Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

  • Yes, I believe employers should provide a living wage to their employees

    Votes: 27 48.2%

  • No, I believe wages should strictly be decided by the employer, at his/her own discretion

    Votes: 13 23.2%

  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 16 28.6%
  • Total voters
    56
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
Does a living wage include the funds to buy as much nonessential craps as a person thinks they should have. Does Pay Per View count as an essential need. How about cell phones and shiney wheels and new, fancy clothes. You will have to define what a living wage would be expected to cover before you will get a reasonable answer.
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My idea of a basic living wage for full time workers doing meaniel entry level jobs is this .

Having the means to provide full time shelter .

Having the means to eat 3 square healthy meals a day .

Having the means to pay essential utilities , including basic cell phone service , cable is a luxury .

Having the means to provide clean all weather clothing .

Having the means to pay for reliable transportation , subway , taxi , bus , car ect .

Having the ability to seek out & recieve adequate health care without going into life long debt .

Having the means to acquire all essentials without government assistance .
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
My idea of a basic living wage for full time workers doing meaniel entry level jobs is this .

Having the means to provide full time shelter .

Having the means to eat 3 square healthy meals a day .

Having the means to pay essential utilities , including basic cell phone service , cable is a luxury .

Having the means to provide clean all weather clothing .

Having the means to pay for reliable transportation , subway , taxi , bus , car ect .

Having the ability to seek out & recieve adequate health care without going into life long debt .

Having the means to acquire all essentials without government assistance .
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desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If we're using this analogy, the only buyers you have are offering $.05/oz. Buyers = employers in this analogy, in my example no employer will pay you above $.05/day meaning no buyer will pay you more than $.05/oz for your weed

If I was starving (like many minimum wage workers are today), I would absolutely sell an oz of my weed for $.05, and that's the problem
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If nobody will pay more than a nickel per ounce for your weed, then your weed is worth a nickel an ounce. No amount of hand wringing will change that.

Labor is a commodity like any other. The market sets the rate. Economics 101. Study it.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Yeah, this one is epic. If burger flippers get $15.00 an hour I want a 30% raise too.
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It depends on where you live & burger prices are wildly different .

At our house in Bloomfield Hills it costs $3 more for a big mac meal than inner city Detroit & mickey d's pays right around $12 an hour , in Detroit they pay minimum wage .

Is $15 an hour really that much money ? I was making well over $50 an hour when i retired with kick ass health dental & vision coverage , great pension plan too & the company i retired from is still very profitable .
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
If nobody will pay more than a nickel per ounce for your weed, then your weed is worth a nickel an ounce.
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...and nobody would be selling weed to make a living..

That's not the point, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about jobs people work to provide a life for themselves and their family

So I'll ask you a few fundamental questions that I think are key to understanding this question from each perspective;

-Do you think that anyone who works full time (40 hours/week) should be able to afford what @panhead so clearly & calmly listed in post #81?

-Do you think it's OK that some people have to work more than one full time job to provide for themselves and/or their families? If so, how do you expect them to increase their status of economic position?

-What do you think about Floyd Mayweather and his recent paycheck of $180 million for his win over Pacman? (He's illiterate, the dude can't read, and he just made $180 million dollars in one night, I'm just wondering how you felt about that?)

desert dude said:
Labor is a commodity like any other. The market sets the rate.
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I suppose you support offshoring American businesses in search of lower labor costs then, right? Sending American jobs overseas, I mean, if the market sets the rate, right? You wouldn't see any benefit of employing American workers and providing them with a living wage, after all.. the bottom line is the most important thing..

See, man.. that's the problem with this Ayn Rand sort of structure of business, it demands profits over, and in spite of everything else and it damages productivity, employee satisfaction, morale, efficiency, costs.. That's why a co-op kind of business structure would be better, it eliminates each of these negative aspects of a self defeating business model as, again, people who don't have money can't spend money to stimulate the economy, therefore, a poor/middle class that has no money, is highly taxed, has a high unemployment rate and little opportunity to advance themselves will be a burden on the economy. GOP economic policies guarantee slower, if ever, recovery. Check history for your answers.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
All of that is irrelevant to this question. Do you simply think Americans who work full time should be paid a living wage. Forget everything else to answer that question
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They should be paid what they're worth as set in company policy or negociated between the employer and the prospect.

IOW, in a nutshell, what an employee gets paid is none of the government's fuckin' business, or anyone else's for that matter.

Sheesh, this is such a stale argument and really a moot point.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
then go build a house for under $100 a square foot and show me what it looks like.
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I did, about $68/s.f. finished in 2005 before building costs increased. (That does not include the cost of the land). It's spacious, beautiful with "luxury" appliances & fixtures, rock exterior, re-bar slab, 3,500 s.f., super efficient, ceramic tile and carpeted floors, eclectic ceramic tiled walk in shower in the master bathroom, Trane heat pump with variable speed compressor and condenser, well with unlimited supply of water for pennies/day, huge chef's kitchen with top tier blue pearl granite countertops, composite granite sink, built in microwave, 3 refrigerators (one's a top of the line Beverage Air kegerator), 1 freezer, wine cellar, 3 bedroom 2 bath, parlor, office, 2 car garage, huge home theater with Panasonic 3-D front projector, 3 amps, 8 speakers, 2 outdoor patios one over looking a vineyard planted in premium wine grape and much more on 20 acres of income producing farm land. Garden, fruit trees, pecans, etc. I pretty much grow our own food.

Next goal, as soon as the rain lets up - new road and teardrop turnaround constructed, grade old road, graded roadbase, sealed with shot of asphalt, then 2 top coats of chip/seal to finish it off. Cost? $18,200 which includes me fetching and paying for a 16' culvert.

Save, invest, plan, execute.

Uncle Ben
 
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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
It depends on where you live & burger prices are wildly different .

Is $15 an hour really that much money ? I was making well over $50 an hour when i retired with kick ass health dental & vision coverage , great pension plan too & the company i retired from is still very profitable .
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Here in Texas that $50/hr. is big money except in high tech areas like Austin which has a really high income average. I too retired after 27 years of putting up with bullshit from folks that didn't know what they're doing but stuck with it cause I could see the light at the end of the tunnel and was making plans of moving and building my dream house. I'm now enjoying my pension, savings, etc. Too many kids these days don't understand the concept of deferred gratification and will never get to where you and I did. They'll piss off their time and money on stupid shit. My older sister and her husband are like that. They can take 2 nickels, rub them together and the nickels disappear in thin air. :)
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
If it takes a village to raise a child, who's going to do it if we are all at work?

(hint, the village idiot is the only one left to teach the difference between right and wrong.)

I hear Isis is now providing daycare.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
...and nobody would be selling weed to make a living..

That's not the point, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about jobs people work to provide a life for themselves and their family

So I'll ask you a few fundamental questions that I think are key to understanding this question from each perspective;

-Do you think that anyone who works full time (40 hours/week) should be able to afford what @panhead so clearly & calmly listed in post #81?

-Do you think it's OK that some people have to work more than one full time job to provide for themselves and/or their families? If so, how do you expect them to increase their status of economic position?

-What do you think about Floyd Mayweather and his recent paycheck of $180 million for his win over Pacman? (He's illiterate, the dude can't read, and he just made $180 million dollars in one night, I'm just wondering how you felt about that?)


I suppose you support offshoring American businesses in search of lower labor costs then, right? Sending American jobs overseas, I mean, if the market sets the rate, right? You wouldn't see any benefit of employing American workers and providing them with a living wage, after all.. the bottom line is the most important thing..

See, man.. that's the problem with this Ayn Rand sort of structure of business, it demands profits over, and in spite of everything else and it damages productivity, employee satisfaction, morale, efficiency, costs.. That's why a co-op kind of business structure would be better, it eliminates each of these negative aspects of a self defeating business model as, again, people who don't have money can't spend money to stimulate the economy, therefore, a poor/middle class that has no money, is highly taxed, has a high unemployment rate and little opportunity to advance themselves will be a burden on the economy. GOP economic policies guarantee slower, if ever, recovery. Check history for your answers.
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I am not going to address the points you raise, there is no point. You don't have a clue about simple economics. Carry on with your weeping, I am sure it will help.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I did, about $68/s.f. finished in 2005 before building costs increased. (That does not include the cost of the land). It's spacious, beautiful with "luxury" appliances & fixtures, rock exterior, re-bar slab, 3,500 s.f., super efficient, ceramic tile and carpeted floors, eclectic ceramic tiled walk in shower in the master bathroom, Trane heat pump with variable speed compressor and condenser, well with unlimited supply of water for pennies/day, huge chef's kitchen with top tier blue pearl granite countertops, composite granite sink, built in microwave, 3 refrigerators (one's a top of the line Beverage Air kegerator), 1 freezer, wine cellar, 3 bedroom 2 bath, parlor, office, 2 car garage, huge home theater with Panasonic 3-D front projector, 3 amps, 8 speakers, 2 outdoor patios one over looking a vineyard planted in premium wine grape and much more on 20 acres of income producing farm land. Garden, fruit trees, pecans, etc. I pretty much grow our own food.

Next goal, as soon as the rain lets up - new road and teardrop turnaround constructed, grade old road, graded roadbase, sealed with shot of asphalt, then 2 top coats of chip/seal to finish it off. Cost? $18,200 which includes me fetching and paying for a 16' culvert.

Save, invest, plan, execute.

Uncle Ben
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so add for inflation ($1 in 2005 = $1.20 in 2015) and you're already at $82 per square foot and you didn't even include the cost of the land.

you don't even have a driveway for this shit shack.

i like how you put "luxury" in quotations to tip us all off that you fetched some throwaway appliances on the annual junk recycling day.

"eclectic" tile? oh, you mean a pile of old shit tile that you hobbled together and tried to pass off.

carpet? yuck.

you're at $100 per square foot and too ashamed to show us a picture of this piece of shit.

no mention of permits for tapping into electric, gas, etcetera.
 
superloud

superloud

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Yeah, man, that's fucked up. $600/week wouldn't be that bad if the cost of living wasn't so high. Someone making ~$30K a year shouldn't be living paycheck to paycheck, and our gov. says the poverty line is fuckin' $11,770 for individuals.

So let me ask you, how do you think your lifestyle would change if instead of $600/week you were paid $245/week?
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I make about 460 for a 50 hour week. And I usually end up over drafting my account every week to get gas and food for the last couple days before I get paid again. My treat 75 a week I would probably have to be living with somebody. That didn't make me pay any rent or utilities. Then I might still be able to afford the food and gas I need to get to work to feed my child and wife and myself.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
superloud said:
I make about 460 for a 50 hour week. And I usually end up over drafting my account every week to get gas and food for the last couple days before I get paid again. My treat 75 a week I would probably have to be living with somebody. That didn't make me pay any rent or utilities. Then I might still be able to afford the food and gas I need to get to work to feed my child and wife and myself.
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That's unacceptable in country that has the ability to provide higher wages to workers, and yet the poll at the top of this page doesn't read 100% in favor of a living wage. There is a section of our population that is convinced poor people shouldn't be paid enough to support themselves working full time (a lot of them being poor themselves)

Organized religion, lack of education, lots of things to blame on that one
 
superloud

superloud

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
That's unacceptable in country that has the ability to provide higher wages to workers, and yet the poll at the top of this page doesn't read 100% in favor of a living wage. There is a section of our population that is convinced poor people shouldn't be paid enough to support themselves working full time (a lot of them being poor themselves)

Organized religion, lack of education, lots of things to blame on that one
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Yea its Ridiculous. i work 50to 60 hrs a week get paid every two weeks and haven't brought home more than 1000
 
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