Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

[ttystikk]

I

I got priced out of Denver recently.. I'd have to move yay to afford rent there in my own house and I'm trying to get away from that noise. I refuse to live with a roommate or in the city of pueblo or some Shit like that.

I left Denver of my own accord long ago- it doesn't embody the kind of Colorado living I want to be any closer than an hour's drive away. So I'm back in Ft Collins, where I grew up... and it is definitely not the same small town it was then. It's MUCH NICER here, just don't tell anybody- they'll all want to come and visit, and then fucking stay. Just like the other hundred thousand have in the last thirty years!

 

[Fogdog]

As you wallow through a thread full of people crying for more money.

The discussion is about burger flippers wanting more money than they are worth.

Minimum wage is not = to living wage.
Otherwise they would be called the same thing.

Want more money? Educate yourself. Pretty simple solution. There are plenty of people out there living successful lives.

You are not even reading. Nobody in this thread says that minimum wage is a living wage. Its OK, I'm getting used to the fact that your people aren't interested in ideas. At least you aren't shitting expletives out your mouth like some of your people do. And believe me, I do appreciate your discourse.

What you are defending is the status quo a conservative argument all the way. In life, animals that stop evolving become extinct. Same for ideas and social systems. What used to work will fail once a better way comes along. I have worked in and seen the benefits of a system that did not threaten people with poverty in order to get them to show up. Pay a good wage, link workers to profitability, ensure that they feel safe to take justified risks and get out of their way when they are working. It works better than the punishment and threats that you seem to like.

 

[Grandpapy]

I

I got priced out of Denver recently.. I'd have to move yay to afford rent there in my own house and I'm trying to get away from that noise. I refuse to live with a roommate or in the city of pueblo or some Shit like that.

It's happening everywhere.

When you have cash........

• Cindat Capital Management Co., a subsidiary of China Cinda Asset Management, is partnering with Zeller Realty Group in the $304 million purchase of 311 South Wacker Drive, a 65-story, 1.3 million-square-foot Class A office tower at the gateway to Chicago’s West Loop. Cindat owns 70 percent of the venture.
• Shanghai-based Fosun International acquired One Chase Manhattan Plaza in New York from JPMorgan Chase for $725 million late last year. This was the largest purchase of a New York building by a Chinese investor to date.
• In Brooklyn, Greenland Holdings Group of China is purchasing a stake in the Atlantic Yards project, the largest commercial real estate development in the U.S. to get direct backing from a Chinese company. Shanghai-based Greenland Group is said to be making a contribution of roughly $200 million in exchange for a 70 percent equity interest in the Forest City Enterprises development, not including the Barclays Center and a residential building already underway. Completion of the deal is expected this year; it is subject to regulatory approvals from the Chinese government and the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S. (According to JLL, Greenland Group’s goal this year is to generate up to 25 percent of its revenues from overseas.)
• Oxford Properties Group, the real estate arm of the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS), is partnering with the Related Companies to develop the 17-million-square-foot, 28-acre Hudson Yards mixed-use development on Manhattan’s Far West Side. Time Warner already has committed to moving its headquarters to a new office tower there. (For more on Hudson Yards, see “Building a NYC Neighborhood Atop a Rail Yard.”)
• Oxford also is purchasing 450 Park Avenue, a 33-story, 330,000-square-foot office building in Manhattan’s Plaza District, for $575 million. Oxford’s aim is to develop and actively manage a $10 billion portfolio in the U.S. by 2018.
• Also in Manhattan, at Time Warner Center on Columbus Circle, Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, one of the world’s biggest sovereign wealth funds, is investing alongside the Singapore Sovereign Wealth Fund and Related Companies, the lead developer of Time Warner Center, to buy Time Warner’s 1.1 million square feet of space for $1.3 billion. Time Warner will lease the space back until 2019. Abu Dhabi and Singapore are said to be funding 80 percent of the purchase price.
• Gaw Capital Partners USA, an entity of the Hong Kong-based private equity firm Gaw Capital Partners, is raising $500 million to invest in office and hotel properties on the East Coast as well as in what it calls “knowledge- and innovation-based” markets such as Portland, Oregon, and Austin, Texas.
• Callahan Capital Partners and Ivanhoe Cambridge, the real estate investment arm of the large Canadian pension fund manager Caisse de Depot et Placement du Quebec, acquired the 47-story, 963,600-square-foot Wells Fargo Center in downtown Seattle.
• Sight unseen, Dongdu International Group of Shangai acquired the 1920s-era 38-story David Stott building and the Detroit Free Press building in downtown Detroit, for $8.95 million and $4.025 million respectively, at auction last September. It plans a $50 million redevelopment of the Detroit Free Press building into apartments and retail space.

They bring their money and business model safety net.

 

[ttystikk]

You are not even reading. Nobody in this thread says that minimum wage is a living wage. Its OK, I'm getting used to the fact that your people aren't interested in ideas. At least you aren't shitting expletives out your mouth like some of your people do. And believe me, I do appreciate your discourse.

What you are defending is the status quo a conservative argument all the way. In life, animals that stop evolving become extinct. Same for ideas and social systems. What used to work will fail once a better way comes along. I have worked in and seen the benefits of a system that did not threaten people with poverty in order to get them to show up. Pay a good wage, link workers to profitability, ensure that they feel safe to take justified risks and get out of their way when they are working. It works better than the punishment and threats that you seem to like.

These methods are also far more conducive to innovation which in an information economy, is a consistently lucrative strategy.

 

[Fogdog]

Okay let's look at the company I work for. They make those Breathe Right strips that you put on your nose to help you snoring. And bandages like Johnson and Johnson band aids and catheter secures that they use in all hospitals around the world. My company makes 90 percent of the world health care products when it comes to bandages and Things like that. I work in one of the 22 different facilities located around the world. This facility itself grosses 11 million dollars a month. That is a hundred and thirty two million dollars a year. This facility has about 200 or less employees. F all 200 of us got paid 50,000 a year instead of 20000 a year That would be 10 million dollars. So not even an entire month of revenue for this facility. And that 11 million dollars a month is just for this one facility out of the 22 that we have. I'm not looking to get rich I'm just looking to live Without constantly stressing about paying my bills. Without having to borrow money to have gas to get to work that week to work a job that's not fucking pay me enough. These companies can afford to pay their employees more and still make tenfold of what their employees make

Great summary of the situation. You get it . Others are so stuck in the status quo that they can't see alternatives.

 

[superloud]

So essentially you made bad choices and now expect others to pick up the slack because you're not bothered to do anything about it yourself?

Learn something online, massive shortages of computer programmers and it can be learnt for free in about a million places online.

A C# coder here starts on about €50,000 ($55,000) and I can find hundreds of jobs listed in Dublin (population about 1.5mill) alone.

Your statement you just made assume that I am a slacker which is not the case. The fact is I started working when I was 14 and dropped out of high school so I could pay rent because my father started smoking crack and was not paying our bills anymore. I didn't make bad choices I made necessary changes and now I'm in the situation I'm in. I'm not by any means a slacker I go to work everyday. I run a warehouse.. I get there at 530 in the morning and work usually until 6 o'clock at night. I am an order puller so I spend my whole day pulling big rolls of material to take your machine for them to run. So stop calling me a slacker if you piece of fucking shit.

 

[see4]

Excuse me? He's one of the most qualified individuals on the face of the Earth, and his time is worth a great deal of money. Who the Fuck are YOU to set the acceptable salary range for educational professionals, anyway, Mr 'free market'?! Show us where it says CABINET SECRETARY on your resume??

I'd say he's worth every dime of twice what's he's being paid, and he's taking the pay cut because he loves to teach.

I'd pay serious tuition to take a class from him or nearly anyone of his caliber; I'm definitely going to learn something about how the world really works... and THAT is worth whatever one has to pay.

Look who you were responding to and look at the source he linked? Isn't it obvious he was just lib-bashing? With no substantive argument or any reason. The article itself is just one sided lib-bashing bullshit, no doubt not pointing out the hypocrisy that there are just as many Republican't professors doing the same. Oh wait, that's not possible, "Republican professor" is an oxymoron, that would mean the Republican is both intelligent and grasps the ability to teach others.

 

[ttystikk]

Look who you were responding to and look at the source he linked? Isn't it obvious he was just lib-bashing? With no substantive argument or any reason. The article itself is just one sided lib-bashing bullshit, no doubt not pointing out the hypocrisy that there are just as many Republican't professors doing the same. Oh wait, that's not possible, "Republican professor" is an oxymoron, that would mean the Republican is both intelligent and grasps the ability to teach others.

So I rose to the bait and completely destroyed the 'logic' of that worthless excuse for a talking point.

Maybe it will give him pause to think about some of the rest of the drivel he's being fed by the shovelful.

Reich should be Bernie Sanders' vice president. They'd both get cherry spots in a new democratic administration, because whoever gets into the White House will know those two helped pave the way.

I shudder to think of what might happen if this country elects Scott Walker or the like.

 

[god1]

Here's something to consider:

Say your fortunate enough to pay off the mortgage on your property before you retire. You worked all your life and you got your house paid for and you retire --- but wait, now the property taxes are so damn high your forced to decide if you should sell.

My property taxes are almost 12K; at the rate they've been increasing they will be 15K in a few years ... they started out at about 4.5K/year twenty or so years ago.

The millage just keeps climbing and climbing ... it's not all due to soaring market values, but rather the levies that get voted in by non-property owners in the area.

It sucks.

 

[Harrekin]

Your statement you just made assume that I am a slacker which is not the case. The fact is I started working when I was 14 and dropped out of high school so I could pay rent because my father started smoking crack and was not paying our bills anymore. I didn't make bad choices I made necessary changes and now I'm in the situation I'm in. I'm not by any means a slacker I go to work everyday. I run a warehouse.. I get there at 530 in the morning and work usually until 6 o'clock at night. I am an order puller so I spend my whole day pulling big rolls of material to take your machine for them to run. So stop calling me a slacker if you piece of fucking shit.

Ok, so because your Daddy was a crack head everyone else should pay for you.

My apologies.

/sarc

 

[schuylaar]

I left Denver of my own accord long ago- it doesn't embody the kind of Colorado living I want to be any closer than an hour's drive away. So I'm back in Ft Collins, where I grew up... and it is definitely not the same small town it was then. It's MUCH NICER here, just don't tell anybody- they'll all want to come and visit, and then fucking stay. Just like the other hundred thousand have in the last thirty years!

it's really a shame that means of production has reared its ugly head in the form our our own kind in denver causing all but monopoly..now that i think of it..even that too..where does a peasant go to get a break?

brownbackland, how fucking sad.

 

[ttystikk]

it's really a shame that means of production has reared its ugly head in the form our our own kind in denver causing all but monopoly..now that i think of it..even that too..where does a peasant go to get a break?

brownbackland, how fucking sad.

Nah, I just didn't like the urban grime or the lifestyle. I like my wilderness within arm's each, not the baseball stadium/shopping mall/water park...

 

[see4]

So I rose to the bait and completely destroyed the 'logic' of that worthless excuse for a talking point.

Maybe it will give him pause to think about some of the rest of the drivel he's being fed by the shovelful.

Reich should be Bernie Sanders' vice president. They'd both get cherry spots in a new democratic administration, because whoever gets into the White House will know those two helped pave the way.

I shudder to think of what might happen if this country elects Scott Walker or the like.

lol Scott Walker.
lol Rawn Pawl.
lol Ted Cruz. He's not even American.
lol Ben Carson.
lol Marco Rubio.

Just El-Oh-Fuckin-El.

 

[superloud]

No my employers should pay me. That's what this whole thread about idiot. I'm sure you never been in the dump though that's why you're having this conversation to begin with

Ok, so because your Daddy was a crack head everyone else should pay for you.

My apologies.

/sarc

 

[Fogdog]

These methods are also far more conducive to innovation which in an information economy, is a consistently lucrative strategy.

They work in other situations too. Its working in industrial situations in Germany. Norway and Sweden are doing well too. It's starting to crack in Japan but I think that their proximity to China and their manic focus on an export economy has something to do with that. I don't know what to say about France. Maybe somebody knowledgeable (aka not Harrekin) can comment on this. I don't think these methods will work in service sector jobs but maybe they can.

 

[Fogdog]

it's really a shame that means of production has reared its ugly head in the form our our own kind in denver causing all but monopoly..now that i think of it..even that too..where does a peasant go to get a break?

brownbackland, how fucking sad.

that pasty faced guy hurts my eyes. Who is he?

 

[BDOGKush]

You're worth whatever you agree to work for when you accept a job offer.

If an employer offers you minumum wage and you accept to work at that pay rate, how is it their problem when you're not living as comfortable as you'd like?

 

[Fogdog]

Ok, so because your Daddy was a crack head everyone else should pay for you.

My apologies.

/sarc

Wow Harrekin, you really grovel in the slime don't you? People of your persuasion will do and say any nasty little thing to maintain their social position.

 

[Fogdog]

You're worth whatever you agree to work for when you accept a job offer.

If an employer offers you minumum wage and you accept to work at that pay rate, how is it their problem when you're not living as comfortable as you'd like?

I know its a bit of a slog but did you read anything that was written by Reich and posted by Paddy? The issue isn't that poor people are too willing to take low wage jobs. Its something else altogether.

 

[potroastV2]

Here's something to consider:

Say your fortunate enough to pay off the mortgage on your property before you retire. You worked all your life and you got your house paid for and you retire --- but wait, now the property taxes are so damn high your forced to decide if you should sell.

My property taxes are almost 12K; at the rate they've been increasing they will be 15K in a few years ... they started out at about 4.5K/year twenty or so years ago.

The millage just keeps climbing and climbing ... it's not all due to soaring market values, but rather the levies that get voted in by non-property owners in the area.

It sucks.

You didn't mention that your state does not have Sales Tax, and that is an important point to your whining.