Wisconsin Revolt

I rather sure none of us are suggesting to take away privilege, many are pointing out that American Capitalism has failed for all of Americans except 400 of them LOL!

I'm sure many just want a home and a job..

The People will win,,,Dictator's are highly frowned against in the USA.

"Why do you have a right to YOUR money?"

[video=youtube;wD809fp6i_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD809fp6i_0[/video]

That sums it up nicely.

[video=youtube;QyxuUjgHkgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyxuUjgHkgs[/video]

Carne Seca said:

They fucking pay 100 percent of their own pensions. Nobody is paying for them except the employees.

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They are getting it as part of their pay for the job, correct. The issue being that the employers (tax payers) do not get a say in how much they actually pay. It is being negotiated by what is essentially organized crime. The tax payer pays 100% of the pension, salaries, insurance, benefits for the teachers - the teachers do a job in return for it. This remains the same whether the teachers pay nothing or $5000 for their benefits. Once again - The tax payers pay all the money, the teachers do the work in return for it. No one forces the teachers to be teachers at a certain pay and no one should force the tax payers to pay the teachers a certain amount. How many teachers will quit over this small cut in pay to keep the state from going kaput? My guess is very few to none. What does this mean? This means the rate of pay is still sufficient for the job being done.

If you owned bought a burger place(the state-country-whatever) and you payed a manager to manage your store(president, gov, senate ect ect), and he hired a bunch people to work in your store (teachers, janitors, ect ect ect) for 10 bucks and everything was good, you made money. Then, the people decided they wanted 20 bucks an hour, so they started a union(or joined one) The laws made it so you couldn't hire anyone else and so your choice was pay 20 dollars or close down. What would your decision be? You can
a) Lose money (Deficit Spending)
b) Raise the price of the burgers to the point where no one is willing to pay (Raise Taxes)
c) Fight the pay increase in court and try to get rid of the union. (What Wisconsin is doing)
d) Close down (Bankruptcy)


These are the same choices that the Wisconsin Gov had to make. No one will answer D. Democrats will answer A or B. Republicans will answer C.

Deficit spending and raising taxes are BS and neither of them can continue to happen. Obviously someone chose A or B at some point in Wisconsin's history, and it obviously didn't work, so now they are trying C.

How much is a worker worth? Well, the honest answer is the least amount they are willing to work for. If you can hire teachers for 35k why would you hire them for 40k?

How much is success worth? Well, as much as a person is willing to pay to attain it.

The short and long of it is: If they don't want to work as teachers in Wisconsin making a few percent less, then they should go do something else with their lives.

Also, the 10-20% number that is bounced around by the left for how much the pay cut would be is BS. Since many of you argue that teachers pay 100% of their pensions already and that it is part of their pay, lets look at it your way then! Teachers make 100k a year on average in Wisconsin after all is said and done. They are being asked to pay how much? About 3000. So 3% pay cut. Boo friggin hoo. So lets skip forward to the real issue - Unions being allowed to negotiate with the government for benefits. OK. Lets make it a level playing ground and say:

EVERY UNION NEGOTIATION HAS TO BE APPROVED BY A VOTE OF THE TAXPAYERS FROM NOW ON.

Right now Unions negotiate with elected officials. The issue is that just about every Democrat gets money from the Unions. Then the Unions renegotiate every time a Democrat is in office and get more 'concessions'. If the Democrat was to deny the Unions, then the Union wouldn't support his campaign the next time. So the Democrat does whatever the Union wants. They call it blackmail and the Democrat isn't losing anything from siding with the Unions, he loses by siding with the Taxpayer. That is why each teacher costs 100k a year.

Walker is basically saying "Unions don't have the right to tell us what Benefits to offer any longer" Which makes sense. If you don't like the benefits, find a different job.

my wife is on the phone right now with my sis in law. she is a teacher in downtown LA. she teaches 6th grade english. she also helps with the science enrichment program for the 8th graders.

they are talking now because she just got out of work. 12 hour day. very common.

her salary? $46K a year.

that is pittance when you take into account the cost of living in downtown LA.

she is going to head home and grade papers now.

during the summer, which for her is only about a month and a half, she updates lesson plans and takes classes to better her education and teaching style. most of them are required.

how many people do you know with masters degrees work as hard as she does for so little money?

and why should she or any of her colleagues be forced to pay for a recession that they did not create?

Johnnyorganic said:

[video=youtube;QyxuUjgHkgs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyxuUjgHkgs[/video]

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That says it pretty fucking clearly.

The point they are making with attacking any organized labor is we must become worth-less as they see fit.

Carthoris said:

Greedy because they aren't giving away money? Isn't wanting more money being greedy too? Everyone is greedy - don't be mad because you aren't on top.

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yes, don't be mad because you aren't on top.

be mad because those on top have their boot firmly pressed on your neck, instead of a hand extended to help you up.

be mad because you play fair and work hard, while those on top rape the tax code and do whatever they can get away with to make another penny.

MrDank007 said:

What you can't admit is and what we are actually discussing is unsustainable regardless of all these other things. You show emotional ploys and whatabouts as do all these liberal authors and they may indeed be valid, but not one logical solution as how to keep the current way of doings things solvent. And it's because you can't. The fact of the matter is that it is unsustainable. It's unsustainable on it's own and unsustainable no matter what you conflate with it. The closest I saw was the Forbes author saying...well maybe the market will get so much better. That was unacceptable. The best case scenario unfortunately that I see actually happening is limping along until the next mess. But it's unclear if they can even do that at this point.

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say it again! say it again!

i think we may have found out new buzzword for 2011!

c'mon, righties, make it happen!

actually, my reaction is something a little more like this:

[video=youtube;G2y8Sx4B2Sk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

i can tell you exactly how to make it sustainable: don't give away the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tax breaks t corporations who don't need it, and you won't have to take it from the backs of teachers and nurses.

which, by the way, they have already agreed to.

so clearly, the money is not the issue: they have already conceded that.

what are you so afraid of, that they will bargain themselves a pay cut once again?

boo fucking hoo.

honor their contracts.

Rob Roy said:

...how are the "employees paid" ... thru a willing consumer or thru an offer the consumer of their "services" can't refuse?

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actually, property taxes from people who choose to move to a certain location voluntarily knowing that the property tax will be involved.

no force there. they have the decision to make and they make it. they could just as easily move somewhere else.

and they work to earn what they are paid, and i think if you went out and asked people, i wager you'd find they like the concept of public education and are willing to pay for it.

oh, also the lottery helps fund schools too. but i bet you think people are forced to buy lottery tickets.

Now this is getting interesting..

Johnnyorganic said:

"Why do you have a right to YOUR money?"

[video=youtube;wD809fp6i_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD809fp6i_0[/video]

That sums it up nicely.

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So the answer is we all have to lower our value and our expectations of life while some continue to enrich theirs because we are teachers or welders for example.
Nice to see that people are starting to see the Trickle Down Economy at work.

Johnnyorganic said:

"Why do you have a right to YOUR money?"

[video=youtube;wD809fp6i_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD809fp6i_0[/video]

That sums it up nicely.

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don't make me start posting videos of tea partiers

Because It's stolen? Why are the police and figherfighter's exempt? The are "Public secter Unions"?

UncleBuck said:

actually, property taxes from people who choose to move to a certain location voluntarily knowing that the property tax will be involved.

no force there. they have the decision to make and they make it. they could just as easily move somewhere else.

and they work to earn what they are paid, and i think if you went out and asked people, i wager you'd find they like the concept of public education and are willing to pay for it.

oh, also the lottery helps fund schools too. but i bet you think people are forced to buy lottery tickets.

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Your first example relies on the same logic as saying if she hadn't worn that low cut blouse nobody would have raped her.

Your second line would be near valid if the place a person could "voluntarily" move to provided a sancuary from the imposition of force.
If there is no way to "not pay" something, the use of voluntary is incorrect.

I have no problem with those that like public schools paying for it. My problem lies with those that don't like public schools being made to pay for them under the threat of force, which you always seem to conveniently forget or gloss over.

Lottery tickets? Nobody has forced me to buy them, but they would attack me if I attempted to have a private lottery. Thugs will always try to protect their rackets and hate competition eh?

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:

Because It's stolen? Why are the police and figherfighter's exempt? The are "Public secter Unions"?

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Those two unions supported Walker in the Elections

Rob Roy said:

Your first example relies on the same logic as saying if she hadn't worn that low cut blouse nobody would have raped her.

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not unless you have a persecution complex and run a cult.

rape is never the fault of the victim.

there are not even any "victims" of property tax.

grow the fuck up.

Rob Roy said:

Your second line would be near valid if the place a person could "voluntarily" move to provided a sancuary from the imposition of force.
If there is no way to "not pay" something, the use of voluntary is incorrect.

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there are many unincorporated areas around here that have no school districts.

if you object so strongly to your property taxes going to schools, there is your option.

besides, it is clear to me by now that you have no idea what words mean.

especially 'extortion'.

Rob Roy said:

I have no problem with those that like public schools paying for it. My problem lies with those that don't like public schools being made to pay for them under the threat of force, which you always seem to conveniently forget or gloss over.

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nope, not forgetting shit.

you are the one who forgets that you may abscond any time you want.

how many times must i remind you: if you want the benefits of society, you can not simultaneously forgo the costs.

you are typing your bullshit on a computer and disseminating it over the internet...you take advantage of the benefits of society.

and yet you cry like a baby about the fact that ANY BENEFIT COMES WITH A COST.

this applies to everything, including evolution.

Rob Roy said:

Lottery tickets? Nobody has forced me to buy them, but they would attack me if I attempted to have a private lottery. Thugs will always try to protect their rackets and hate competition eh?

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way to let that persecution complex shine.

get back to the compound now. go preach to your cult.

UncleBuck said:

not unless you have a persecution complex and run a cult.

rape is never the fault of the victim.

there are not even any "victims" of property tax.

grow the fuck up.



there are many unincorporated areas around here that have no school districts.

if you object so strongly to your property taxes going to schools, there is your option.

besides, it is clear to me by now that you have no idea what words mean.

especially 'extortion'.



nope, not forgetting shit.

you are the one who forgets that you may abscond any time you want.

how many times must i remind you: if you want the benefits of society, you can not simultaneously forgo the costs.

you are typing your bullshit on a computer and disseminating it over the internet...you take advantage of the benefits of society.

and yet you cry like a baby about the fact that ANY BENEFIT COMES WITH A COST.

this applies to everything, including evolution.



way to let that persecution complex shine.

get back to the compound now. go preach to your cult.

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Got your internet muscles flexed eh?

Rape is never the fault of the victim. Okay. We seem to agree there. Why? Is it because on some level you acknowledge that the initiation of force against a person that isn't consenting is wrong? Now take that concept and broaden it just a bit to include other forms of force applied to unconsenting persons....Feel that tingle? It's your cognitive dissonance alarm going off.