hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I do that all the time too. That was why I started just saying Trump trolls (foreign and domestic) I don't really even distinguish them from the trolls that were 'for' Bernie. It's all smoke and mirrors designed to divide us up and in the internet nationality really stops mattering since people can live anywhere.I apologize for using “Russia” as an umbrella; I confess I wanted to keep it simple
Fair enough.At the same time, whether it was explicitly Russian policy to “support” Sanders, there were many cooks involved in the toxic stew being dished out at the time, and which cook dished which ladle of misinformation is slightly less important (to me) than the toxicity and the ubiquity.
Thanks man, it is pretty self serving, because I don't ever want to be blindsided by this kind of attack again, but I am very happy others benefit from it, which is why I came back to this site to at least scream it out into the void. It is nice to think it has helped some see it.I have great respect for your research, and I’ve learned considerable from your posts, so I take you statement of Russian support for Sanders as stated...
I would look at the larger picture, all the attacks on propaganda websites like 'the Hill' or 'the Nation', youtube videos that are funded by the Russian military, Facebook accounts pushing the messaging, accounts across the internet on forums like this where left-trolls attack anything 'establishment'.in which case, their ‘support’ was weak sauce indeed.
I would put it on the trolling that caused the vast majority of bad blood between people who determine themselves in one camp or another.
This is where we diverge. I would point to all that toxicity is the trolling touch that is constant until it creates something that is not there because that is how the human brain works.If it did more than underscore the idea that Sanders is “really a communist’ in the wrong-wing ‘mind’, I’ve yet to see it. The deliberate division sown between HRC supporters and Sanders supporters is still obvious, still toxic, still furious, whoever is due “credit” for it. The wedge driven between the two camps will not be removed within the political lifetimes of Sanders or Clinton: the core of it is that Sanders embraced the “Bernie bros”, voted for Trump, and savaged Clinton throughout the campaign; that Sanders and his supporters are indifferent at best toward women, racial and ethnic minorities - and hostile toward them at best.
When people who are in whatever camp are constantly attacked when they show support, it tricks them into thinking that it is other people doing it, when it is almost all trolls pushing these narratives that people pick up and that is when it becomes reality.
I would point to the fluid nature of the personalized attacks that can be automated. Whatever it is that people will be most likely to fall for is what they end up being spammed with. And that creates the illusion of their agendas being that different. And as those illusions harden, bubbles get formed and people radicalize (my word, might not be totally accurate) themselves into their camps. And as they see those trolls arguments over and over again, and the same troll pushing the narrative they want to harden, that person is essentially learning a 'script' to use if they encounter someone in the real world. Which thanks to entities like Facebook, is hightly predictable, and therefore easy to program arguments when they do.
I agree with all this. I also believe that these feelings are perpetuated via social media and clickbait programming.Even the most extreme “Bernie bro” of my acquaintance is strong in support of women’s issues and women candidates - strong in support for minority issues, the welfare of minority communities, and both candidates of color and organizers of color, strong in opposition to Trump during and after the election: they feel stabbed, dry-gulched, attacked and betrayed for having been moved by Sanders in the first place, treated as scapegoats and sacrificial victims for HRC’s loss and Trump’s win. They don’t appreciate it, they resent it...but no amount of letting it go and attempting to bridge the gap to HRC’s crew has lessened the hostility - or the sense of futility in even trying.
This is what I disagree with. I think that it is more just noise designed to keep us all apart as much as possible. Things like saying 'professional Dems' is where I think you might (no disrespect, Ill explain in this next video) be falling into the propaganda trap. Democrats don't need to be qualified as 'professional' or 'establishment', they are just Democrats, and people who label themselves as something different get programmed into the branding that is only there to divide us up.So, not a Russian operation, but very much in kind with what they *and others* were doing, and with deep and lasting wounds, as we’re seeing begin to play out between the progressive Dems and the professional Dems.