Why Should I Vote for Obama?

The French spend less than half as much on health care as we do in the US, and their outcomes are far better. How do you explain that?

They don't run their healthcare like the DMV... and as far as the VA goes, they need to run that program more like the French run theirs. Perhaps the people in charge of the VA own stock in health insurance companies and want to drive vets to become customers of their business by providing shitty care?

There was a large focus group study done a few years ago... before, people were divided roughly 50/50. They had all kinds of experts on the subject come in and talk, both opponents of single payer and supporters. After a month of this, they polled the subjects, and only one was still opposed to single payer. Over 95% support after they were educated!

I have family members with cancer and it took them a month to get an appointment. I had severe migraines that the doctors suspected could be a brain tumor, and it took me over 6 months to get an appointment. I could've died in that time frame if it had been a tumor.

Bureaucrats already decide which treatments are cost effective - haven't heard of health insurance bureaucracies, I assume?

You are left with very few choices in treatments in our current system, as these corporate bureaucrats severely limit what treatments they will pay for. Many people have DIED because they were denied coverage for a treatment that's been proven to work when the bureaucrats declared it "experimental."

27,000 people die a year in the US because of lack of health coverage. I have seen it myself. Our system is completely and totally broken.

Here's the WHO's ranking of the quality of health care in the world... this is back from 1997, the US has gone significantly downhill since then.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

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The US is #1 in medical costs.

• The French spend less than half as much on health care as we do in the US, and their outcomes are far better. How do you explain that?​

  
  
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Different methods of reporting, different procedures, different system altogether.

You cannot realistically compare 2 systems that are so different.

Here is the rub. If you have universal healthcare you have slavery. From the minute you are eligable to work you owe the state and have to pay the state.

Otherwise you are enslaving one class to pay for the benefits of another class.

I dont wish to give up my personal liberty about my body and medical choices for some vauge promise about quality care provided through the government at lower cost.


EVERYONE WANTS BETTER HEALTHCARE AT LOWER COST!!!

We fucking get that part.

What I dont get is that you actually believe that your government is going to provide you lower health care for 1-3 trillion more than you are paying now... (is that new math???)

Slavery? Are you trying to make yourself sound ridiculous?

If doctors in France are "enslaved" then doctors here are also "enslaved" by the insurance companies. You don't seem to get that the choice is not bureaucracy or no bureaucracy, but rather bureaucracy that answers to us, or bureaucracy that answers to wealthy investors.

You can't just dismiss the comparison with France by saying "they're different." You aren't making a lick of sense right now. Just a minute ago you were comparing single payer to private insurance, saying single payer was horrible - wait lists, etc, a lot of lies - and now when the evidence shows that single payer is better, you say they can't be compared? Right...

I don't know what you're trying to say with those last few words, maybe you think I support ObamaCare? I don't, it's actually an insurance company bailout in disguise.

purklize said:

Slavery? Are you trying to make yourself sound ridiculous?

If doctors in France are "enslaved" then doctors here are also "enslaved" by the insurance companies. You don't seem to get that the choice is not bureaucracy or no bureaucracy, but rather bureaucracy that answers to us, or bureaucracy that answers to wealthy investors.

You can't just dismiss the comparison with France by saying "they're different." You aren't making a lick of sense right now. Just a minute ago you were comparing single payer to private insurance, saying single payer was horrible - wait lists, etc, a lot of lies - and now when the evidence shows that single payer is better, you say they can't be compared? Right...

I don't know what you're trying to say with those last few words, maybe you think I support ObamaCare? I don't, it's actually an insurance company bailout in disguise.

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Ok, in france there are certain medical procedures that are approved and done routinely. These are different in America.

Did your comparative poll take into account wait times? Did it match up exact cases? Did it account for how much medical procedures are subsidized by the government.

Are we talking about comparative technology? Will a patient get an MRI for everything in America and France? (no)

You cannot compare the two systems with one number.... It is simply not possible. Can you not understand that argument?

And BTW, I dont want to be a statistic in some government survey. I would like to pay for my own medical care, choose my own doctor, and know that he is picking the procedures and tests needed for my care and not proscribed by the government.

I would also like to choose not to pay for medical care and not be subject to penalties or imprisonment. That is not freedom it is slavery. And under Obamacare that is what you face, a fine by the IRS and the IRS can do just about anything they want to you.

Healthcare is not a right. It will not be a right until the constitution is changed.

They look at statistics for health problems. They are easily compared.

In the US, if you have a health problem, you are much more likely to end up dead here than in France. That's what the numbers say.

If you would like to opt out of single payer healthcare, that is your choice. You are more than welcome to shrug the weight of the world and move to your own private island, where there will be no doctors to enslave you.

Illegal Smile said:

I dunno. I decided to give Obama a chance. He's had his turn at bat. Why shouldn't I give Romney a chance? He has a much better resume. Because he is too rich? Some of our best presidents have been rich. And by the way, Obama has been pretty much a pampered debutante his whole life, too.

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rommney is another puppet, we need someone who will stand up to big government and kick it in the balls. my vote will most certainly goto ron paul

Where do VIPs from all over the world go when they need serious medical treatment?

To the US - end of story.

buttrick said:

rommney is another puppet, we need someone who will stand up to big government and kick it in the balls. my vote will most certainly goto ron paul

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You won't get a chance to vote for Ron Paul unless you live in a state with an early primary. And he doesn't have a prayer of winning any of those. So what's the point, seriously?

Entitlements are what's killing this country, 50% don't pay Fed taxes, over 50% of Maine is on welfare, 20% of those using welfare or Medicare are illegals. All driving of the cost or EVERYTHING! Health care would not need a fix or be so expensive if 60% of those using it actually paid their bills. Just think of it this way, when your get that MRI bill, 2 other people got a free one and your covering their bill!

Bring the troops home, put them on the borders locking it down, offer amnesty to all non violent illegals, put caps on these life long welfare families and drop the IRS code in favor of a national sales tax EVERYONE gets to pay!

I would even vote for Nancy Pelosi for President if she ended ENTITLEMENTS!

After watching new hamshires debate, i dont know how anybody can support any of the clowns on there other then ron paul.

Ron paul was the solid contender straight answers, getting ignored on major issue questions, interrupted by the children on stage next to him and being HONEST!

And no one would give a straight answer other then RP. Everyone would divert trying to reject all the right points RP would make. Pathetic attempt by those so called "politicians" if you ask me. Hopefully people wont be so blind

olylifter420 said:

After watching new hamshires debate, i dont know how anybody can support any of the clowns on there other then ron paul.

Ron paul was the solid contender straight answers, getting ignored on major issue questions, interrupted by the children on stage next to him and being HONEST!

And no one would give a straight answer other then RP. Everyone would divert trying to reject all the right points RP would make. Pathetic attempt by those so called "politicians" if you ask me. Hopefully people wont be so blind

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Ron Paul got my vote... But I hold residence in a COCK-ASS state, so my vote meant shit other then choosing who got to go to the state level convention! Ob-Romney and Sanatarium can suck my #@$%

Win or lose RON PAUL is my write in for Nov 2012... Neither R nor D has my back in getting the .gov off my back, out of my wallet and out of my business!

purklize said:

27,000 people die a year in the US because of lack of health coverage.

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No they do not!! You will NEVER see a coroner's report that lists cause of death as "Didn't have insurance" No one ever dies from lack of insurance EVER!!! They die from disease, accidents, suicide, combat etc, but not from lack of insurance.

Illegal Smile said:

Where do VIPs from all over the world go when they need serious medical treatment?

To the US - end of story.

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no question: we have the best health care in the world if you have a lot of money.

otherwise, we are the worst of any wealthy nation. the swiss and english and germans and japanese and taiwanese all laugh at the fact that so many of our citizens lose their home or suffer without the care they need simply because they can not afford it. the thought of losing your home because your get sick is unfathomable in any other wealthy nation.

NoDrama said:

No one ever dies from lack of insurance EVER!!! They die from disease, accidents, suicide, combat etc, but not from lack of insurance.

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facts are facts, a lot of otherwise preventable or treatable illnesses would get treated early on (before it is too late) if people had the option of getting treatment without having to put themselves so far into debt.

otherwise, it tends to get put off to the point where a stitch in time can no longer save nine.

UncleBuck said:

facts are facts, a lot of otherwise preventable or treatable illnesses would get treated early on (before it is too late) if people had the option of getting treatment without having to put themselves so far into debt.

otherwise, it tends to get put off to the point where a stitch in time can no longer save nine.

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well if facts are facts then here is a fact that might make your argument look somewhat like less of an argument.
Fact is that about 2 million US people die each year WHO HAVE INSURANCE!!!!!!

i.e. 40 times more people die each year who have insurance than those who do not.

These are facts.

One time i didn't have insurance, got a infection, didn't waste any time, went to the hospital and got a $10,000 bill which i have yet to completely pay off since the terms were 20 years at .1% interest.

27,000 people represents .001% of the population.

NoDrama said:

well if facts are facts then here is a fact that might make your argument look somewhat like less of an argument.
Fact is that about 2 million US people die each year WHO HAVE INSURANCE!!!!!!

i.e. 40 times more people die each year who have insurance than those who do not.

These are facts.

One time i didn't have insurance, got a infection, didn't waste any time, went to the hospital and got a $10,000 bill which i have yet to completely pay off since the terms were 20 years at .1% interest.

27,000 people represents .001% of the population.

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i had the same thing happen this summer and went and got treatment at a local clinic. got a shot and antiobiotics for a whopping $27 or so.

ceteris parabis, who do you think is more likely to pass from an otherwise treatable/preventable malady? the person with insurance, or the person without?

UncleBuck said:

i had the same thing happen this summer and went and got treatment at a local clinic. got a shot and antiobiotics for a whopping $27 or so.

ceteris parabis, who do you think is more likely to pass from an otherwise treatable/preventable malady? the person with insurance, or the person without?

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Neither of those things matters, what matters is who gets the preventable treatment first. Just because someone does not have insurance does not mean that they are automatically going to wait and see if they can beat the disease by themselves. SOME people don't have insurance because they can afford any healthcare they want out of pocket. Of those 27,000 who die each year and don't have insurance how many died from a preventable cause? How many received care, but died anyway? How many died from accidental death? How many were killed by someone else?

Making tobacco illegal could save up to 700,000 people each year, and it is 100% preventable without any help from a doctor or hospital no visits to a clinic are required. Do I think Tobacco should be illegal? No way!

Gotta have choices, some people CHOOSE not to have insurance, have you factored them in?

A statistically insignificant number comes to mind when we talk about the number of people who truly would still be alive had they had insurance.

so why are people going to vote for

1. sanatorium

2. romney schnomney

3. obummer

I am registered as an independent and as such I do not believe I get to participate in a primary.