The Problems With Biden

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Nothing is replaced with "government healthcare". The government becomes the single payer, the for profit middleman gets eliminated, and US taxpayers save 20% of healthcare costs over the course of four years

There has never been a single instance of a country switching from a for profit system to a universal system of healthcare, then switching back because people support it once it's implemented. In places like the UK, it's considered political suicide to try to eliminate the NHS

Here's Boris Johnson, leader of the conservative party promoting it before his campaign;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194223958494711809

I am sure those 2.69 million people will be glad to hear their job is just some middleman's profit.

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Bugeye · Feb 10, 2020

hillbill said:
Electoral Collage was one of the worst ideas in the Constitution and was a concession to small agrarian states. Pretty much a deal with Slavers like the 2nd Amendment.

Agriculture is completely overrated. Like fossil fuels.

Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

hanimmal said:
I am sure those 2.69 million people will be glad to hear their job is just some middleman's profit.
View attachment 4476404

Those people would still have jobs, administration is still required under a universal system of healthcare. The only difference is instead of working for a private for profit health insurance company, they would work for a single payer

This is another right wing talking point designed to stoke fear in the uninformed

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Those people would still have jobs, administration is still required under a universal system of healthcare. The only difference is instead of working for a private for profit health insurance company, they would work for a single payer

This is another right wing talking point designed to stoke fear in the uninformed

Nope, just common sense. People don't trust it when people say they are going to change the world once they learn enough about the world to realize everything is easier said than done.

I am all for universal healthcare, but I do not trust the government to run it, much less Bernie's ability to get it passed, this election is too important to stake it all on that.

hillbill · Feb 10, 2020

Senators who voted to convict do represent tens of millions more Americans than the cowards who voted to acquit.

Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

hanimmal said:
I am all for universal healthcare, but I do not trust the government to run it

Then go stand in line with RobRoy and continue the conversation with him

travisw · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Nothing is replaced with "government healthcare". The government becomes the single payer, the for profit middleman gets eliminated, and US taxpayers save 20% of healthcare costs over the course of four years

There has never been a single instance of a country switching from a for profit system to a universal system of healthcare, then switching back because people support it once it's implemented. In places like the UK, it's considered political suicide to try to eliminate the NHS

Here's Boris Johnson, leader of the conservative party promoting it before his campaign;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194223958494711809

VideoPress

videopress.com

Political suicide? What are you on about? Boris has been advocating NHS privatization for decades and still ended up as prime minister.
.

“And this is not as trivial as it sounds, because we need to think about new ways of getting private money into the NHS. If you look at the countries that do better on cancer survival rates, and on coronary heart disease – countries such as Belgium, Germany or France – they do not rely on a monopoly state provider. They have a variety of systems – employer-based insurance schemes, employee-based insurance schemes, whatever; and they manage to spend more per capita on health, and to achieve better results, because they do not just rely on general taxation and spending – the first being electorally unpopular and the second being inefficient.”
Boris Johnson, ‘Friends, Voters, Countrymen’, 17 June 2002, page 15, link

“Why shouldn’t the Tories continue to match Labour funding on the NHS, but try to find ways of bringing in additional, private money?”
Boris Johnson, The Spectator, 12 May 2001, link

“Perhaps that extra money should come not just from taxation but from the kind of insurance-based schemes they have on the Continent.”
Boris Johnson, The Spectator, 2 June 2001, link

“Of course it would be better if there were more choice in the NHS, and more opportunity to buy optional services – but that is another story.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 20 December 2001, link

“At the risk of tempting him into a departure from Labour’s approved ideology, I invite him to agree that it shows what private enterprise can do in the field of health care.”
Boris Johnson, Parliament, 2 July 2002, link

“One way or another, Gordon will have to give us our money back next week, in tax cuts or spending, and at last Labour seems to understand that the answer is not always and everywhere an expansion of the public sector. Look at the NHS, where ministers finally seem to accept – after abolishing tax breaks for private insurance and persecuting consultants in private practice – that private beds will be necessary to stave off a flu crisis this winter.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 2 November 2000, link

“They don’t seem to have anything very interesting to say about the continuing crisis in the NHS, obsessed as they are with the monopolistic, top-down, state-driven solutions. They’re banishing the good consultants who want to do some private work, and they’ve done their best to make private health insurance unaffordable for the elderly.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 7 December 2000, link

“One of the reasons why the NHS is no longer the envy of the world is that it is still top-down, statist and treats patients like serfs and dolts. To be fair to Blair and Labour, they recognise this, at least in their rhetoric. They talk endlessly about mixing in the private sector.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 14 June 2001, link

“The result, after five years, is that we have what is in many ways a deteriorating health service, and an unhappy “Third Way” compromise between Prime Minister and Chancellor. Private firms are increasingly involved in NHS infrastructure projects, but the taxpayer picks up the tab.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 5 December 2002, link

“Blair comes on all pseudo-Tory and says it is time to end the “monolith” of NHS provision. Gordon defends the monolith with the fundamentalist fervour of a mullah protecting that big black cube at Mecca.”
Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 7 November 2002, link

Boris Johnson said patients should have to pay to use the NHS so they will 'value' it more

Boris Johnson said patients should have to pay to use the NHS so they will 'value' it more

Johnson wrote a column for the Spectator magazine in 1995 calling for free healthcare to be restricted to the "genuinely sick and for the elderly."

www.businessinsider.com

UncleBuck · Feb 10, 2020

Bugeye said:
Agriculture is completely overrated. Like fossil fuels.

Since I’m smarter than you I’ll spell it out for you

He doesn’t have any problems with agriculture, he has a problem with a leftover relic that gave special rights to slave whippers which now subverts the will of the people to install kkk-endorsed Putin puppets

Hope that helps!

Racist moron

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Then go stand in line with RobRoy and continue the conversation with him

It is no problem, I will just wait until the Democratic primaries come to my state and vote for the best candidate to unify our country after 4 years of racism and hate coming out of the White House.

And then I will vote Democrat in the General.

Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

Go ahead and name a single country that has implemented universal healthcare then switched back to private

Can you name one?

hillbill · Feb 10, 2020

Putin has now weakened the UK and USA as well as NATO. trump and the Republicans have been a great help to him.

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Go ahead and name a single country that has implemented universal healthcare then switched back to private

Can you name one?

Soviet Union.

Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

Wrong, try again

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Wrong, try again

They didn't have universal state run hospitals?

Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

hanimmal said:
They didn't have universal state run hospitals?

Russia currently has universal healthcare. The Soviet Union dissolved

Fogdog · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
New "Medicare for All" Bill Would Kick 181 Million Off Private Insurance

Right from the Heritage Foundation talking points

The truth matters. I'm glad to see that even the Heritage Foundation is able to see it.

It's a stupid political position. A gift to Republikkkans who are stuck with defending a traitor and proven corrupt leader. One whose defense is claiming the rights of a king. Carville is right. Democrats are blowing their advantage by tearing up the 2018 playbook that was a resounding success.

Not just Medicare for All. Free college tuition, inmates rights, and so forth. It's not a matter of whether or not these are good ideas, it's a matter of how Democrats convince the public to vote for them. Democrats can win on their values of strong unions, access to affordable healthcare, support for education, support for womens rights, support for minority rights without going overboard by competing to see who can take the most extreme left positions. First win back the WH and the Senate. Keep the House. Then start working on fixing long term issues.

Fogdog · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Nothing is replaced with "government healthcare". The government becomes the single payer, the for profit middleman gets eliminated, and US taxpayers save 20% of healthcare costs over the course of four years

There has never been a single instance of a country switching from a for profit system to a universal system of healthcare, then switching back because people support it once it's implemented. In places like the UK, it's considered political suicide to try to eliminate the NHS

Here's Boris Johnson, leader of the conservative party promoting it before his campaign;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194223958494711809

Actually, the government runs the hospitals in that country. Their problem is conservatives have been cutting the budget in order to cut taxes on the wealthy. Different position than in the US.

Just like your bugaboo, campaign finance reform, in order to make any changes, Democrats have to be in power. Carville wasn't taking issue with their policies. He was pointing out that Democrats are losing focus on making a case for winning the election.

hanimmal · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Russia currently has universal healthcare. The Soviet Union dissolved

Sounds awesome. What about the areas not in Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia

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Padawanbater2 · Feb 10, 2020

Fogdog said:
The truth matters. I'm glad to see that even the Heritage Foundation is able to see it.

I see, when you cite a right wing talking point promoted by the Heritage Foundation, they're the ones who've seen the error of their ways, but when someone who disagrees with you cites a statistic from a study once promoted by the brother in law of someone who once knew someone who voted for a Republican, they're a Trump supporter, fascist, right wing, Russian plant, troll...

Regurgitated right wing talking points, using words like "government controlled" & "government run healthcare" are Trumpian tactics designed specifically by think tanks and political strategists to scare uninformed people away from policies that would benefit them and the poor and the middle class at the expense of the rich and well off and corporations that pay little in taxes. "Moderates" like James Carville, Bill Maher, Donnie Deutch, etc. don't want revolutionary changes to the system that has benefitted them, I am shocked, look, this is my shocked face;

can't you just see how shocked I am?

Fogdog · Feb 10, 2020

Padawanbater2 said:
Go ahead and name a single country that has implemented universal healthcare then switched back to private

Can you name one?

Padawanbater2 said:
Russia currently has universal healthcare. The Soviet Union dissolved

Actually, Russia has moved away from universal healthcare to private. It's a hybrid system where people who can afford private insurance do so.

The private health insurance market, known in Russian as voluntary health insurance (Russian: добровольное медицинское страхование, ДМС) to distinguish it from state-sponsored Mandatory Medical Insurance, has experienced sustained levels of growth, owing to dissatisfaction with the level of services provided by state hospitals.[35] It was introduced in October 1992.[36] Perceived advantages of private healthcare include access to modern medical equipment and shorter waiting lists for specialist treatment.[35] Private health insurance is most common in the larger cities such as Moscow and St Petersburg, as income levels in most of Russia are still too low to generate a significant level of demand.[35]

Your question deflects away from the main issue in the US, which is how do we migrate to a single payer system? Before anything can be done, we must first sweep Republikkkans from control of the Senate, control of the WH and maintain control of the House. The point I keep hammering home is Democrats should stick to a strategy that addresses what people want. Forcing everybody from private insurance on a vague promise is a loser. Same with free tuition and other dumb arguing points among Democrats at this time.

The Problems With Biden

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