Microsoft Laying Off THOUSANDS..

greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
I see. Why would we not see job declines from attrtion? Presumably they publish employee numbers in 10K filing?
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Take a look. The press release won't mention them and they don't need to disclose them as part of a layoff. But they are probably reflected in year to year employee numbers somewhere.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Days, no. But sometime in the next 6 months things are going to get pretty tight.
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Care to put some stakes on that? Maybe a week of not posting if you are wrong? If you are right, I'll gladly put up an apology to you and stop posting for a week while @tampee , sky, you and pad mock me.

I agree with both of you that the economy is sick and will go through a correction soon. A correction. Like what typically happens every few years after a period of growth. There is no great depression on the horizon, six months to a year. There. I said it.

Microsoft is a sick tech company. It has been so for a long time. This kind of growth, then bust cycle is common in tech industry and doesn't necessarily mean a larger economic collapse.

I think @schuylaar is seeing lags in payment correctly in that they do indicate a slowdown is imminent.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
Microsoft could absorb most of those resources if they had a need for them. More likely the green light to bolt overseas is what they are looking at. Cheaper labor and hidden profits, and without gates running the ship the course is changing.

Like it or not, a huge chunk of talent is retiring. And they aren't being replaced in this country. State colleges especially have decided that science and research isn't worth investing in. So we aren't producing great engineers in the quantity we once did. I see it everyday when we try to hire people. They have all kinds of certifications but no knowledge or experience. They don't learn quickly. They were never taught to actually think.

So this action from MS may have nothing to do with product investment and more to do with restructuring for a new offshore workforce. It's happened at countless other tech companies. MS was just slow to the game.
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I don't know, man. I've been part of hiring teams and was impressed with the number of well qualified entry level knowledge workers who apply. We'd hire a few, begin to bring their skill levels up, then see them laid off when management had second thoughts about their bets. We'd lose some experienced people too. A lot of our knowledge-worker shortages are due to unrealistic expectations that good students in College are ready to operate in today's tech workplace. It's not as if the foreign workers were any better, they weren't bad but not superior. Much of the offshoring I saw was because of huge tax and grant benefits offered by Singapore, China and India. Sure workers were cheaper but I always found longer cycle times, delays and miscommunication due to distance weren't worth saving from the lower wages.

One thing on my bug list is the attempt to run tech companies by management who are really trained to be finance managers and not tech.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
But not mentioned in the release is they will be increasing contractors. It's a move from employee to contractor. There will still be a lot of US jobs lost. You don't see them because of attrition. People leave or retire or are fired. They don't get replaced. Still a job loss. Just not a layoff.
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Yup aka employee >>>>>>> 1099s so they can work unlimited hours even better than the hiring of part time >30hrs = no benefits.

Wait until the IRS gets ahold of that replacing full time employees with 1099s there's the little business of misclassification..one thing that the IRS and States dislike more than the 'cash' of restaurants, is the misclassification of employees. It's not just about the benefits they don't wish to pay- it's the taxes. When this occurs they fine you BOTH sides of SS/Med, yours and the employees.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
tampee said:
Our economy is already fucked the only reason we are pushing American imperialism across the world. Gadaffi was in the process of creating a gold backed currency Saddam tried to only accept Euros so we killed them both. Our economy is beyond repair we can never pay back our debt so we must have war.
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cute.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Yup aka employee >>>>>>> 1099s so they can work unlimited hours even better than the hiring of part time >30hrs = no benefits.

Wait until the IRS gets ahold of that replacing full time employees with 1099s there's the little business of misclassification..one thing that the IRS and States dislike more than the 'cash' of restaurants, is the misclassification of employees. It's not just about the benefits they don't wish to pay- it's the taxes. When this occurs they fine you BOTH sides of SS/Med, yours and the employees.
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won't happen under Trump.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If corporations and their stockholders won't treat workers with respect, why should workers keep treating corporations with respect?

I say it's time to raise taxes and end their legalized political bribery privileges.
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The 'good old days' that they seek, had these three simple things:

  • GI Bill (homes)
  • Taxed the Wealthy (balanced budget)
  • Invested in American Infrastructure (jobs, tourism and more jobs)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
The 'good old days' that they seek, had these three simple things:

  • GI Bill (homes)
  • Taxed the Wealthy (balanced budget)
  • Invested in American Infrastructure (jobs, tourism and more jobs)
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Yep, meanwhile the way things are now also existed in the past; right before October 1929. The Republicans were responsible for it that time, too.

When will Americans ever learn? Maybe never with the way school funding has been shredded over the years. More Republican handiwork right there, imagine that!
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
The 'good old days' that they seek, had these three simple things:

  • GI Bill (homes)
  • Taxed the Wealthy (balanced budget)
  • Invested in American Infrastructure (jobs, tourism and more jobs)
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There was this thing called McCarthysim and black listing people. Also segregation, although you would just call that tribalism.

Let's just say that some things were pretty good back then. Unions were strong and you are correct in that a higher percentage of the federal budget was payed for by corporations. Individual income taxes paid hasn't changed much. Given the regressive nature of this tax, one can infer that the wealthy are paying about the same as in the 50's. Tax rates were high but so too were deductions and write-offs. The shockingly higher payroll taxes might explain a lot about why jobs and middle income earners are feeling pinched today compared to 60+ years ago.

 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
There was this thing called McCarthysim and black listing people. Also segregation, although you would just call that tribalism.

Let's just say that some things were pretty good back then. Unions were strong and you are correct in that a higher percentage of the federal budget was payed for by corporations. Individual income taxes paid hasn't changed much. Given the regressive nature of this tax, one can infer that the wealthy are paying about the same as in the 50's. Tax rates were high but so too were deductions and write-offs. The shockingly higher payroll taxes might explain a lot about why jobs and middle income earners are feeling pinched today compared to 60+ years ago.

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It's not just about taxes, but a healthy mix of investing in a country and it's people.

No one was talking about the era in terms of social (segregation, McCarthyism) rather overall 'basics' of economics.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
It has nothing to do with my company..we invoice as a courtesy with contractual obligation..as a result no one gets paid.

As luck would have it..everyone's bonus in my organization is tied to me and what I do.
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and would this bonus talent of yours require the use of mouth or hands???
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
It's not just about taxes, but a healthy mix of investing in a country and it's people.

No one was talking about the era in terms of social (segregation, McCarthyism) rather overall 'basics' of economics.
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We can't ignore segregation and exploitation of African Americans in the south and elsewhere when talking about how well off white people were in the '50's.

Totally agree that in some ways the US was more progressive then than now. But then too, white people were only more progressive towards other whites. Still, we built the superhighway system, thousands of schools and libraries, and with the help of African Americans, invented Rock and Roll. It was happy days. Also the US was the only major economy not rocked by WW2. Major superpower, exporting to the world as it rebuilds.

I don't think the 50's were so great. We sowed the seeds of today's discontent back then by shuffling problems under the rug. I very much regret the US's actions in the Middle East which culminated in the formation of Israel. And, we can't ignore social equality when talking about the economy.
 
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