The Final Days of the Trump Administration.

Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Anti-fascists aren't an organization. We don't train for combat. We don't want violence. We don't criticize the few who engage in it. We are a anarchic political movement that oppose fascists.

You completely don't understand what's going on. It's not about war. Think about it for a second. Last year there was footage showing a dozen or so people going at it. They don't show the thousands who stand peacefully in the way of the fascists and block them from marching in our streets. We have clowns, we have people in wheelchairs, we have seniors, we have women carrying. We are the people of Portland standing up to the goons who fly in from all over the country. Three or four people were hospitalized, all Anti-fascists because the goons are pretty good at cracking skulls. We are playing an entirely different game, uncle. The whole point is NOT to defeat the goons through martial might. The point is to create a fuss when the fascists try to take our streets and force the police to come in and break it up. The media is playing up the fracas as though that was the main show. It's not. Maybe for the fascists it is but not for the Anti-fascists.

We are winning too.
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hope it keeps working for you...i guess i don't understand...antifa seems far from a pacifist organization to me, but if you say it's so, let it be so....are the number of planned rallies shrinking? are the numbers (of fascist) attending those rallies shrinking?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
hope it keeps working for you...i guess i don't understand...antifa seems far from a pacifist organization to me, but if you say it's so, let it be so....are the number of planned rallies shrinking? are the numbers (of fascist) attending those rallies shrinking?
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From what I've seen, the fascists are ramping up activity, not stepping down. For instance, just a couple weeks ago:

Proud Boys Spent the Weekend Street Fighting in Portland and New York City
by Lester Black • Oct 15, 2018 at 9:24 am

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/10/15/33890587/joey-gibson-encouraged-proud-boy-violence-in-portland-they-are-going-to-feel-the-pain

Direct quote from Gibson about their fascist attacks:
“There are times when citizens have to step up and do the job that the politicians refuse to do. There are times when citizens do have to step up and clean up the streets but we have to make sure we do it the right way. We will challenge and we will instigate but we do it by marching through these streets. If they want to get in our way then they need to deal with the punishment. We’re not here to punish them. They have a right to be here as long as they are not being violent. But if they want to attack us then they are going to feel the pain, okay? Can I get an Amen?"

The New York "fight" was 30 of his troops surrounding 3 Anti-fascists who were down and they were kicking and punching them until the cops came to stop them from murdering. The reason for the mob violence? One of the Anti-Fascists knocked a hat off a goon's head.

And, before you come back with "well they shouldn't have done that". Yes he shouldn't have done that. Doesn't justify 30 people beating a man who is down, though.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
From what I've seen, the fascists are ramping up activity, not stepping down. For instance, just a couple weeks ago:

Proud Boys Spent the Weekend Street Fighting in Portland and New York City
by Lester Black • Oct 15, 2018 at 9:24 am

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/10/15/33890587/joey-gibson-encouraged-proud-boy-violence-in-portland-they-are-going-to-feel-the-pain

Direct quote from Gibson about their fascist attacks:
“There are times when citizens have to step up and do the job that the politicians refuse to do. There are times when citizens do have to step up and clean up the streets but we have to make sure we do it the right way. We will challenge and we will instigate but we do it by marching through these streets. If they want to get in our way then they need to deal with the punishment. We’re not here to punish them. They have a right to be here as long as they are not being violent. But if they want to attack us then they are going to feel the pain, okay? Can I get an Amen?"

The New York "fight" was 30 of his troops surrounding 3 Anti-fascists who were down and they were kicking and punching them until the cops came to stop them from murdering. The reason for the mob violence? One of the Anti-Fascists knocked a hat off a goon's head.

And, before you come back with "well they shouldn't have done that". Yes he shouldn't have done that. Doesn't justify 30 people beating a man who is down, though.
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no, and that's precisely what i don't understand. with minimal training, those two guys could have defended themselves, they never would have went down. 30 people is one thing, 25 of them running away when they see you're not letting them whip your ass is something else....but, if it's working for you....carry on...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
no, and that's precisely what i don't understand. with minimal training, those two guys could have defended themselves, they never would have went down. 30 people is one thing, 25 of them running away when they see you're not letting them whip your ass is something else....but, if it's working for you....carry on...
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The escalating violence is due to actions by Fascists. I should not have to fear being beaten by them.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Oh, it is very bad news for "replacement rate" minded people. Soon the will have to accept light skinned Puerto Ricans or Asians just to keep up. You would think they would stop shooting up country n western venues.
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That’s what I meant to say but then I did a dyslexia
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
no, you should not...but telling them they shouldn't...i don't think that's going to be very effective....
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What is the objective?

Is it to make them back down through my own violence or is it to give political pressure to stop them once and for all? Trump and his goons' objective quite clearly are to intimidate and cause fear. We refuse to bow down to that yet our objective is what drives our actions. So, what is the objective?
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
What is the objective?

Is it to make them back down through my own violence or is it to give political pressure to stop them once and for all? Trump and his goons' objective quite clearly are to intimidate and cause fear. We refuse to bow down to that yet our objective is what drives our actions. So, what is the objective?
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that's my question to you....i know how to win a fight...i've never figured out how to "passive" a fight...so what is your objective? to make these people stop coming to your city? that doesn't mean they're going to just give up and go away, they're still going to be out there, voting against everything you stand for, harassing people they don't like the looks of...so you'll succeed in driving the locusts from your crops, straight into your neighbors crops.
they aren't going to go away until you make them disperse, till you show them it's not safe for two of them to get together and talk their shit...
if you fumigate one apartment, the roaches just move next door till the poison fades, then they come back. you have to bomb the whole damn building if you want to get rid of them....
so, what IS your objective? to drive the wolf away? or to pull the wolf's teeth so you don't have to worry about it anymore? or something else?.......
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
that's my question to you....i know how to win a fight...i've never figured out how to "passive" a fight...so what is your objective? to make these people stop coming to your city? that doesn't mean they're going to just give up and go away, they're still going to be out there, voting against everything you stand for, harassing people they don't like the looks of...so you'll succeed in driving the locusts from your crops, straight into your neighbors crops.
they aren't going to go away until you make them disperse, till you show them it's not safe for two of them to get together and talk their shit...
if you fumigate one apartment, the roaches just move next door till the poison fades, then they come back. you have to bomb the whole damn building if you want to get rid of them....
so, what IS your objective? to drive the wolf away? or to pull the wolf's teeth so you don't have to worry about it anymore? or something else?.......
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Fogdog said:
OK then, I will just nod at the obnoxious uncle at my Thanksgiving table who tells me how it should be done by violence when I'm out there peacefully taking action and he is not leaving the comfort of his home. I've told you what I'm going to do and still believe that political pressure by the majority, not violence is the best course of action.

The strategy is,
Locals show up in very large numbers to counter demonstrate against the hate group that flies in from all over the country.
At those events, this crowd of local citizenry blocks fascists from marching through our streets to project fascist power and hate.
When the fascists become violent, which they always do, we do whatever we can to defend ourselves and our streets.
The police move in to break up the fascist demonstration and order the fascists to go home.

The objective:
Use the violent actions by fascists to put pressure on the politicians to find legal means to stop them from coming back.

The strategy is working.
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests. He might have the votes to pass it.
OPB Nov. 8, 2018 11:03 a.m. | Portland, Ore.
https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-ted-wheeler-regulate-protests-vote/

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is introducing a controversial ordinance Thursday that would give him the power to dictate the location and length of protests if he fears they pose a threat to public safety.

The ordinance could go to a vote next week.

Wheeler said the ordinance is a response to escalating violence between opposing protesters in Portland’s streets — and to the criticism and negative headlines that follow each brawl.

“Just last week NBC Nightly News ran a 60-minute piece, and during the entire 60 minutes, it just showed people beating the bejesus out of each other on the streets of our city,” Wheeler said in an interview Wednesday. “The implied question is: Where the heck is the mayor and where the heck is the police chief in trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening?”

Though the mayor generally avoids mentioning the groups by name, the ordinance is a response to two years of protests, counter-protests, and occasional brawls between the groups Patriot Prayer and Antifa.

Portland Police Chief Danielle Outlaw said she asked the mayor for “new tools” to deal with protesters after an Aug. 4 march in Portland that drew right-wing extremist groups from across the country and was dubbed “the next Charlottesville” by national media.

We are winning without taking on the same violent tactics the right uses. Just saying, let's give peace a chance.
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