WOW! The War On White Old Men..

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
There seems to be some major discrepancies between statutory vs effective tax rates. The corporate tax rate after the states add their mark up doesn't include credits and exemptions so it is very misleading. A GAO report found effective tax rate for most US corporations was 16.6% - http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/654957.pdf GAO report outlines the findings after looking at US companies with at $10m in assets.
It's worse; the more money you have, the more you can afford to pay tax attorneys to 'legally' evade even more- to the point where the world's largest corporations pay zero tax dollars??? So only the rich get all the deductions and can afford to qualify for them.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Yes, i can blame them. And who wrote those outrageous tax laws that leave only "keep your money out of the country" as the only viable solution?

Cattle always run from a threat. It's easy to make them go where you want, you only have to provide them a path to where you want them to go, and put a predator behind them on the other side.

So, why would US Law guide wealth out of the country?

It's clear that is their intention, but why? Why deplete and deprive the country of wealth generated by its citizens and businesses?

I think i need the ulterior motives spelled out for me (and more importantly: for everyone else).
I'm interested in your guess as much as anyone's, seriously.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I know what you're thinking, and there are a few economics classes to take before I can use a chalkboard and the accepted vernacular, but 'bullshit'.

Low taxes don't spur economic growth, they retard it. The record is stunningly clear on this point.

We don't need 'more' or 'less' government, we need 'better' government; one that works for the 99% instead of against us. The models are everywhere, the idea that it can't be or shouldn't be done is laughably transparent propaganda by those who like/pay/run things as they are now.
So lets just set the tax rate to 99% because obviously high taxes promote growth!! Then in a few years we can move it down to 98% and the people get to keep 100% more of their income. We should worship our benevolent government for only taking that little. It should be 99.9999 because the government knows how to spend the money better than the people. It will usher in a new amazing level of productivity!!! Or not...
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Sky..

It looked to me like she was making a fool of her self.
you can tell when she gets to him..he flinches and starts looking aorund like he laid the biggest stinkiest fart..he's lookiing in the wrong palce though, shuld be looking in the mirror.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Buck..

He sure as the fuck can move back there if he wants to. Texas would sure like to have a solution to the hispanic baby problem. Maybe the Dems will share there expertise now that they are becoming experts.
nitro - relax..they already habla the language..that big mac will still be made right:wink:
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
So lets just set the tax rate to 99% because obviously high taxes promote growth!! Then in a few years we can move it down to 98% and the people get to keep 100% more of their income. We should worship our benevolent government for only taking that little. It should be 99.9999 because the government knows how to spend the money better than the people. It will usher in a new amazing level of productivity!!! Or not...
get rid of the loopholes and pay your fair share!
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I know what you're thinking, and there are a few economics classes to take before I can use a chalkboard and the accepted vernacular, but 'bullshit'.

Low taxes don't spur economic growth, they retard it. The record is stunningly clear on this point.

We don't need 'more' or 'less' government, we need 'better' government; one that works for the 99% instead of against us. The models are everywhere, the idea that it can't be or shouldn't be done is laughably transparent propaganda by those who like/pay/run things as they are now.

Since government as most of us know it, has coercion built in from the start, how would you make something "good" from a system that has coercion baked into it from the start?
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
You are being brainwashed. We are over 17 trillion dollars in debt. There isnt a trillionaire on the planet yet. There was a time in this countries history when one man did bail out the government from his personal finances but it has become so bloated and needy that confiscating the wealth of the top 10% of the people would not even make a dent in our debt.

Yet somehow it is always the rich that are at fault....

How about we stop spending??
we can start with military since we certainly can't afford medical for soldiers after retirement.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
we can start with military since we certainly can't afford medical for soldiers after retirement.

It's good that you think funding institutions of planned violence (military) is something that should be reconsidered.

What do you propose be done about the violence implied in certain "mandates" like forced purchasing of healthcare?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Since government as most of us know it, has coercion built in from the start, how would you make something "good" from a system that has coercion baked into it from the start?
That's another assumption handed to you by those with poisonous intent.
Prove the opposite.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
you can tell when she gets to him..he flinches and starts looking aorund like he laid the biggest stinkiest fart..he's lookiing in the wrong palce though, shuld be looking in the mirror.
Sky..

I didn't like her, she seemed kinda childish to me. We will see how she does this november.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
That's another assumption handed to you by those with poisonous intent.
Prove the opposite.

It doesn't need to be proven. It is self evident. Most systems of governance do not rely on consent, they rest on coercion....are you really going to say they don't? This should be interesting.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
nitro - relax..they already habla the language..that big mac will still be made right:wink:
Sky..

I don't eat big macs, they cost to much . I am more of a dollar menu guy. I can see another run on firearms and ammo coming, Just yesterday I walk in a gun store and purchased two 1911 .45cal hand guns with 1000 rounds of ammo. I did that when I looked at the pictures of the gitmo five that were released and started thinking these people are Obamas new advisers. Another two more years of what I see going on here at home and we might end up like gaza and Israel.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
So lets just set the tax rate to 99% because obviously high taxes promote growth!! Then in a few years we can move it down to 98% and the people get to keep 100% more of their income. We should worship our benevolent government for only taking that little. It should be 99.9999 because the government knows how to spend the money better than the people. It will usher in a new amazing level of productivity!!! Or not...
The only time taxes were that high was to raise money to support World War 2, when it was reasonably felt that failure to throw everything at the war effort could mean the loss of our way of life.

Now I'll bet someone will trot out the old saw about how America has some of the works biggest corporate taxes- yeah, that might be an issue if any of the largest and most successful companies actually PAID their national rate, but the system is so loaded with holes it makes Swiss cheese look solid. GE, one of the works largest and most successful corporations, regularly pays a tiny fraction of one percent of its actually profits in taxes- and the rest of the country thinks this is acceptable.

When they start their game of 'who gives the biggest tax dodge', they should be invited to leave the country- and their corporate charter. In other words, any corporation that doesn't feel like paying their fair share of taxes is more than welcome to STOP DOING BUSINESS IN AMERICA AT ALL.

They'd get real patriotic in a big fucking hurry- and I'll bet America's roads, bridges, buses and rail systems- as top of mind examples- would suddenly find themselves with better funding.

Yes, we need publicly funded infrastructure. That's how it got built in the first place, and everyone benefits, including the companies that help support it. The lies about taxes, how they get wasted and how the government doesn't deserve the money are all a smokescreen to sucker the foolish into thinking that government don't need money to work- and therefore the rich are justified in dodging theirs, too.

That whole line of thinking is poisonous and leads to revolution.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
It doesn't need to be proven. It is self evident. Most systems of governance do not rely on consent, they rest on coercion....are you really going to say they don't? This should be interesting.
Those that do always fall.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
The only time taxes were that high was to raise money to support World War 2, when it was reasonably felt that failure to throw everything at the war effort could mean the loss of our way of life.

Now I'll bet someone will trot out the old saw about how America has some of the works biggest corporate taxes- yeah, that might be an issue if any of the largest and most successful companies actually PAID their national rate, but the system is so loaded with holes it makes Swiss cheese look solid. GE, one of the works largest and most successful corporations, regularly pays a tiny fraction of one percent of its actually profits in taxes- and the rest of the country thinks this is acceptable.

When they start their game of 'who gives the biggest tax dodge', they should be invited to leave the country- and their corporate charter. In other words, any corporation that doesn't feel like paying their fair share of taxes is more than welcome to STOP DOING BUSINESS IN AMERICA AT ALL.

They'd get real patriotic in a big fucking hurry- and I'll bet America's roads, bridges, buses and rail systems- as top of mind examples- would suddenly find themselves with better funding.

Yes, we need publicly funded infrastructure. That's how it got built in the first place, and everyone benefits, including the companies that help support it. The lies about taxes, how they get wasted and how the government doesn't deserve the money are all a smokescreen to sucker the foolish into thinking that government don't need money to work- and therefore the rich are justified in dodging theirs, too.

That whole line of thinking is poisonous and leads to revolution.

Hey ttystikk..

I have been around for awhile and this is a good read. To me it was the beginning of the end. Free trade crippled my business for twenty years and just this last ten years it has gotten better. But I watched many people fail that couldn't hold on long enough to over come what free trade has done here in america for small business. We can thank Billy and Hilly.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Hey ttystikk..

I have been around for awhile and this is a good read. To me it was the beginning of the end. Free trade crippled my business for twenty years and just this last ten years it has gotten better. But I watched many people fail that couldn't hold on long enough to over come what free trade has done here in america for small business. We can thank Billy and Hilly.

here is a good read..I meant for it to be in my other post.


Today is the day I tried to warn the "Free-Trade" enthusiasts about.


When President Bill Clinton signed off on the North American Free Trade Agreement and the General Agreement on Trade & Tariffs in 1993, otherwise known as NAFTA/GATT, he quite literally slashed the economic throat of the United States. We've been hemorrhaging jobs to foreign nations like Communist China ever since.


Until 1993, the United States of America was the world's economic king, and our people enjoyed the highest standard of living in recorded history. But NAFTA/GATT changed all that by virtually removing all trade protections that ensured our general prosperity.


Compared to the United States, labor costs in China, Indonesia and similar nations were substantially lower than what U.S. workers earned. NAFTA/GATT allowed our corporations and U.S. entrepreneurs to move their manufacturing technology overseas and take advantage of the reduced costs of doing business, while avoiding our former trade protections that made such a move prior to NAFTA/GATT unprofitable. For those enterprises that made the move overseas right away, there was nothing but exorbitant profits to be made.


What could be better for a typical American manufacturer? You get to avoid all U.S. payroll taxes, worker's compensation costs and environmental regulations and hurdles. You no longer have to deal with unions and provide employee benefits like health insurance and retirement plans. You get to manufacture in China, Indonesia and similar foreign nations to your heart's content, and you still get to sell your products to the U.S. consumer at the same or nearly the same cost as before.


Those who benefited are the stockholders of these firms and their top CEOs and CFOs. If you had money to invest before NAFTA/GATT, your returns on the investments spiked. But if you are just the typical middle-class American family with an average $9,000.00 per month credit card balance and little or no savings except what's in your 401k, you didn't have the chance to participate in that gold rush. You were blind-sided and left behind, and the immediate effect of NAFTA/GATT was for around five million people who had high-paying, family wage paying manufacturing jobs to lose them to low-wage workers overseas.


The long-term effect of NAFTA/GATT just emerged in the form of Circuit City firing 3,400 of its highest paid employees for the publicly announced purpose of hiring replacements who will work for substantially less.


One of the major points I tried to drive home was that the standard of living in the United States would be drawn down by NAFTA/GATT, while the nations that now host those manufacturing jobs will see a modest gain. Where China is concerned, everything is relative, and relative to the standard of living China had before NAFTA/GATT, the Chinese people are experiencing a surge on par with the typical American family of the 50s, with a modest home and one car, but it represents a vast improvement over what they had before.


We've all heard stories of how people who once held higher-paying U.S. manufacturing jobs are now working two or three service jobs. Now we see that a major employer of service positions is forcing their highest paid workers out while bringing in people who will do the same job for less. Walmart has been doing that for years, although not blatantly. The shameless announcement by Circuit City is blatant, and there will be little if any backlash. The presently unemployed or under-paid employed will happily fill those Circuit City positions, and after a nice 10-week interlude, those former Circuit City employees can apply to get hired back at the reduced wage too.


What does that tell you? Now, service employers domiciled in the United States, who have no union entanglements, are embarking on a quest to force American wages down to increase corporate profits. So again we see the only beneficiaries will be those who can still make investments, and those employed at the top of the corporate ladders the very wealthiest Americans. The rest make up those often referred to now as, "The Shrinking Middle Class", but that's a misnomer. Considering a burgeoning debt level and a lack of personal savings not seen since the Great Depression, these people are the "New Poor" who just don't know it yet. They still have their expensive cars and nice homes for now, but they can't draw any more equity from their homes through refinancing, so they are adding to their credit card debt just to pay for basics like clothing and groceries.


In case you missed the latest report, it is common for average American families to spend 110% or more of their actual income, year after year, and that trend is impossible to sustain. At one point or another, those at-risk families are going to hit the wall and lose just about everything, and in many cases they will be denied the right to discharge their debts through Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, due to the Bankruptcy Reform Bill pushed by the credit card companies and signed into law by President Bush. You may be unaware that the largest single contributors to Bush 43's election campaigns were predatory credit card companies, who saw this day coming from long distance and made sure they were insulated from the fallout when it hit.


For Americans in general, the solution to this impending disaster is to reverse and cancel NAFTA/GATT immediately, restore our tariff and trade restrictions and set a rule that those manufacturers who want to sell to Americans had better plan on moving back to manufacture in America. The United States is still the most powerful consumer force in the world, so the incentive for cooperation is there.


Next, credit card companies should be regulated as they were before President Ronald Reagan removed usury restrictions and allowed them to charge any interest rate the market could bear. As I recall, credit card companies were allowed to charge 2% higher interest than the Prime Rate at the time, and no more than that.


Next, our returning manufacturers would get first dibs on raw materials produced in America, no matter what the Chinese would be willing to pay. That happens to be China's Achilles Heel, and it explains why our exports to China are largely raw commodities like wood, metals, chemicals, etc. China, as big as it is, doesn't have raw commodities to manufacture into desirable goods like the United States does, and if they don't have the raw materials, they can't produce the goods. Get it?


I know I sound mercenary, self-centered and all the other titles that go with those who oppose "free trade", but let me assure every one of you that what you see happening to the highest paid employees at Circuit City is just around the corner from happening to you or someone close. Free trade, as provided by NAFTA/GATT, is killing the American way of life and slashing our standard of living.


This once proud land of opportunity is no more. Just look at what happened to those United and Delta Airlines pilots who retired after 30 years service, only to see their former employers file bankruptcy and slash their pensions by one third or more. There's not a thing they can do about it. By carefully planned, long-term design, the corporations are now holding all the marbles, and We The People now hold none.


If you ask the average American on the street what issue is most pressing for this nation, most will tell you it is the war in Iraq. That is just how poorly informed Americans are. In truth, the most pressing issue facing Americans is our shrinking and collapsing economy due to NAFTA/GATT and our free trade policies.


So far, I haven't heard a single presidential candidate, other than Representative and presidential hopeful Ron Paul, mention the threat or what s/he would do about it. Hillary Clinton is married to the former president who signed NAFTA/GATT into law, so I wouldn't look in her direction for the solution, and since none of the other "major" candidates even mention the scourge of NAFTA/GATT, I wouldn't trust them either.


If nothing is done to correct this impending nightmare, just about every American family will suffer in one way or another, and most will find the experience immediately catastrophic, followed by a permanent reduction of living standard that cannot be recovered from in theirs, or even their children's lifetimes.


Carl F. Worden
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Hey ttystikk..

I have been around for awhile and this is a good read. To me it was the beginning of the end. Free trade crippled my business for twenty years and just this last ten years it has gotten better. But I watched many people fail that couldn't hold on long enough to over come what free trade has done here in america for small business. We can thank Billy and Hilly.
They got suckered by the Business Establishment just like everyone else. Don't let yourself get sucked into left vs right thinking, because the REAL enemy- the majority owners of America's largest and most powerful corporations- own and operate both parties as their personal mouthpieces... Just like pretty much every politician well funded enough to gain national attention has to be- where else will they get the money?

It takes hundreds of millions of dollars to run a competitive Presidential campaign in America today.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE DEMOCRACY TO YOU?!
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
get rid of the loopholes and pay your fair share!
Suppose I make $5 million per year. What would my fair share be?

The 5 million is a salary for being the coach of a football team. That is the total gross amount of money that is put in my hand each year.

What would be fair in your view?
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
What's very interesting about this new found "war" by our brethren on the right?

They are just starting to get it:wink:

*as schuylaar predicted

:mrgreen:

But Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) begged to differ. When he was asked by Laura Ingraham today to react to Fournier’s remark, he threw down the gauntlet.

Brooks: This is a part of the war on whites that’s being launched by the Democratic Party. And the way in which they’re launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else. It’s a part of the strategy that Barack Obama implemented in 2008, continued in 2012, where he divides us all on race, on sex, greed, envy, class warfare, all those kinds of things. Well that’s not true. Okay?

And if you look at the polling data, every demographic group in America agrees with the rule of law, enforcing and securing our borders. And every one of them understands that illegal immigration hurts every single demographic group. It doesn’t make a difference if you’re a white American, a black American, Hispanic American, an Asian American or if you’re a woman or a man. Every single demographic group is hurt by falling wages and lost jobs.

And so the Democrats, they have to demagogue on this and try and turn it into a racial issue, which is an emotional issue, rather than a thoughtful issue. If it becomes a thoughtful issue, then we win and we win big. And they lose and they lose big. And they understand that and as they get more desperate, they are going to argue race and things like that to a much heightened emotional state. . . .

Ingraham: . . . [C]ongressman, don’t you think . . . that characterization is a little out there.

Brooks: But that is, in effect, what they’re doing, though. That’s the political game that they’re playing. . . .

Ingraham: No, they’re playing the ‘race’ card. They’re playing the ‘race’ card just like they’re playing the ‘war on women’ card. This is what the left does. But I just think that phraseology might not be the best choice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/08/04/rep-mo-brooks-talks-war-on-whites-as-the-gop-loses-the-battle-for-votes/
Aww. If I wanted to declare war on somebody, I'd poop on their porch. :D
 
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