Whites and blacks in US 'disagree on racism'

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Sure they are. Just at not nearly the same rate. I'm seeing unarmed black people killed by the police all of the time, while white guys actually shoot at the police and live to tell about it.
An unarmed black person was killed by the police every 9 days last year. That seems a little high to me.
Do you not think that the black community itself doesn't have real problems that go beyond the police? Because it's pretty obvious that they do. Almost every black child is raised in a single parent household. The results are disasterous. Criminality, teen pregnancy, school drop out rates, poverty, STI rates, rates of risky behavior in general, low empathy... all very highly correlated to single parenthood.

Most black people are killed by other black people. Most white people are killed by other white people. Most hispanics are killed by other hispanics. Asians tend to have ridiculously low rates of violence and crime in general, but as far as murder is concerned it's the same situation. Also tend to be more successful in general (higher average income, more likely to attend post secondary etc.). They're not white, what advantage do they have? They also dealt with some pretty serious persecution as well.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I didn't bring you into it, you brought yourself into it, and I am totally fine with you staying out of it. Do you want me to lay out how the discussion went down so you can see what you were responding to in the first place?
Nope, it's quite likely they were having fun with you and I stepped in it.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Do you not think that the black community itself doesn't have real problems that go beyond the police? Because it's pretty obvious that they do. Almost every black child is raised in a single parent household. The results are disasterous. Criminality, teen pregnancy, school drop out rates, poverty, STI rates, rates of risky behavior in general, low empathy... all very highly correlated to single parenthood.

Most black people are killed by other black people. Most white people are killed by other white people. Most hispanics are killed by other hispanics. Asians tend to have ridiculously low rates of violence and crime in general, but as far as murder is concerned it's the same situation. Also tend to be more successful in general (higher average income, more likely to attend post secondary etc.). They're not white, what advantage do they have? They also dealt with some pretty serious persecution as well.
Which part of your soliloquy deals with the police systematically executing unarmed black people?
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Which part of your soliloquy deals with the police systematically executing unarmed black people?
I don't think executing anyone unarmed is acceptable, got a source for your statistic?

Perhaps a better question:

What brings police to the neighbourhoods? Is it pure racism, or is it that black people are committing a lot more crimes on average than other groups? And the reason for this basically the same reason native communities in Canada have been decimated. The family unit was obliterated.
 

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
Nope, it's quite likely they were having fun with you and I stepped in it.
Well guess what skippy, you're gettin' it anyways. Because you couldn't be bothered to actually pay attention to context, here it is laid out for you all together like.

We start with the back and forth between bigots on both sides:
blacks are lower percentage of the population but commit the majority of murders. Obviously as a black person you are more likely to be killed by a black person than a white person is by another white person.
White people are, by far, the most violent people in the history of the world.
Then I come in:
Violence is ubiquitous to humanity all across the globe, and always has been. Every culture on the planet was and is violent, against its own people and against others. Singling out any group as the prime perpetrators by something as intangible as race is both naive and inane.
Then the nonsense response:
American history seems to tell a different story.
Then the part that you latched onto and quoted:
How so? American history is filled with violence, just liked the history of every nation on the planet.
See? No mention of "pernicious racism". Simply violence. The reason my response to him was what it was is because he "refuted" my point with a nonsense answer. You can't say "All cultures have not been violent because America was violent". I never said America wasn't violent, which is the only thing his answer would have been a refutation of. To refute "All cultures have been violent" you need to provide an example of a culture that WASN'T violent, not an example of one that WAS. I already said they ALL are, so providing an example of a violent culture, ANY violent culture, is already in agreement with what I said. Then you jump in with this derailment into "pernicious racism" which isn't what the discussion was about.
 

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Damn, unable to get the whole, you reply with a piece. Did slavery only exist in one form? The US was practicing an unusual in civilized history form of society that was based on large scale race based generational slavery. Almost unheard of in history Very different from taking a few people captive.
LOL, you need to read real history......not some trumped up bullcrap!
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
I don't think executing anyone unarmed is acceptable, got a source for your statistic?

Perhaps a better question:

What brings police to the neighbourhoods? Is it pure racism, or is it that black people are committing a lot more crimes on average than other groups? And the reason for this basically the same reason native communities in Canada have been decimated. The family unit was obliterated.
This is a totally different subject. If you'd like to discuss that, feel free to start a thread. I do it all of the time. All you're doing now is attempting to avoid the fact that the police are allowed to kill black folk at will, and you and others seem to think that it's OK.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
This is a totally different subject. If you'd like to discuss that, feel free to start a thread. I do it all of the time. All you're doing now is attempting to avoid the fact that the police are allowed to kill black folk at will, and you and others seem to think that it's OK.
I don't think executing unarmed people is ok
Did you miss that part? Do you have a source for your police murdering unarmed black folk every few days statistic?
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Would like to point out the police are white, and black, and hispanic, and asian.....just saying that perhaps they are mostly going where the crime is...just a thought?
So what. It's still run by the white power structure. The police officers are nothing more than minions.
 

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
So what. It's still run by the white power structure. The police officers are nothing more than minions.
Seriously, the police go where the crime is, well except now in Chicago, they avoid the crime area's because they don't want to get accused of killing unarmed black folks, so now the black folks are killing themselves in ever increasing number due to gang violence... 63 over Memorial day weekend in Chicago....Black on Black violence!
Rahm Emanuel is running Chicago if you had not noticed!
 
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OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Ok, since you're a bit lazy:

http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/

Found this. And what are the rates crimes are being committed among the various groups? Blacks commit half the murders in the country, despite being around 13% of the population. Do you think there might be a reason they wind up being killed by police more often and have police show up in their neighbourhoods more?

Again, it starts with the destruction of the family. That's the bottom line. You want to solve this problem? You need two parent households instilling good values. This is not an easy fix, but it is the solution the most of the issues currently facing the black community.

I also found this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/

The conventional thinking about police-involved shootings, and some scientific research, has been that black suspects are more likely to be shot than white suspects because of an implicit racial bias among police officers. But now a new study has found exactly the opposite: even with white officers who do have racial biases, officers are three times less likely to shoot unarmed black suspects than unarmed white suspects.

The results come from a laboratory project at Washington State University using highly realistic police simulators, in which actors in various scenarios approach and respond to officers on large, high-definition video screens in an attempt to recreate critical situations on the street. The officers are equipped with real guns, modified to fire infrared beams rather than bullets, and the scenarios can branch into conflict or cooperation, depending on the officers’ words and actions.

It’s the third time researchers at Washington State — Lois James, Stephen M. James and Bryan J. Vila — have set up simulations to monitor the differing reactions of police when confronted by white or black suspects. And all three times, they found that officers took significantly more time to fire their weapons if the subject was black, according to their latest report, “The Reverse Racism Effect,” to be published in the journal Criminology & Public Policy.

It’s a complex subject, dating back to a 1974 study which concluded that “the police have one trigger finger for whites and another for blacks.” A 1978 report found that 60 percent of black suspects shot by the police carried handguns, compared with 35 percent of white suspects. In 2001, a statistical study showed that black people comprised 12 percent of the population but committed 43 percent of the killings of officers.

But there has also been a contrary narrative, that officers are hesitant to fire at black suspects, starting with a 1977 analysis of reports from major metropolitan departments which found officers fired more shots at white suspects than at black suspects, possibly because of “public sentiment concerning treatment of blacks.” And in 2004, David Klinger at the University of Missouri-St. Louis interviewed more than 100 officers and found “evidence of increased wariness about using deadly force against black suspects for fear of how it would be perceived and the associated consequences.”

Into this conflict of views enters Lois James at Washington State, who has made studying the race factor in police shootings a specialty. For the most part, simply using data from police reports doesn’t include the episodes where an officer doesn’t shoot or doesn’t hit a target. So she has turned to the lab to try to simulate the circumstances officers face on the job, keeping all the factors identical within a scenario — type of weapon, body language and spoken threats, clothes, surroundings — except the race of the suspect.

In two previous tests using police simulators, James monitored the neurophysiological reactions, such as brain waves, of both police officers and civilians to deadly encounters. She said in an interview Tuesday that she found that “the participants were experiencing a greater threat response when faced with African Americans instead of white or Hispanic suspects.” But even with that response, in both studies the police and non-police participants were “significantly slower to shoot armed black suspects than armed white suspects, and significantly less likely to mistakenly shoot unarmed black suspects than unarmed white suspects.”
So, you haven't really produced much evidence to support your hypothesis but I'm still listening. Have anything else I should look at?
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Seriously, the police go where the crime is, well except now in Chicago, they avoid the crime area's because they don't want to get accused of killing unarmed black folks, so now the black folks are killing themselves in ever increasing number due to gang violence... 63 over Memorial day weekend in Chicago....Black on Black violence!
Translation: Black people kill black people, therefore the police should be allowed to kill black people as well.
 

StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Translation: Black people kill black people, therefore the police should be allowed to kill black people as well.
LOL.....no that is not the translation, the translation is cops in Chicago are not going to protect the black community and gang members due to the DOJ, and Obama's attitude towards the police. The translation is that if they can't do their job safely, and if criminals and others are going to cry foul when a criminal is shot, then they are not going to put their career and their life on the line.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
LOL.....no that is not the translation, the translation is cops in Chicago are not going to protect the black community and gang members due to the DOJ, and Obama's attitude towards the police. The translation is that if they can't do their job safely, and if criminals and others are going to cry foul when a criminal is shot, then they are not going to put their career and their life on the line.
Must be nice. What other job in America are you allowed to be completely shitty at, and not only do you not have to answer for being shitty, but you're then allowed to say "Fuck it, if you don't like the shitty job we're doing, we just won't do it at all."
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Well guess what skippy, you're gettin' it anyways. Because you couldn't be bothered to actually pay attention to context, here it is laid out for you all together like.

We start with the back and forth between bigots on both sides:



Then I come in:

Then the nonsense response:

Then the part that you latched onto and quoted:

See? No mention of "pernicious racism". Simply violence. The reason my response to him was what it was is because he "refuted" my point with a nonsense answer. You can't say "All cultures have not been violent because America was violent". I never said America wasn't violent, which is the only thing his answer would have been a refutation of. To refute "All cultures have been violent" you need to provide an example of a culture that WASN'T violent, not an example of one that WAS. I already said they ALL are, so providing an example of a violent culture, ANY violent culture, is already in agreement with what I said. Then you jump in with this derailment into "pernicious racism" which isn't what the discussion was about.
too funny this. @bearkat42 was just having fun with you. I can see his point. The history of European worldwide colonization and domination was achieved by violence using weapons that were better than the people they suppressed. The genocides in the Americas for one were brutal and violent. What the English did to China, India could also be characterized as such. The institution of slavery in the US was about as bad as anything else. Do you really want to get into a body count to see who was worse? That's a dumb game and irrelevant to today's situation. I told you this in my earlier message.
 
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StevieBevie

Well-Known Member
Must be nice. What other job in America are you allowed to be completely shitty at, and not only do you not have to answer for being shitty, but you're then allowed to say "Fuck it, if you don't like the shitty job we're doing, we just won't do it at all."
There are asshole cops that have killed people that should not be killed. The vast majority are good cops doing their job! Now they won't....and all lives matter, all of them!
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
LOL.....no that is not the translation, the translation is cops in Chicago are not going to protect the black community and gang members due to the DOJ, and Obama's attitude towards the police. The translation is that if they can't do their job safely, and if criminals and others are going to cry foul when a criminal is shot, then they are not going to put their career and their life on the line.
you don't know anything about Chicago, dude. You said so earlier. Sheesh the problem with ignorant people is that they don't know anything.
 
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