PSP Kills Man In Berks Co., PA with Bulldozer

[londonfog]

A man is dead. He was growing a plant. That is definitely a clear wrong, and a wrong supported by policy is still a wrong. You can justify killing people, I’m fucking done doing it. It’s made me sick.

I wish he was not dead. I wish they would not have killed him over a fucking plant. I wish he would have got up when he heard that big dinosaur machine coming towards him. I wish he would not have laid on the ground hoping the big machine would just past over or by. I wish I had some weed right now

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I fail to see how the plant is necessary to explain the man's death. He created a threatening situation to himself and the cop by running away upon being caught breaking the law. It doesn't matter whether he was growing or not.

I agree that growing MJ should be as legal as growing tomatoes or basil or snapdragons. That said, by his actions, we can be certain the man knew what he was doing at the time was illegal. He escalated the situation and turned it into something altogether different when he ran away. Are you saying the man had every right to flee and the decision to run away was the right one?

I’m saying that police have become too quick to interfere in people’s lives. We have the highest incarceration rate by far, and it is due to a cold politico-economic machine making numbers out of people. This is not normal anywhere but here, the stereotypical extreme capitalist country where someone can invest in another’s punishment and incentivize arrests and pursuits, and getting money and military weapons from the government to use on their own. They need to stay the fuck out of it if no one is getting hurt. And they need to make actual tactical considerations before jumping on a fucking bulldozer in low-visibility, low-mobility situations. I wouldn’t have chased him, they had his buddy and his plates. A 51-year-old local growing ten plants isn’t skipping town.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

the whole thing is ridiculous, and everyone involved should have been wearing clown shoes.
the idiots growing weed on government property were stupid, and shouldn't have been there.
they shouldn't have run, and shouldn't have hidden under brush when you can hear a bulldozer coming.
the cops shouldn't have "commandeered" anything, the operator of the bulldozer should have refused.
the whole thing is an exercise in how stupid everyone involved in a situation can be.
i think the idiot that got run over was at least as responsible as the two idiots who ran him over.
idiots running from idiots, for idiotic reasons, being chased in an idiotic way.......

 

[Olive Drab Green]

the whole thing is ridiculous, and everyone involved should have been wearing clown shoes.
the idiots growing weed on government property were stupid, and shouldn't have been there.
they shouldn't have run, and shouldn't have hidden under brush when you can hear a bulldozer coming.
the cops shouldn't have "commandeered" anything, the operator of the bulldozer should have refused.
the whole thing is an exercise in how stupid everyone involved in a situation can be.
i think the idiot that got run over was at least as responsible as the two idiots who ran him over.
idiots running from idiots, for idiotic reasons, being chased in an idiotic way.......

Maybe that’s fair. I’m not saying it’s a good idea to run from the cops. It’s clearly not, as evidenced by the guy who died (Greg Longenecker, R.I.P.) and everyone before and unfortunately to follow him. I’m just saying, it should piss you off that the people who protect you get you to do what they want by making you afraid to resist, which is part of what America was conceived out of: Resistance to oppression. If that man could grow at home, he probably wouldn’t have been guerrilla growing in the woods.

 

[Fogdog]

I’m saying that police have become too quick to interfere in people’s lives. We have the highest incarceration rate by far, and it is due to a cold politico-economic machine making numbers out of people. This is not normal anywhere but here, the stereotypical extreme capitalist country where someone can invest in another’s punishment and incentivize arrests and pursuits, and getting money and military weapons from the government to use on their own. They need to stay the fuck out of it if no one is getting hurt. And they need to make actual tactical considerations before jumping on a fucking bulldozer in low-visibility, low-mobility situations. I wouldn’t have chased him, they had his buddy and his plates. A 51-year-old local growing ten plants isn’t skipping town.

They wouldn't hire you to be a cop. You are too intelligent.

If you want to change the thread to discuss the militarization and increased use of excessive force by the police, I'm all for it.

As long as we are shifting topics, I'll ask if you think the cop's quick escalation to excessive force would have happened if the country were not awash in guns?

 

[vancityj]

...How much do you want to bet no police officer gets charged with any wrongdoing, let alone negligent homicide?

It may end up as wrongful death in a civil trial.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Maybe that’s fair. I’m not saying it’s a good idea to run from the cops. It’s clearly not, as evidenced by the guy who died (Greg Longenecker, R.I.P.) and everyone before and unfortunately to follow him. I’m just saying, it should piss you off that the people who protect you get you to do what they want by making you afraid to resist, which is part of what America was conceived out of: Resistance to oppression. If that man could grow at home, he probably wouldn’t have been guerrilla growing in the woods.

i agree, with pretty much everything you're saying, and still think they were all stupid. all it would have taken was for one, just one, of these fucking monkeys to inhale long enough for some oxygen to reach their brains, and the guy wouldn't be dead....

 

[Olive Drab Green]

• They wouldn't hire you to be a cop. You are too intelligent.

I appreciate that, right back at you. I’m not trying to be hostile, I’m trying to have legitimate discourse, not simply smear law enforcement.

If you want to change the thread to discuss the militarization and increased use of excessive force by the police, I'm all for it.

As long as we are shifting topics, I'll ask if you think the cop's quick escalation to excessive force would have happened if the country were not awash in guns?

I think violence upon police is a typical response to a police state. I think we need to decrease police ranks to a reasonable level, let people police themselves when most viable a solution, and decrease intrusive laws regarding victimless crimes, because I think most of the chaos is due to the overregulation of peoples’ lives. That’s also where the disconnect comes from. And just like Russia knew psychologically would happen with the US, althought that’s irrelevant, you have a situation with people vehemently opposing each other and feeding each other’s resentments for the other; egos need to cool, everyone needs to step back and rethink this shit, because hatred is more a curse than a gift. We need laws that reflect the will of the people. Then, the cops can be the good guys again. I respect the men and women behind the badge that sincerely do whatcthey do to serve. I saw some shit recently I never thought would occur in my hometown. It’s really getting to a point. If police want to improve relationships with the public, they habe to start listening to what the people want.

 

[Fogdog]

i agree, with pretty much everything you're saying, and still think they were all stupid. all it would have taken was for one, just one, of these fucking monkeys to inhale long enough for some oxygen to reach their brains, and the guy wouldn't be dead....

fear does that to people. The only one in that gang of idiots who had the training that should have overcome the fight-flight hormonal knee-jerk reactions is the cop. This whole tragedy is on him. He's the one that society gave license to use deadly force when necessary. We should be able to depend upon him to make better decisions. It's not equal blame to go around. I can understand how he came to his dumb decision but that doesn't excuse it.

Too bad the laws are written to protect officers from bad decisions.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I believe people should be able to own guns. I think bad guys disproportionately own guns because good people demonize guns. I also don’t want anymore killing, so I’m conflicted, but freedom wins out.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I should be able to walk down the road with a gigantic Claymore in its sheath and my dick swinging behind a kilt and not have one person say shit to me if I don’t say shit to them if I want to smoke weed and play bagpipes while I walk to the grocery store.

But, I guess what I mean is, people are masters of their own destiny. Bad guys will always have guns here. People get hurt when their means of self-defense is restricted. I believe firearms training should be given like a hunter’s safety course, and respect for the weapon and weapons safety should be stressed as of utmost importance.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Furthermore, I believe that disarming the public is a recipe for oppression, and that is also why we were guaranteed the Right to Bear Arms. Obviously, if weapons evolve, you can’t defend yourself against a semiautomatic pistol with a muzzle loading dueling pistol.

 

[Fogdog]

I appreciate that, right back at you. I’m not trying to be hostile, I’m trying to have legitimate discourse, not simply smear law enforcement.

I think violence upon police is a typical response to a police state. I think we need to decrease police ranks to a reasonable level, let people police themselves when most viable a solution, and decrease intrusive laws regarding victimless crimes, because I think most of the chaos is due to the overregulation of peoples’ lives. That’s also where the disconnect comes from. And just like Russia knew psychologically would happen with the US, you have a situation with people vehemently opposing each other and feeding each other’s resentments for the other; egos need to cool, everyone needs to step back and rethink this shit, because hatred is more a curse than a gift. We need laws that reflect the will of the people. Then, the cops can be the good guys again. I respect the men and women behind the badge that sincerely do whatcthey do to serve. I saw some shit recently I never thought would occur in my hometown. It’s really getting to a point. If police want to improve relationships with the public, they habe to start listening to what the people want.

I can give you anecdotes where cops did make the right decision and did not wrongly escalate to deadly force. Also, in my town, the Mayor and Chief of Police have come out strongly in support of "sanctuary city" policies, saying they want people to not be afraid of the police. I live in Oregon and it might be different here. IDK.

I am concerned about the militarization of the police in this country. That said, the police cannot allow themselves to be outgunned and lose control of the streets. I think the proliferation of military style weapons and body armor in both the public and law enforcement arenas is insane. I don't subscribe to the idea that people should take the law into their own hands and am willing to fund a justice system that is chartered with enforcement of laws to maintain the peace.

 

[Fogdog]

Furthermore, I believe that disarming the public is a recipe for oppression, and that is also why we were guaranteed the Right to Bear Arms. Obviously, if weapons evolve, you can’t defend yourself against a semiautomatic pistol with a muzzle loading dueling pistol.

I'll just say that I disagree with this position. More guns don't make people more safe.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I can give you anecdotes where cops did make the right decision and did not wrongly escalate to deadly force. Also, in my town, the Mayor and Chief of Police have come out strongly in support of "sanctuary city" policies, saying they want people to not be afraid of the police. I live in Oregon and it might be different here. IDK.

I am concerned about the militarization of the police in this country. That said, the police cannot allow themselves to be outgunned and lose control of the streets. I think the proliferation of military style weapons and body armor in both the public and law enforcement arenas is insane. I don't subscribe to the idea that people should take the law into their own hands and am willing to fund a justice system that is chartered with enforcement of laws to maintain the peace.

Honestly? Fully automatic is useless as a rifleman; rather, you don’t really use it. You need a tax stamp for anything fully automatic in the US and that does take time. Like, a year or more. Meanwhile, bad guys are still acquiring off the books or stolen automatic firearms, laws or no laws.

But, yeah. You don’t usually use the fully automatic option in combat unless you’re a SAW gunner or 240 gunner. As a rifleman, your job is accurate, well-placed shots while the AR or MG keeps heads down; the suppressing element maintains that concentrated, sustained suppressing fire with riflemen taking out targets of opportunity, while the assault element bounds through the objective (keyword: through) to the limit of advance. There’s nothing different between a semiautomatic AR and a semi-automatic hunting rifle, as long as they both have picatinny rails and detachable box mags, neither of which should be regulated.

 

[doublejj]

It's not like everybody and their kids have high power firearms....

 

[Olive Drab Green]

It's not like everybody and their kids have high power firearms....

I think kids should be taught how to handle and respect a weapon. I think part of that is recognizing that a gun is not a toy. Goofy pictures like this are cool and all, as long a you are maintaining weapons safety (i.e. not loaded, magazine removed or empty, weapon on safe, muzzle properly oriented) and not encouraging them to be immature with a weapon otherwise.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I dunno about stuff like Uzis abd Tech-DC9s, though, especially that young. Let kids be kids and not worry about death and killing while they still can. Start them with a regular rifle around age 10-12, that way they respect a gun as a gun, no matter the model. Take them hunting. Bond. Teach them fieldcraft. Girls, too. Your involvement and guidance is THE. Most. Important. Fucking. Thing.

 

[doublejj]

Read up on how many rounds were fired in the Nevada massacre...

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Read up on how many rounds were fired in the Nevada massacre...

Will do.