Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

[Red1966]

...and nobody would be selling weed to make a living..

That's not the point, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about jobs people work to provide a life for themselves and their family

So I'll ask you a few fundamental questions that I think are key to understanding this question from each perspective;

-Do you think that anyone who works full time (40 hours/week) should be able to afford what @panhead so clearly & calmly listed in post #81?

-Do you think it's OK that some people have to work more than one full time job to provide for themselves and/or their families? If so, how do you expect them to increase their status of economic position?

-What do you think about Floyd Mayweather and his recent paycheck of $180 million for his win over Pacman? (He's illiterate, the dude can't read, and he just made $180 million dollars in one night, I'm just wondering how you felt about that?)


I suppose you support offshoring American businesses in search of lower labor costs then, right? Sending American jobs overseas, I mean, if the market sets the rate, right? You wouldn't see any benefit of employing American workers and providing them with a living wage, after all.. the bottom line is the most important thing..

See, man.. that's the problem with this Ayn Rand sort of structure of business, it demands profits over, and in spite of everything else and it damages productivity, employee satisfaction, morale, efficiency, costs.. That's why a co-op kind of business structure would be better, it eliminates each of these negative aspects of a self defeating business model as, again, people who don't have money can't spend money to stimulate the economy, therefore, a poor/middle class that has no money, is highly taxed, has a high unemployment rate and little opportunity to advance themselves will be a burden on the economy. GOP economic policies guarantee slower, if ever, recovery. Check history for your answers.

We don't have to check history. We are in the midst of the single slowest recovery ever.

 

[Red1966]

I don't see why people say we feel Entitled. Or we are asking for them to give us money. The point is the hard working Americans not the lazy people sitting there just begging for money but hard working Americans that built this country do not get paid enough. You should get paid the proper amount of money for the job you do. And no matter what job that is the amount of money you make should be enough to live on. Like im living but if thing keep going the way they are i willbe in debt when i die. and i work hard

He who dies leaving the largest debt wins the game of life.

 

[superloud]

100% Agree.



This is hard to respond to as it is broadly categorizing everyone not living comfortably. This subject is rather complicated as there are many permutations that account for an almost unlimited number of situations.

If you grew up with a parent or parents who were blue collar working class and you lived ok, but never was able to afford college, then I agree you should be able to work and live a comfortable life. But that's subjective.

If you grew up with well-to-do parents and could have gone to college but chose not to, and you spent a few years "exploring yourself", and now you whine about living a comfortable life, I don't feel bad for you at all.

Yeah you're always going to have your loser they just don't want to do anything. and i know Comfortable living is a broad statement. I don't expect to be living extravagant buying boton multiple Exotic cars. By every working person should be able to buy a car that actually works. I can by no means afford car payment so I am forced to buy cars off of Craigslist instead. And I've bought several that I just broke down within a week after spending the thousand dollars that I saved up on it. And table is only like 70 dollars a month so I should definitely be able to afford that if I work 60 hours a week. And I should be able to take my wife out to a dinner that cost $4o On my one day off without worrying about being able to pay my bills. Such small insignificant amount of money. shouldent break a working man

 

[see4]

Yeah you're always going to have your loser they just don't want to do anything. and i know Comfortable living is a broad statement. I don't expect to be living extravagant buying boton multiple Exotic cars. By every working person should be able to buy a car that actually works. I can by no means afford car payment so I am forced to buy cars off of Craigslist instead. And I've bought several that I just broke down within a week after spending the thousand dollars that I saved up on it. And table is only like 70 dollars a month so I should definitely be able to afford that if I work 60 hours a week. And I should be able to take my wife out to a dinner that cost $4o On my one day off without worrying about being able to pay my bills. Such small insignificant amount of money. shouldent break a working man

Hyundai offers cars for $99/mnth lease. With insurance and gas, your auto budget should be roughly $300 a month. If you make $1800 a month, that's roughly 17% of you monthly income. That leaves 83% of your income left for rent, food, bills and savings.

Can I assume your wife works as well?

 

[theexpress]

Boston, NYC, Chicago, Miami, LA -- $1,400/month barely gets you a closet. Literally.



Compensation commensurate of education and experience.

Yea you don't gotta tell me that. Lol fucking retarded expensive just to live.

 

[panhead]

Too many kids these days don't understand the concept of deferred gratification and will never get to where you and I did. They'll piss off their time and money on stupid shit. My older sister and her husband are like that. They can take 2 nickels, rub them together and the nickels disappear in thin air.

One of my godsons is like that where he wants the best of the best NOW !

I just had one hell of a day with him & found out he's out of control with spending & living way above his means .

He's 26 yrs old & lives off student loans & welfare/foodstamps , i just found out he sells half his foodstamps for half price for more play money , i cussed his ass the fuck out early this morning , i gave each of our sons a Harley this spring cause my wife cant ride either of her hd's anymore & i barely even ride any of the bikes except the old Panhead , so we figured to give all the kids a bike , my wife mentioned she'd like to give the godson her little 500 cc Buell Blast Harley & i told him to come by & pick it up , this was before my son called this morning & filled me in on the shit he's pulling & how he's wasting $4k from his student loans every 90 days & that the kid is over $60k in debt with credit cards .

I knew the godson was living in one of our rental houses but since i turned the business over to my middle son i dont get involved , its his business now so i just advise him about which homes to buy , anyway come to find out my godson hasn't paid my son one lick of the $850 a month rent that house rents for in over 6 months , he shouldnt even be living in a house with rent that high but he has to live in a super nice house , my son dont want to boot him out cause he has 3 kids .

He claims he's broke but pays $220 a month for the premium cable tv package & all the pay channels like hbo , then he has wifi too , when i cussed him out today i pointed out that i use a tv antenna & get free tv , his reply was " I cant get by with the 20 channels you get " then he said he has to have $60 a month wifi because Facebook is faster on his phone & he plays online video games for relaxation , i blew up & made him go over his expenses with me .

He also spends over $100 a month at the shooting range on ammo for all his weapons , between cable , the shooting range & online video games he spends $500 a month but cant pay rent , he just bought an AK 47 a few months back & a new $800 9mm carbine , plus new rims for the Chrysler 300 we gave him last year for xmas ,when i cussed him out over wasting $1,600 on rims his excuse was one of the factory rims was all scratched up from hitting a curb so he HAD TO HAVE new rims .

I didnt want to upset my wife being she just had major surgery so i took him out to the garage to cuss him out , i was still gonna let him have the 500 cc Buell my wife wanted him to have but when i showed him which bike she wanted him to have i could see a look of dissapointment , so i ask him whats wrong & dig this , he says WOW THANKS but i was hoping i was gonna get memaws Fatboy because she cant ride it anymore , wtf ?

I explained he couldnt have her Fatboy because we were leaving it & my Panhead to our son's when we kick off , i could see his mind working & he had the balls to ask if he could have my 1200 cc Buell Lightning Harley racing bike instead of the smaller 500 cc Buell so he could keep up with the bigger bikes we gave our sons , i freaked out & gave him the cussing of his life & told him he wasnt getting anything & to leave now , he wanted to go in & talk to my wife about it before he left, i said no & made him leave .

He wasnt gone 10 minutes before he called my wife blubbering like a baby , got her all upset & she says to me just give the kid your Buell poppa ,he's a good kid & we dont even ride the bikes , he's her favorite godson & i didnt want to upset her so i told her i'd let him have one of the other bikes ( I lied )then i called my son & filled him in on what went down .

Now my son's pissed & gives me more bad shit about him being too lazy to work , apparently my son offered him a job at $12 an hour helping my 2 brother in laws remodel the houses we flip & he said no because if he worked for $12 an hour it would take away from his Bridge Card welfare money & his food stamps , he said he'd be breaking even if he worked for that low of pay !

I just found out 90% of this bullshit with him today , my son's both told me today that he whines & crys all the time because of the money they make & gives em the " It must be nice " speach because they both have paid off homes that the business owns but the kid wont work & jacks all his loan money off on fancy shit he cant afford , then spends every penny trying to keep up with other people who earn more than him .

My whole days been fuked up over this shit , i had no idea my own godson was a lazy welfare bum who refuses to work ,he's behind $5 grand in rent allready & if he dont pay next months rent im kicking his ass out of the house & having an accident with my wifes cell phone so he cant cry to her about how bad he's got it .

 

[spandy]

Yeah you're always going to have your loser they just don't want to do anything. and i know Comfortable living is a broad statement. I don't expect to be living extravagant buying boton multiple Exotic cars. By every working person should be able to buy a car that actually works. I can by no means afford car payment so I am forced to buy cars off of Craigslist instead. And I've bought several that I just broke down within a week after spending the thousand dollars that I saved up on it. And table is only like 70 dollars a month so I should definitely be able to afford that if I work 60 hours a week. And I should be able to take my wife out to a dinner that cost $4o On my one day off without worrying about being able to pay my bills. Such small insignificant amount of money. shouldent break a working man

That dinner with your wife is taking a decent car out of your hands. Cook at home, save 30 bucks a week, and that problem is gone, literally.

Unless we are all entitled to one 40 dollar dinner a week with our wives, I'd say you are spending money you don't have.

 

[superloud]

Hyundai offers cars for $99/mnth lease. With insurance and gas, your auto budget should be roughly $300 a month. If you make $1800 a month, that's roughly 17% of you monthly income. That leaves 83% of your income left for rent, food, bills and savings.

Can I assume your wife works as well?

Yeah she works part time brings home a little over 200 every two weeks. But my gas budget alone is 240 a month Insurance is 156. Add your hundred dollars for a car payment rounded up that's $500 a month for a car

 

[superloud]

That dinner with your wife is taking a decent car out of your hands. Cook at home, save 30 bucks a week, and that problem is gone, literally.

Unless we are all entitled to one 40 dollar dinner a week with our wives, I'd say you are spending money you don't have.

I didn't say I was entitled to the dinner I said I believe a working man shouldnt be broke after going to a dinner. See you all keep on using words like entitled and give I'm not asking to be given anything. I just do not think I am paid fairly for the work that I do and the amount and time that I spend doing the work. Compare to others doing the same amount of work or less work than me.

 

[tightpockt]

I didn't say I was entitled to the dinner I said I believe a working man shouldnt be broke after going to a dinner. See you all keep on using words like entitled and give I'm not asking to be given anything. I just do not think I am paid fairly for the work that I do and the amount and time that I spend doing the work. Compare to others doing the same amount of work or less work than me.

So is it up to the government to change your situation or is it up to you? if you asked your boss for more money how woukd you justify it? How have you made yourself indispensable? Are you easily replaced?

 

[spandy]

I didn't say I was entitled to the dinner I said I believe a working man shouldnt be broke after going to a dinner.

Because a working man is entitled to not be broke after blowing 40 bucks on dinner?

Spin it again, you landed on black.

So is it up to the government to change your situation or is it up to you? if you asked your boss for more money how woukd you justify it? How have you made yourself indispensable? Are you easily replaced?

Entitled
Couldn't
Haven't
Yes

 

[panhead]

U should get payed for what ur worth and the skills u have

You & i have allready discussed this , you do not get paid what your skill set is worth or in proportion to the profits your company makes off the labor you provide them , 3 or 4 squares that takes one man 2 hours work pays your whole weekly salary , that is not getting paid according to skills but your employer will say otherwise .

Whats happening at your company is a good indicator of unfair distribution of wealth that padawan is getting at .

 

[see4]

Yea you don't gotta tell me that. Lol fucking retarded expensive just to live.

that's one of the reason why i moved. i'd rather spend my money on other things than overpriced shit in Boston.

Yeah she works part time brings home a little over 200 every two weeks. But my gas budget alone is 240 a month Insurance is 156. Add your hundred dollars for a car payment rounded up that's $500 a month for a car

if you don't mind me asking, how old are you and your wife? and why does she work only part time? and how is your insurance $156 a month? I pay $105 a month on two cars fully loaded.

it seems to me what you should be doing is drafting a budget, a strict one, and sticking to it very closely until you manage yourself into a comfort zone.

 

[panhead]

How have you made yourself indispensable? Are you easily replaced?

Why does somebody have to be indispensable or irreplaceable in order to recieve & fair share of the companies profits ? Should the corporate investors make assloads of cash & the worker who invests his life working there scrape by every week ?.

I dont understand whats happened to Americans in the last 40 yrs , everybody is convinced that $15 an hour is BIG money & corporations will collapse if they pay livable wages .

 

[superloud]

that's one of the reason why i moved. i'd rather spend my money on other things than overpriced shit in Boston.



if you don't mind me asking, how old are you and your wife? and why does she work only part time? and how is your insurance $156 a month? I pay $105 a month on two cars fully loaded.

it seems to me what you should be doing is drafting a budget, a strict one, and sticking to it very closely until you manage yourself into a comfort zone.

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm saying if I work 50 or 60 hours a week Going out to a $40 dinner with me my wife and child Should not be out of the budget.

 

[Carolina Dream'n]

Why does somebody have to be indispensable or irreplaceable in order to recieve & fair share of the companies profits ? Should the corporate investors make assloads of cash & the worker who invests his life working there scrape by every week ?.

I dont understand whats happened to Americans in the last 40 yrs , everybody is convinced that $15 an hour is BIG money & corporations will collapse if they pay livable wages .

Yes the investors should make more money, they took the risk. Corporations wouldn't b worth the time or investment if the top dog didn't make the majority of the money. You make your future, not the salary you get paid. We are all capable of producing enough for ourselves if we just put our minds to it.

To put thing into perspective-

A grower makes runs 16 lights and harvested around 30 lbs. he payed trimmers 200 a lb to trim. He then turns around and sells those 30 lbs for 2k a piece for a total of 60k. After he pays his trimmers a total of 6k and his bills he probably profited 40k off the harvest while the trimmers only get a cpl hundred. This is fair because the grower did all work setting up, growing an everything else. While the trimmers have one job. An easy one at that. The person take the finicial risk should make 10fold of those that just show up.

 

[tightpockt]

Why does somebody have to be indispensable or irreplaceable in order to recieve & fair share of the companies profits ?.

because you are competing against people who do take steps to set themselves apart.
Also, who's to say what a "fair" share is? That's besides the point. If you didn't make an agreement where you receive a share of the company's profits then you don't 'deserve' a share of anything.
We're talking all businesses not just multi million dollar coorporations. you're saying the government should force an ice cream shop owner to pay a 16 year old girl $15 an hour to scoop ice cream?

 

[theexpress]

that's one of the reason why i moved. i'd rather spend my money on other things than overpriced shit in Boston.



if you don't mind me asking, how old are you and your wife? and why does she work only part time? and how is your insurance $156 a month? I pay $105 a month on two cars fully loaded.

it seems to me what you should be doing is drafting a budget, a strict one, and sticking to it very closely until you manage yourself into a comfort zone.

I like Chicago better then Boston.. never been to Boston though lol. I may be biased. People here talk funny enough Boston Fuck all that. Bruce Raunmer layed the smack down on Emanuel today. Says the state will not bail out the city. Time to get that pension Shit in check.

 

[sheskunk]

thread = lol

 

[gunnar&carey]

You & i have allready discussed this , you do not get paid what your skill set is worth or in proportion to the profits your company makes off the labor you provide them , 3 or 4 squares that takes one man 2 hours work pays your whole weekly salary , that is not getting paid according to skills but your employer will say otherwise .

Whats happening at your company is a good indicator of unfair distribution of wealth that padawan is getting at .

Oh ok see now u explained it in a way i can grasp, thanks. But understandable employers want to have the best life money can buy they did dk all the leg work in creating a profitable company and are employing many ppl, in turn i think its wrong thinking but that don't matter im the small man on the totem poll, but i sure think after ur employees make u a millionaire u should start to pay then alot more cuz lets face it u cant take it when ur dead