Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

[ttystikk]

wage raises are good to a point all I know is a teacher shouldn't make as much as a doctor.. and that's about what you have going on in my city

Why is such a determination up to you? Since when is educating future citizens a lower priority than their health care?

 

[Fogdog]

It's a statement about the rate ---

And the fact that it's not all tied to market value. Did you read the original post?

I must be talking to a two year old ... or somebody that doesn't own property.

Ok, I stand corrected. You not only are paying more because of valuations, your electorate voted in some extra taxes.

Your side lost some elections to fund something the majority felt was needed. What was it -- roads or schools or police and fire protection or other useless things like that? Nobody else will listen to you so you take your carping here. We are a kind and understanding bunch. It can suck being a member of a democracy that you don't control.

 

[Glaucoma]

Your question isnt as cut & dried as yes or no.

I dont think that small private owned businesses who are making low yeild returns from their business should be mandated to pay a wage that will shut their doors .

I also dont think huge corporations like Shitmart should be allowed to pay as low a wage as businesses like Londonfogs stores , the huge corporate companies allready recieve tax breaks & government incentives that most small business owners do not recieve .

I do not think wildly profitable business should be able to take advantage of the minimum wage laws , if they are allowed to pay the same wages as small private business then all the incentives they recieve in tax breaks & low to non existant property tax rates should be taxen away from them .

Hey now..

What about a variable minimum wage based on net profits?

That could be interesting.

Edit: nevermind. That sorta changes the minute you bump up their pay.

Damn.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Like I'd read that wall of bullshit.

Good luck.

Atta boy, I knew you wouldn't let me down

Here, this might be more palatable for you;

● Make work pay by increasing the minimum wage, empowering unions to bargain collectively, ending abusive scheduling practices for hourly workers, getting people the overtime pay they deserve, ensuring equal pay for equal work and making sure employers follow the law and respect the rights of workers.

● End the squeeze on working parents by passing a paid family leave requirement and investing in child care, after-school programs and extended learning days. Let families with children have a chance to balance careers with quality time together.

● Ensure everyone can get a great education without drowning in debt. Rein in the cost of college and allow families to refinance student loans at lower rates. Give every child access to full-day pre-kindergarten. Education is still the best ticket to the middle class.

● Focus on research and innovation needed to develop the technologies of the future. Investments in medical and scientific research let us build whole new industries and give us the chance to create good jobs right here in America.

● Invest in infrastructure — in roads, bridges, rail, water, power and broadband. Businesses can’t grow if the foundation crumbles beneath them. A 21st-century economy needs 21st-century infrastructure.

● Strengthen and expand Social Security, not just for today’s seniors but also for today’s young people. Work is changing. A strong Social Security system will ensure that all workers, no matter the number of jobs they piece together during their careers, can count on a secure retirement.

● Strengthen the rules of the marketplace. We don’t build a future by turning the biggest banks loose to do whatever they want, and markets don’t create value when corporations can cheat people or roll over their upstart competition.

● Promote fair trade by embracing only those trade policies that strengthen our economy, create good jobs with good wages and establish fair rules of the road for companies around the world. Our trade agreements shouldn’t help multinational companies gut environmental, health and safety standards here and abroad under the guise of promoting commerce.

● Reform the tax code by ending the billions in tax breaks for corporations shipping jobs overseas and big oil companies, while leveling the playing field so that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.

Pick one of those points and tell me what's wrong with it

I mean, if you want to be part of the adult conversation that is. If instead you just want to call poor people with two or three jobs lazy, or if you want to call college graduates with degrees uneducated, by all means, feel free to keep that right wing bullshit to yourself for the remainder of this discussion.

Thanks

Same goes for @Uncle Ben & @MuyLocoNC

 

[Fogdog]

Atta boy, I knew you wouldn't let me down


● Strengthen and expand Social Security, not just for today’s seniors but also for today’s young people. Work is changing. A strong Social Security system will ensure that all workers, no matter the number of jobs they piece together during their careers, can count on a secure retirement.



Pick one of those points and tell me what's wrong with it

]

OOOH, OOOH, let me try! I'll do the social security one.

When we keep wages down and block medical benefits, people won't live long enough to collect SSI. There will be no need for it. So abolish it.

 

[Fogdog]

Hey now..

What about a variable minimum wage based on net profits?

That could be interesting.

Edit: nevermind. That sorta changes the minute you bump up their pay.

Damn.

Not really, I've seen profit sharing work pretty well. You assume that a worker produces the same regardless of pay or incentives. This is not true. Actually, I'd be interested in seeing if what you propose could help. It would be a win win for worker and employer -- so long as the employer could not go below a base pay.

 

[Glaucoma]

It would be a win win for worker and employer -- so long as the employer could not go below a base pay.

That was the rough idea right there.

 

[londonfog]

You avoided my question as to how much the store makes from the attendants working for you , how do you expect me to give you an honest answer without knowing the business net profit .

Again how much is the net profit ?

The question is how much do you think a person should get paid as a laundromat attended. I understand why you find it difficult to answer. You crazy as fuck if you think someone should make 20 dollars an hour at an unskilled job. Get back to reality

 

[Padawanbater2]

The question is how much do you think a person should get paid as a laundromat attended. I understand why you find it difficult to answer. You crazy as fuck if you think someone should make 20 dollars an hour at an unskilled job. Get back to reality

If the top 10% of earners didn't steal 93% of the economic growth from the bottom 90% over the course of 35 years, I doubt you would share this opinion because everyone would be making that much, regardless of the level of skill required to perform the job

Would someone like to address that?

 

[UncleBuck]

Sarah Buck Motsinger is not your sister? I'm confused. She has pics of you on her Facebook. And vice versa.

lol.

 

[panhead]

The question is how much do you think a person should get paid as a laundromat attended. I understand why you find it difficult to answer. You crazy as fuck if you think someone should make 20 dollars an hour at an unskilled job. Get back to reality

Why do you refuse to answer the question most relevant to me giving you an exact dollar value , here i'll pull a classic politics section move & answer your question with a question.

If you were making $200k off that meaningless laundromat attendant would $20 an hour be too much pay ?

 

[londonfog]

Why do you refuse to answer the question most relevant to me giving you an exact dollar value , here i'll pull a classic politics section move & answer your question with a question.

If you were making $200k off that meaningless laundromat attendant would $20 an hour be too much pay ?

So you feel employees should be paid based on how much the business makes.? In that case we should pay all McDonald workers 25-30 an hour. Yup you must think someone who works the fries should make about 25 an hour based on the company making money. GTFO. I pay you what I think the job is worth. If you agree you are employed. If not, good luck and I hope you get hired soon.

 

[Padawanbater2]

So you feel employees should be paid based on how much the business makes.? In that case we should pay all McDonald workers 25-30 an hour. Yup you must think someone who works the fries should make about 25 an hour based on the company making money. GTFO. I pay you what I think the job is worth. If you agree you are employed. If not, good luck and I hope you get hired soon.

Do you think it's OK for Walmart (the largest employer in America) to pay its employees so little they require government assistance to pay their bills?

If so, why should the burden of that companies employee be put on the American taxpayers shoulders?

If not, what do you think Walmart should pay their employees to ensure they don't require gov. assistance?

 

[londonfog]

Do you think it's OK for Walmart (the largest employer in America) to pay its employees so little they require government assistance to pay their bills?

If so, why should the burden of that companies employee be put on the American taxpayers shoulders?

If not, what do you think Walmart should pay their employees to ensure they don't require gov. assistance?

I think Walmart should have a starting pay of 10-12 an hour. Depending on what you do that rate should go higher. I store greeter should not make 22 an hour though

 

[sheskunk]

You are not even reading. Nobody in this thread says that minimum wage is a living wage. Its OK, I'm getting used to the fact that your people aren't interested in ideas. At least you aren't shitting expletives out your mouth like some of your people do. And believe me, I do appreciate your discourse.

What you are defending is the status quo a conservative argument all the way. In life, animals that stop evolving become extinct. Same for ideas and social systems. What used to work will fail once a better way comes along. I have worked in and seen the benefits of a system that did not threaten people with poverty in order to get them to show up. Pay a good wage, link workers to profitability, ensure that they feel safe to take justified risks and get out of their way when they are working. It works better than the punishment and threats that you seem to like.

Thread title + Post #1 -

"Living Wage - a wage on which it is possible for a wage earner or an individual and his or her family to live at least according to minimum customary standards"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/living wage?s=t

Why/why not?

 

[sheskunk]

You are not even reading. Nobody in this thread says that minimum wage is a living wage. Its OK, I'm getting used to the fact that your people aren't interested in ideas. At least you aren't shitting expletives out your mouth like some of your people do. And believe me, I do appreciate your discourse.

What you are defending is the status quo a conservative argument all the way. In life, animals that stop evolving become extinct. Same for ideas and social systems. What used to work will fail once a better way comes along. I have worked in and seen the benefits of a system that did not threaten people with poverty in order to get them to show up. Pay a good wage, link workers to profitability, ensure that they feel safe to take justified risks and get out of their way when they are working. It works better than the punishment and threats that you seem to like.

I'm not threatening or punishing anyone. I am REWARDING those who take the initiative to BETTER themselves.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I think Walmart should have a starting pay of 10-12 an hour. Depending on what you do that rate should go higher. I store greeter should not make 22 an hour though

Is 10-12/hour what you believe working at Walmart is worth? What do you base that on? In other words, what makes working one hour at Walmart worth 10-12/hour? The difficulty of the job + risks involved? So then why are teachers in the US paid so low? Do you think teaching isn't a tough job? Or is it just low risk, comparatively? Are high difficulty, high risk jobs the ones that you feel should pay out the most? Then why are professional athletes, CEO's, or entertainers the highest paid members of society?

You seem to be arguing an arbitrary point that doesn't follow the same rules as you climb the financial ladder, so why don't people ever complain the same way about extremely high paying jobs with low difficulty and low risk the way they do with lower paying jobs with low difficulty and low risk?

You ever asked yourself that question?

Wages/salaries aren't only defined by difficulty+risk, if they were reality stars wouldn't make more than fast food workers, so it's incorrect to argue from that perspective alone.

 

[sheskunk]

Your statement you just made assume that I am a slacker which is not the case. The fact is I started working when I was 14 and dropped out of high school so I could pay rent because my father started smoking crack and was not paying our bills anymore. I didn't make bad choices I made necessary changes and now I'm in the situation I'm in. I'm not by any means a slacker I go to work everyday. I run a warehouse.. I get there at 530 in the morning and work usually until 6 o'clock at night. I am an order puller so I spend my whole day pulling big rolls of material to take your machine for them to run. So stop calling me a slacker if you piece of fucking shit.

Case closed.

 

[panhead]

So you feel employees should be paid based on how much the business makes.?

Haha whenever one of the low wage advocates gets dumbfounded they use Mcdonalds as the answer , i'll take Mcdonalds for $300 Alex

Your tounge just cant manage an answer to my question but fuk it , i'll answer your last question/statement .

Yes i think all employees pay should be based on the profits they make for the company they work for , the total hourly labor we pay to operate both storage bldgs is $50 an hour between 3 employees , we also give all employees an untaxed xmas bonus of $1 for every hour they worked that year, we also send them & their kids a $100 bill on their birthdays & give them a $100 pre paid visa on Thanksgiving , i know crazy right ? Why pay em so much when i could get people to do what they do for half the cost ?

Because i value the work they do for me , i value their work ethic , i value their longevity in a job normally associated with high turn over rates ( Manager 12 yrs ) i value zero employee theft , i value their customer service because thats what makes me money .

Most of all i value them as people & i enjoy helping their familys have a real life , you wouldnt understand how happy it makes me knowing the people who work for us never have to worry about making xmas for their kids because they know the exact dollar of their xmas bonus & can count on it being there .

I would not like to do business in your coin op laundromat, i can see it in my minds eye , some old crusty Sea Hag with a bad attitude making change & selling soap all pissed off & funky .

How much money , houses & cars does one person need before they care about others ?

Answer one damm question , i dont care which one

 

[londonfog]

Haha whenever one of the low wage advocates gets dumbfounded they use Mcdonalds as the answer , i'll take Mcdonalds for $300 Alex

Your tounge just cant manage an answer to my question but fuk it , i'll answer your last question/statement .

Yes i think all employees pay should be based on the profits they make for the company they work for , the total hourly labor we pay to operate both storage bldgs is $50 an hour between 3 employees , we also give all employees an untaxed xmas bonus of $1 for every hour they worked that year, we also send them & their kids a $100 bill on their birthdays & give them a $100 pre paid visa on Thanksgiving , i know crazy right ? Why pay em so much when i could get people to do what they do for half the cost ?

Because i value the work they do for me , i value their work ethic , i value their longevity in a job normally associated with high turn over rates ( Manager 12 yrs ) i value zero employee theft , i value their customer service because thats what makes me money .

Most of all i value them as people & i enjoy helping their familys have a real life , you wouldnt understand how happy it makes me knowing the people who work for us never have to worry about making xmas for their kids because they know the exact dollar of their xmas bonus & can count on it being there .

I would not like to do business in your coin op laundromat, i can see it in my minds eye , some old crusty Sea Hag with a bad attitude making change & selling soap all pissed off & funky .

How much money , houses & cars does one person need before they care about others ?

Answer one damm question , i dont care which one

you pay your workers 16 an hour to do exactly what ?