up of the Soviet Union Explained as a primmer for understanding what this War on Ukraine really is about.

Now that I got done. I liked it. I think it's explanatory without being too political. I feel that it is a good resource to add to this thread.

Friendly_Grower
If ya click in the down arrow next to the smiley face you can make the video appear in the thread. Select MEDIA and paste the Youtube url in the box.
1646013011927.png
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

A Prayer for Volodymyr Zelensky
History has found the Ukrainian president, and his courage is remarkable to witness.

Before he became the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky played the part on television. He created and starred in a comedy series, Servant of the People. His character, a high-school history teacher, is surreptitiously recorded by one of his students as he passionately rants against the tyranny of corruption in his nation. Without his knowledge, the video goes viral. Without campaigning or even wanting the job, the teacher is improbably elected president of Ukraine. The humble everyman, out of his depths in nearly every respect, goes on to become a heroic leader of his country.

Entertainers who enter politics are rightly treated with suspicion, because they are experts at the most dangerous part of the job, the manipulation of mass emotion. And in Ukraine, any outsider who rises to power engenders even greater suspicion because the assumption is that they must be doing the bidding of some shadowy force or other. As Zelensky has stumbled through his actual career in politics, those doubts have dogged him. It sometimes seemed as if he governed as an amateur doing his middling best, someone simply playing the part.

But in life, as in the fictional version he created, Zelensky, slightly diminutive and gravelly-voiced, has been subjected to the most intense stress test of character. In the course of the past terrible week, he revealed himself.

Yesterday, Zelensky told a videoconference of European leaders that they would likely not ever see him again. The whole world can see that his execution is very likely imminent. What reason does he have to doubt that Vladimir Putin will order his murder, as the Russian leader has done with so many of his bravest critics and enemies? Zelensky’s fate is so clear that Washington offered to extricate him from Kyiv, so that he could form a government in exile. But Zelensky swatted away the promise of safety. He reportedly preferred that Washington deliver him more arms for his resistance: “The fight is here. I need ammunition, not a ride.”

His willingness to die is testimony to the new Ukraine, which its people are now rallying to protect. Born in the Russian-speaking industrial city of Kryvyi Rih, a bleak metropolis of blast furnaces, Zelensky broke free from the grime with his skill for broad, physical comedy in the style of Benny Hill. Along with a group of his friends, he created a comedy troupe that became one of the most beloved acts in the post-Soviet world. He built an entertainment empire in Russia and could have remained successful in that sphere. But in 2014, after Putin invaded the country of his birth, he donated money to the scraggly Ukrainian army—an act that put him on the wrong side of the Russian government.

Zelensky relocated his production company to Kyiv and began to truly master the Ukrainian language. This wasn’t out of a blood-and-soil attachment to native land. It was an affirmative endorsement of the country he saw Ukraine becoming—the easternmost outpost of cosmopolitan Europe, a place that might elect a Jewish vaudevillian president. That a relative outsider has come to lead that nation—and is willing to die for it—is perhaps the most stirring validation of the cause.

When Zelensky rejected Washington’s offer of exile, he wasn’t making an obvious decision. After Germany invaded France, Charles de Gaulle made his way to London. Or to take a more recent example: Afghan President Ashraf Ghani boarded a helicopter out of Kabul the moment he heard a rumor that the Taliban had entered the city. And, really, who could blame them? Most human beings would rather not have their enemies hang their corpse from a traffic light, the sort of historic antecedent that is hard to shake from the mind.

In Ukraine, the decision for a leader to flee would be the expected choice. It’s what his predecessor, Viktor Yanukovych, did in the aftermath of the revolution in 2014, leaving behind his palace filled with exotic cars and ostriches for the safety of Moscow. The enduring failure of Ukrainian democracy has been the gap between the code of behavior that applies to the elite and the one that the rest of the country must follow. It’s been the elites who profit off the state, who stash their ill-gotten fortunes in French villas and Cypriot bank accounts, while their compatriots have stagnated. By staying put, Zelensky has erased this gap. There’s no airlift awaiting his fellow residents, so rather than accepting the perk of his position, he’s suffering in the same terror and deprivation that they are forced to endure.

A week ago it wasn’t at all obvious that the world would rally to Ukraine’s cause. Nor was it clear that the Ukrainian people would mount a collective resistance to the invasion of their country. There are many reasons why the tide has turned like it has, of course. But it is hard to think of another recent instance in which one human being has defied the collective expectations for his behavior and provided such an inspiring moment of service to the people, clarifying the terms of the conflict through his example.

Last night, Zelensky posted a video of himself standing on the street, speaking into the humble recording device of the smartphone, stubble crusting his face, surrounded by the leadership of the nation, stripped bare of all the trappings of office. “We are still here,” he told the nation. I pray that will be the case tomorrow.
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
Well they have possibly the greatest short story writer in the history of literature in Chekhov. They have a whole slew of the greatest writers of fiction the world has ever seen in Dostoyevsky, Gogol, and Tolstoy. Turgenev's, A Sportsman's sketches is also short story writing to rival Maupassant, even your own Hemmingway or Henry Lawson for that matter. If loss and death and misery are not humane then maybe we need to redefine our terms.
It's funny that you would try and rubbish Russian culture when American literature is still in it's infancy and will probably never advance past that point. The only music you have worth listening to comes via Africa and much of that has become crass gangster talk about money, guns, drugs and women........Your culture is degenerate in every sense best be quiet about culture you have none.
Desperate situations can create people of real character. Like the pressure that creates diamonds.
The style of government you live under has less than nothing to do with the kind of person you are.
The US is in an endgame moment. If the rest of the world stops propping up your economy and calls your bluff then it's game over, lights out, adios....
Very good rebuttal.
they still suck :)
 
Top