Canada Grows to the 4 Plant Limit

[Photon Flinger]

QB is discrete diode. The diodes just happen to be white.

Fundamentals are what is important as they apply to all led sources. Even cheapo chinese cobs. At $2 run 100 of them at 5w each.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

QB is discrete diode. The diodes just happen to be white.

Fundamentals are what is important as they apply to all led sources. Even cheapo chinese cobs. At $2 run 100 of them at 5w each.

I've seen some cool QB builds on here, I think Old Mother Sativa is into em. Used to run 100 watt flood light cobs at 50 watts, still do for a few air cooled lamps, but they will soon be give aways, not the most efficient, but they sure grew plants. I used to grow back in the stone age, before all this newfangled technology, even AC COBs are amazing when compared to what people used to use, some are still using HID! (I know the efficacy compares with LED, but the light distribution sucked, as does the spectrum for most bulbs and ya gotta change em. There was enough heat to roast the Devil!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Seeds
I don't know that much about seeds and breeding, if you do, post some info for new folks. I just know what most people in this game know and will try to explain it to the novices and those doing their research in preparation for the D day landing, let's help em hit the beaches a running. They will overwhelm the foe with sheer numbers. Remember, in the USA the NRA is an astroturf organization with 2 million members and a lot of industry funding (and control), a few fanatics can do a lot. If you don't think a small group of determined people can change the world, tell me when it has been otherwise...

There are many options for those who want to start growing and who don't want, or don't have access to clones. Though that could change, it's largely up to us, if a breeder has an unstabilized high CBD strain with medicinal properties, they should be able to sell clones by mail, if not, we can make it so. Canada has many reputable and long established seed banks, just go online and have a boo.

For most growers, cannabis breaks down into two basic types, indicas and sativas, with many crosses and hybrids. Auto flowers are popular with some and can offer advantages, but you can't clone them, a great choice for outdoor use in Canada. I don't know if outdoor growing will be allowed initially, another day, another court challenge, grist for the mill of the grower's associations and garden clubs.

Most growers choose a hybrid strain, a mix of Indica and Sativa strains and there are many variations, in taste, odour and cannabinoid content. Some skunk strains have that name for a good reason, cause it smells like one died under yer back porch, show the neighbors some consideration and use a carbon filter. It depends on your purpose, to get high or treat a medical condition, or maybe a mix of the two, it's your business. Almost everybody cuts clones and uses them, once they find a strain they like or that is useful, others are always trying new things. Indica dominant strains are shorter, high yielding and potent and are favored by many, a good evening choice and great soporific for medical patients or those who would like a nice restful sleep. Sativa's generally take longer to flower are taller and less dense ( some are vine like) and have a different kind of high, more of an active thing and best suited to daytime use. Over the years breeders have done amazing things and the old days of planting seeds ya got in the bag are long gone, a new age has arrived.

Many seeds you buy are genetically stabilized and generally produce consistent results, though Gregor Mendel's laws are at play and it will be always a game of odds. Most of the seeds you get will be feminized to make sure the vast majority of the sprouts will be female, better quality female seeds produce plants with few hermaphrodites. Just as in humans, so it is true for plants, sometimes the area concerning sexuality becomes blurry, with plants we get rid of em, with humans we cherish and value them.

Most people start a few seeds, cut some clones off the veg plants and propagate them, before the mother plants are put into flower. That way they have a copy of the genetics, selection of the strain to keep and propagate again are based on the results of flowering and use. Keep what ya like and chuck the rest.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Starting Seeds & Seedlings
When your seeds arrive plant them as soon as you can, seeds have a best before date, though they will remain viable for a year or more, after a certain point an increasing percentage will fail to sprout as time goes by (The experts might want to chime in here). There are many threads on this forum that go into detail about seed strains and host of other gardening related subjects. Youtube is another source of great show and tell stuff and can be a good source of information. Avoid many of the stoned up my garden tour videos, most are low information content and are, "ain't my garden great" focused, most don't exactly have good production values and you'll get dizzy watching many, as the phones used to record them moves around a bit. Expect lots of well produced videos from Canadian DIY light builders (probably me too), growers, seed sellers, grow stores and breeders, all full of information that you can use in your grow.

Most people start seeds in either a damped paper towel kept in a dark warm place or directly in soil, though there are many other methods and I'm sure you'll see them shared around here or places like it on this forum. I don't need to go into the details because it's been covered extensively in other places and the information is as easy to find as going to Google or Youtube. I'll focus on the problem that most novices face, lighting, for seedlings and small young vegetative plants. The solution is as simple as a 100 watt (15 watt) dollar store LED light bulb, or two or three or however many you need to cover the youngins. Remove the plastic diffuser globe, some are a bitch to get off, but they'll pry loose with a little work and patience. Warm white would be a good choice for seedlings when you're rooting em, then add or switch over to 5000k cool white bulbs. Hang the bub(s) 6" to a foot above the seedlings, depending on how many bulbs you're using, if you notice the seedlings stretching toward the light and the stems elongating, move the light closer to the seedlings and use 5000K cool white bulbs, if you're not already. With seedlings and vegetative plants you can use a 18 or 24 hour photoperiod for 30% faster growth. Cannabis does not need a night cycle, some plants do, but cannabis is not one of them, if you want faster results use 24/7 lighting, to slow things down go back to 18hrs of light a day.

This should get you going until your store bought light arrives or your DIY lamp is ready and you can put the now partly grown veg plants under it. For vegging most people use 5000k cool white COBs or use the veg setting on their store bought unit. Growing the plants out a bit with LED light bulbs before putting the plants under your regular lamp is more efficient, because you'll light more canopy and less wasted space. Once your plants reach a certain, point growth will accelerate quickly, if they're under enough light with warm temperatures. A small fan should be blowing in the area, but not directly on the plants, you want it to just gently move the leaves. With young seedlings, don't use a fan, but wait until a few sets of leaves are established, like all babies, they must be treated with kindness and caring.

For testing purposes, many people veg plants to about a foot or two only before flowering after cutting clones and making sure they're rooted. After the plants have flowered and you're happy with the results, pick your favorite, based on potency or effect, plant robustness or any other criteria you like. With quality feminized and genetically stabilized seeds, there shouldn't be much difference between the phenotypes (individuals) of the same strain and choosing one to propagate might be difficult.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Canadian Boomer Contest
"XNY556 A for apple calling..." What's the return call sign? Only a Canadian boomer would know... Reply back and win a free "like". If you lived in a certain time and place, you'll know. It's kinda like the secret decoder rings they gave away to kids for radio contests in another age.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Other Experienced People Who Post Here
To those who are new here, some of the Canadians who post on this thread have some pretty cool setups and builds that are well described and very helpful, if you click on their logo you can see their threads and posts. Many of the Canadians who are posting here have solved your problems already, visit their threads and rattle their cages! Most like me, would like to help, share experience and tips, that's why we're here, feel free to ask.

If any experienced Canadians would like to link to their threads in their posts here or who have new stuff on there and would like to announce it, feel free to put a link to your threads in the post, people need as many options and as much info as we can give em. This is an "open" thread, I don't own it.

The help is free, at least from me...

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Saving on DIY & Grow Costs
I was down visiting my sister the other day and dropped into a moving/yard sale next door. I bought an almost new Black and Decker plunge cut router, a router bit and a heavy duty 12- 15 ft extension cord for $20, I passed on other tools and a heavy duty hot air gun (I'm too full of it myself, and don't need no stink'n gun). I can use the router on woodworking projects and also for milling aluminum, might even be able to mill heat sink fins or increase the surface area of other aluminum extrusions. If you wanna build and grow cheap like me, don't pass up yard sales for anything that might be useful.


If I decide to build a DIY CNC (Computer Numeric Control) machine this might make a nice power head for it, though I think old printer parts and stepper motors might not be up to the job of moving it around accurately, less mass would be more desirable.

Ya never know what you'll come up with in a salvage yard so I always keep my eyes open. Did you know that many of the guys who work at salvage yards like to puff and are quite friendly fellows when treated with dignity and respect. I'll leave the rest to your imagination, but whenever they see me coming ,"the junkyard dogs" tails a start to wagging and their tongues hang out. You would be simply amazed at what they can keep an eye out for and set aside for you, I pay like a regular customer at the bosses desk, but I get what I'm looking for. Be resourceful, it's not about just spending money to get what you want, but being creative and spreading joy. Try spreading a little joy at your local junk yard, some milk bones for the doggies would be nice touch too.


There are no grow stores in my area, but I can get nuits and other such essentials at the local farmers co-op for a good price. Coco coir blocks of good quality for growing can be obtained at a local Home Hardware store, probably cheaper than a grow store. Until recently I was producing 1 LB+ plants in plastic milk crates lined with cheap widely available weed barrier cloth to make air pruning pots, I'm now testing larger grow bags. Ph and ppm meter are from ebay or Amazon with free delivery.

I recently economically recharged my activated charcoal filter with new better quality charcoal from Amazon (free shipping) for a much lower cost than buying a new one and getting it shipped. I just drilled out the rivets near the inlet and replaced them with sheet metal screws when the job was done, works great. Carbon is cheaper in Canada on Amazon, I guess, cause we got lots of trees...

Recharging Your Activated Carbon Filter
Changing the carbon is quick and easy, remove the cover dump out the lower quality carbon granules and dump in the new better quality pellets, shake it to settle it and apply the thick foam seal and cover, fasten with sheet metal screws to finish. There's a fine nylon cloth mesh inside the holed metal case to keep small particles in. If you fill it and settle it with a little shaking the foam in the top will keep it tight. Put enough carbon in so the the foam top seal presses it gently when the lid is put back on, the carbon shouldn't move if you shake the filter. By cover I mean the top of the filter, where the hose hooks on.

I've even got some carbon left over, so the next time it will be cheaper. I might even DIY a carbon filter with the leftovers, I've got an old air cleaner ($2 thrift store) that would work just great as one, with a few simple modifications. Stay tuned, when I get around to it I'll post the hack with all the gory details.

If your want an activated carbon filter recharge this is the best I could come up with, If you know of a cheaper alternative post it here.
https://www.amazon.ca/Loving-Pets-E...505049642&sr=8-98&keywords=activated+charcoal

Perhaps a better name for the thread would have been, "A Cheap Old Canadian Grows Pot" or maybe, "Rednecks's Ghetto Grow"!

 

[Photon Flinger]

You can get some more out of the old carbon by cooking it for a while. I toss mine into a big steel pot and put it on the bar-b-q for a few hours. It will cook off the vocs.

For help with drying/curing, collect up all those desiccant/silica packages used for humidity control and use them to bring humidity down. You can recharge some of them (check first) by heating them to 375f for 24 hours and then storing them in a sealed container ready for next use.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

You can get some more out of the old carbon by cooking it for a while. I toss mine into a big steel pot and put it on the bar-b-q for a few hours. It will cook off the vocs.

For help with drying/curing, collect up all those desiccant/silica packages used for humidity control and use them to bring humidity down. You can recharge some of them (check first) by heating them to 375f for 24 hours and then storing them in a sealed container ready for next use.

Great suggestion and a very good idea. I thought about sticking it in the oven, but figured the stink would fill the house. As for desiccants, I wonder if that blue stuff they sell for cats would work, will have to have a closer look at the bag next time I'm at at the store, I'll update ya if I figure it's useful. If not, I've got a cat who shits on a regular basis.

 

[tombsy]

QB is discrete diode. The diodes just happen to be white.

Fundamentals are what is important as they apply to all led sources. Even cheapo chinese cobs. At $2 run 100 of them at 5w each.

What's the highest wattage you can run say a clu-048 before needed to a passive pin heatsink?

I like the idea of running many cobs with minimal heatsinks. The heatsinks are what drive my price per light way up.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Photon Flinger is yer man for running COBs low heat, read our back and forth further up the thread. There are threads on here that deal with calculating stuff like that and a search of the threads for keywords would be useful. All gardens have a fan and one mounted on the wall or even ceiling above passive heatsinks can do a lot to increase the heat load they can handle. The rule of thumb is you need 5 times more heatsink capacity for passive cooling than active, so blowing a little air over passive heatsinks dramatically increases their performance. You gotta put energy into the grow and 2/3's of it will be heat if the cobs are operated near the recommended currents. You could buy 20 watt drivers and run the light at 100 watts, but you'll get less bud along with less heat. Not much heat sinking, will require lots of COBs driven at low current and that means more holders, tapping, money etc. Things have pretty much evolved into a standard DIY design that uses quality COBs, a meanwell driver, frame and either passive heatsinks (pin or bar) or the same version with less heatsink capacity but with active cooling. Most of the builds you'll see are much the same, whether passive or actively cooled. The 81 watt COBs you're using are a bit less powerful than the 100+watt COBS they use in these designs (Vero29, CXB3590 or CLU048 ). Heatsinks are the biggest and most difficult issue most builders face, most things in life are a compromise and this ain't no different.

Efficiency isn't as big an issue for Canadians as it is for most, we can use the heat most of the year anyway. The heat your grow emits is useful most of the year, if you can capture it and not blow it out a vent along with humidity and that's something else some Canadian houses could use more of in winter.

This is why I suggested that some Canadian who lives in an area where they can get heatsink extrusions cheap or wholesale, go into the mail order heatsink business. You tell em the COBs and holder you'll be using and the spacing and they can customize (or not) your heatsink for you. A pre drilled and tapped heatsink simplifies things for most folks. I use junkyards, local metal suppliers and water cooled designs to address these issues, not for everybody though.

There are some who recently built and who posted details on this thread, click on their icon, PM or go to their thread and suck their (drug addled) brains, most here share a passion and are more than willing to help. Some of the old hands have excellent threads, again click on the icon to get there.

 

[Photon Flinger]

What's the highest wattage you can run say a clu-048 before needed to a passive pin heatsink?

I like the idea of running many cobs with minimal heatsinks. The heatsinks are what drive my price per light way up.

There you go, a smart person!

I don't run citizen, maybe @CobKits can help you with that question. It is around 20w for the vero 29c on its own before it needs help sinking from what I can tell.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

There ya go, ya got this one...

 

[Photon Flinger]

Photon Flinger is yer man for running COBs low heat, read our back and forth further up the thread. There are threads on here that deal with calculating stuff like that and a search of the threads for keywords would be useful. All gardens have a fan and one mounted on the wall or even ceiling above passive heatsinks can do a lot to increase the heat load they can handle. The rule of thumb is you need 5 times more heatsink capacity for passive cooling than active, so blowing a little air over passive heatsinks dramatically increases their performance. You gotta put energy into the grow and 2/3's of it will be heat if the cobs are operated near the recommended currents. You could buy 20 watt drivers and run the light at 100 watts, but you'll get less bud along with less heat. Not much heat sinking, will require lots of COBs driven at low current and that means more holders, tapping, money etc. Things have pretty much evolved into a standard DIY design that uses quality COBs, a meanwell driver, frame and either passive heatsinks (pin or bar) or the same version with less heatsink capacity but with active cooling. Most of the builds you'll see are much the same, whether passive or actively cooled. The 81 watt COBs you're using are a bit less powerful than the 100+watt COBS they use in these designs (Vero29, CXB3590 or CLU048 ). Heatsinks are the biggest and most difficult issue most builders face, most things in life are a compromise and this ain't no different.

Efficiency isn't as big an issue for Canadians as it is for most, we can use the heat most of the year anyway. The heat your grow emits is useful most of the year, if you can capture it and not blow it out a vent along with humidity and that's something else some Canadian houses could use more of in winter.

This is why I suggested that some Canadian who lives in an area where they can get heatsink extrusions cheap or wholesale, go into the mail order heatsink business. You tell em the COBs and holder you'll be using and the spacing and they can customize (or not) your heatsink for you. A pre drilled and tapped heatsink simplies things for most folks. I use junkyards, local metal suppliers and water cooled designs to address these issues, not for everybody though.

There are some who recently built and who posted details on this thread, click on their icon, PM or go to their thread and suck their (drug addled) brains, most here share a passion and are more than willing to help. Some of the old hands have excellent threads, again click on the icon to get there.

Yeah but I am on the far extreme end of the efficiency side using what some would call overkill for light sources. Maybe it is a Canadian thing to challenge the status quo, but in this case, simple math shows the better path to take for a given amount of power. More light, less heat. Less heat, less heat sinks. Less heat sinks, more led. More led, more light.

LEDs were over driven back when they were pricey which is why they used heat sinks. It is just a carry over from the old days that is no longer needed anymore but people still buy them.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yeah but I am on the far extreme end of the efficiency side using what some would call overkill for light sources. Maybe it is a Canadian thing to challenge the status quo, but in this case, simple math shows the better path to take for a given amount of power. More light, less heat. Less heat, less heat sinks. Less heat sinks, more led. More led, more light.

LEDs were over driven back when they were pricey which is why they used heat sinks. It is just a carry over from the old days that is no longer needed anymore but people still buy them.

I hear ya brother, if you looked through my other thread, you'll see my designs aren't exactly standard issue either! There will be as many approaches to this problem as there are DIY builders. When the price of COBs go down and folks can run'em the way you want, my low cost build recommendations would probably be a simple aluminum "C" channel extrusion with the COBs held on with cheap double sided adhesive CPU thermal tape and a couple of fans, or not.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

What's the highest wattage you can run say a clu-048 before needed to a passive pin heatsink?

I like the idea of running many cobs with minimal heatsinks. The heatsinks are what drive my price per light way up.

If you do run the COBs at 20 watts and buy more, it might just be possible to use double sided CPU adhesive tape to mount the COBs if you used a good heatsink and can maintain a decent thermal differential between the COB and the sink. Since you'll be dealing with an approximately 1 square inch COB surface area and 15 watts of heat (best to overestimate), so the heat load will be 15 watts per square inch. Look up the specs for thermal CPU tape (add a safety margin), do some metric conversion and then do some cypher'en.

That is if yer the adventurous type and would like to push the envelope of what's cheap and possible. Not for the faint of heart though!

WARNING: What you're getting into can be addicting as well as challenging,

If you build, don't forget to share your experience and a pic of yer rig. There's nothing wrong with pride, it's the just reward for accomplishment, just don't get too carried away!

 

[CobKits]

What's the highest wattage you can run say a clu-048 before needed to a passive pin heatsink?

I like the idea of running many cobs with minimal heatsinks. The heatsinks are what drive my price per light way up.

you emailed me but ill answer here so everyone can see it

1/4" thick flat sheet can do up to 15-20W/chip depending on area.

the cheap 2" extrusions from heat usa prob cool as well. in any case thin metal like baking sheets etch doesnt dissipate heat like thicker metal does.

with a good finned heatsink you can get away with 3/16" thinckness. for flat palte with no fins 1/4" or thicker is best.

finned extrusions win on amount of heat dissipated per wigth of aluminum and arent ridiculously expensive. everybody was using them before pinfins became popular

 

[tombsy]

you emailed me but ill answer here so everyone can see it

1/4" thick flat sheet can do up to 15-20W/chip depending on area.

the cheap 2" extrusions from heat usa prob cool as well. in any case thin metal like baking sheets etch doesnt dissipate heat like thicker metal does.

with a good finned heatsink you can get away with 3/16" thinckness. for flat palte with no fins 1/4" or thicker is best.

finned extrusions win on amount of heat dissipated per wigth of aluminum and arent ridiculously expensive. everybody was using them before pinfins became popular

Cheers! Thanks for responding here. I didn't want to drag you into the dirty Canadian forum...

 

[Photon Flinger]

If you do run the COBs at 20 watts and buy more, it might just be possible to use double sided CPU adhesive tape to mount the COBs if you used a good heatsink and can maintain a decent thermal differential between the COB and the sink. Since you'll be dealing with an approximately 1 square inch COB surface area and 15 watts of heat (best to overestimate), so the heat load will be 15 watts per square inch. Look up the specs for thermal CPU tape (add a safety margin), do some metric conversion and then do some cypher'en.

That is if yer the adventurous type and would like to push the envelope of what's cheap and possible. Not for the faint of heart though!

WARNING: What you're getting into can be addicting as well as challenging,

If you build, don't forget to share your experience and a pic of yer rig. There's nothing wrong with pride, it's the just reward for accomplishment, just don't get too carried away!

15w of heat from running at only 20w? More like the other way around 5w for heat and 15 for light. It is probably even less heat than that.

The big improvement with this generation of led is the lower heat waste. Take a look at the Bridgelex data sheets for example, 0.04c/W for the Vero 29c @ 1710ma. At 20w that would be 0.8c delta and probably wouldn't even keep a coffee warm.

 

[CobKits]

Cheers! Thanks for responding here. I didn't want to drag you into the dirty Canadian forum...

hey i like canadians. dirtier the better

15w of heat from running at only 20w? More like the other way around 5w for heat and 15 for light. It is probably even less heat than that.

naw even at 20W per chip youve got 7-8W of heat to deal with. theyre not that much more dramatically efficient. if you want to get to 70% efficiency you need to be 5-10W/chip