Who Was Jesus? What Did He Teach? Letting His Words Do The Talking!

Tym said:
You haven't.. He's just unable to defend himself logically, so he's trying to keep you on the defensive..
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Really?? I think I addressed that subject with great clarity. What was wrong with my logic? Or are you just making pointless claim again.
 
This will be my last post on this topic.

I said earlier I'm glad that we can at least agree on marijuana, how growing it can be fun to grow, and that still holds true.

But before I go just let me leave saying that I am not trying to silence you or take away any freedom of speech. I just believe that this is not the appropriate place to be having this conversation. Just like it would be in appropriate to for me to talk about my sex life or financial status. All I ask is that in the future you keep your religious opinions to yourself while posting on a pot site. If you feel the need to talk about it get in touch with a group, website, chat room or church that would be more suitable for the topic.

Look forward to seeing how your plants do and best of luck
 
crackerboy said:
Really?? I think I addressed that subject with great clarity. What was wrong with my logic? Or are you just making pointless claim again.
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Did you even read what he said?

He said, and I quote "Dude, it's the Catholics, the largest denomination of Xtians worldwide. The last pope went on record advising the people of Africa that condoms actually spread AIDS and not to bother with them. In the same speech he also said not to worry about kids "because God will provide for all he creates." http://www.condoms4life.org/facts/lesserEvil.htm"

All he did was repeat what the pope said. Where did refute what the pope said?

Oh and abstinence is better than condoms? So is castration.. The only problem is, castration is more effective. According to the official doctrine, it's possible to get inseminated and have a child without ever having sex.. That's not %100 effective, Castration is..
But all that is besides the fact, abstinence only education doesn't work. Studies and statistics show that the rate of sexual transmitted infections and pregnancy are unaffected by abstinence only education.
Here is a link to a meta study that has been published in a peer reviewed journal.

http://www.siecus.org/_data/global/images/research_says.pdf

This study was conducted by Mathematica Policy Research Inc. on behalf of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
 
66FreeSpirit said:
This will be my last post on this topic.

I said earlier I'm glad that we can at least agree on marijuana, how growing it can be fun to grow, and that still holds true.

But before I go just let me leave saying that I am not trying to silence you or take away any freedom of speech. I just believe that this is not the appropriate place to be having this conversation. Just like it would be in appropriate to for me to talk about my sex life or financial status. All I ask is that in the future you keep your religious opinions to yourself while posting on a pot site. If you feel the need to talk about it get in touch with a group, website, chat room or church that would be more suitable for the topic.

Look forward to seeing how your plants do and best of luck
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Not to take away your right to your opinion, but you're in a forum section called.

This is the place to be talking about it. If you don't like it, don't read it.
I know it looks like a heated argument, but this is how rational people debate. None of us hate anyone here, we just passionately express our opinions and lay out the facts as they stand.
We can all agree on a lot of things.. More than just the love of pot.
We can all agree that we have the right to say and think whatever we want.

So thanks for adding to the conversation, but don't think it's going to stop. This is what we love to do :)
You may come to understand if you ever take a stance on an issue you think is worth debating.
Best of luck to you too man!
 
crackerboy said:
You are trying to promote the idea that the Catholics don't want to prevent HIV. Thats what 66freespirit was trying to imply and you where attempting to back up his claim by posting that article. You know what you where doing. Don't play coy.
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Absolutely not! Stop putting words into my mouth. It is so annoying when you people cannot take what is said at face value. Maybe it says something about you. Do you purposely try to be vague, to imply something or do you come out and try to say it? I have been nothing but straightforward with you through all of this. This isn't about intentions, this is about ignoring science because the bible is the authority on this issue. I think EVERYONE wants to prevent HIV spread. I think the Pope is pulling another Galileo and ignoring the fact that condoms can prevent HIV but feeling too strongly about his interpretation of scripture and has a conflict. It is immoral to teach condoms are bad to a population that is dying in large numbers. You can teach abstinence too, teach it as the primary, but don't withhold something that could save a life. The thing is, you appear to agree with me on this, but not everyone does. Some people are blindly following the Pope, and you know that's true. I would say that if you are a Catholic missionary, the probability is even higher that you will obey the Vatican because to the Catholics, they are the authority on this. I never once said or implied that anyone wants to prevent the spread of HIV.
 
mindphuk said:
Absolutely not! Stop putting words into my mouth. It is so annoying when you people cannot take what is said at face value. Maybe it says something about you. Do you purposely try to be vague, to imply something or do you come out and try to say it? I have been nothing but straightforward with you through all of this. This isn't about intentions, this is about ignoring science because the bible is the authority on this issue. I think EVERYONE wants to prevent HIV spread. I think the Pope is pulling another Galileo and ignoring the fact that condoms can prevent HIV but feeling too strongly about his interpretation of scripture and has a conflict. It is immoral to teach condoms are bad to a population that is dying in large numbers. You can teach abstinence too, teach it as the primary, but don't withhold something that could save a life. The thing is, you appear to agree with me on this, but not everyone does. Some people are blindly following the Pope, and you know that's true. I would say that if you are a Catholic missionary, the probability is even higher that you will obey the Vatican because to the Catholics, they are the authority on this. I never once said or implied that anyone wants to prevent the spread of HIV.
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Ok then I apologize. But I think trying to down play what these missionaries are doing over there is dangerous. These people have given up their lives to help them. They are doing great things for the people of Africa. They are actively building infrastructure and providing medicine and education to the people. For any one to try and attack them and what they are doing over there is despicable. Not saying that is what you are doing, but you seemed to support the argument that he was trying to make. There is no doubt that the support the Catholic church provides greatly out ways this one stance.
 
crackerboy said:
Ok then I apologize. But I think trying to down play what these missionaries are doing over there is dangerous. These people have given up their lives to help them. They are doing great things for the people of Africa. They are actively building infrastructure and providing medicine and education to the people. For any one to try and attack them and what they are doing over there is despicable. Not saying that is what you are doing, but you seemed to support the argument that he was trying to make. There is no doubt that the support the Catholic church provides greatly out ways this one stance.
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Nobody doubts that some good is being done by these missionaries. But any good they do can be done without them and to a greater extent if the pope just sent money, food, and medicine..
Let us not forget that the main reason they are there to begin with is to spread the word of god. Helping people is secondary. Tremendous money and provisions are wasted by sending people there to preach the word of a fiction novel.. Far more good could be done without missionaries.. Africa has enough people, they need money, supplies and medicine. But what good they do, is greatly appreciated no matter how inefficient the use of resources are..
 
Tym said:
Nobody doubts that some good is being done by these missionaries. But any good they do can be done without them and to a greater extent if the pope just sent money, food, and medicine..
Let us not forget that the main reason they are there to begin with is to spread the word of god. Helping people is secondary. Tremendous money and provisions are wasted by sending people there to preach the word of a fiction novel.. Far more good could be done without missionaries.. Africa has enough people, they need money, supplies and medicine. But what good they do, is greatly appreciated no matter how inefficient the use of resources are..
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I think that maybe you should try and meet some of these people. I think that you will see where their hearts truly are. Sending money and medicine is pointless if they don't ever get it. All the money in the world does not beat having people on the ground to properly distribute it. Its not all about converting people. It's about loving your neighbor. Most of these people have dedicated their lives to helping others. They expect no compensation and hardly ever receive any credit for anything they do. There is no better way to spend the money in my opinion. Whether you want to believe it or not, Jesus changes peoples lives for the better. I have seen it first hand over and over again.
 
crackerboy said:
I think that maybe you should try and meet some of these people. I think that you will see where their hearts truly are. Sending money and medicine is pointless if they don't ever get it. All the money in the world does not beat having people on the ground to properly distribute it. Its not all about converting people. It's about loving your neighbor. Most of these people have dedicated their lives to helping others. They expect no compensation and hardly ever receive any credit for anything they do. There is no better way to spend the money in my opinion. Whether you want to believe it or not, Jesus changes peoples lives for the better. I have seen it first hand over and over again.
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I'm sure the people's intentions are pure. Sending money, supplies and medicine is never pointless. Of course you would need people to distribute it. But it could be done internally. You don't need to send thousands of people to simply distribute supplies. I know these people have the greatest of intentions, and I commend them for it. But it can be done more efficiently, with less overhead and more end products to the people who need it most. And above all, it can all be done without spamming your god.. There are better ways to spend money, like doctors without borders, and other secular charities that don't try to jam a holy book in your face and tell you a story about how you deserve to die, how you were born flawed some how and that if you don't believe what I'm telling you, there is a fate worse than death waiting for you.

Jesus doesn't change anything, people who tell the story change things. These are people, interacting with people. If Jesus existed, he wouldn't need people to do it for him. If Jesus existed, he would have a physical effect that could be confirmed, measured and reproduced. The fact that Jesus can't be shown to exist, shows us rational people that there is no valid reason to believe he exists.

I would love to be proven wrong.
 
crackerboy said:
I think that maybe you should try and meet some of these people. I think that you will see where their hearts truly are. Sending money and medicine is pointless if they don't ever get it. All the money in the world does not beat having people on the ground to properly distribute it. Its not all about converting people. It's about loving your neighbor. Most of these people have dedicated their lives to helping others. They expect no compensation and hardly ever receive any credit for anything they do. There is no better way to spend the money in my opinion. Whether you want to believe it or not, Jesus changes peoples lives for the better. I have seen it first hand over and over again.
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You can be helpful to people without making it contingent on them learning the Gospel.

I found a missionary story inspiring. Here it is -- http://freethinker.co.uk/2008/11/08/how-an-amazonian-tribe-turned-a-missionary-into-an-atheist/
 
crackerboy said:
If it is public record, then can you post a link or something cause I'm calling bullshit on this one. I have read extensively on this subject and have never come across this. State your source.
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as far as im aware all roman records are kept under lock and key at vatican city and if you wish to view them you must apply to your local catholic archbishop so he can contact the vatican and arrange viewing of records, they may also be online as well somewhere but unfortunately not speaking italian trawling thru websites to find it would be a tad difficult
 
bunnyface said:
so your saying im ignorant ??
hell im not religous in the slightest but,,,,,,you have faith in sicence and are 'ignorant' of reilgon.yes, but so ignorant that its become intorlance.
I said im not here to agrue,but faith is still different ,in genral ignaorant people have faith in religion, and ignorant people have faith in science, but BOTH are ignorant of the other feelings,,
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You are a bonafide retard. Seriously fucking retarded man. I already posted definition directly from the dictionary. I will once again since you are either illiterate or too stupid to comprehend on the first time around.

Faith: 1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith?&qsrc=

That being said my "faith" in science is strong (because of so much evidence) but is not unshakable. I will gladly revise my view of the world ANYTIME evidence presents itself.
 
crackerboy said:
There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin. Even if the Buddhist thing is true so what. He was well educated and wise. Just the simple fact that God led the wise men with a star to find Jesus is a miracle in its self. But I don't really buy this story of the Buddhist. First of all the three wise men came from Persia. As for Jesus not being dead on the cross, the soldiers pierced him with a spear just to make sure he was dead. This is all just another bs story used to confuse the masses.
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well thats how the buddist used to choose a figure head,,so thats a fact. There is no evidence to suggest they came from persia,, whats on the otherside of persia??back then as it where,,so they came accross persia. and yeah they stabbed him but he didnt die, look at how the romans used to crusify loads of people,, it would take days to die up there, and when your stabbed(in genral) you pass out from blood lose, then die. well what did they take into the tomb? those herbs are for healing.....
and to be honest explain the tombs in nepal, Hey he may not of been a buddist , or jew or christian, just some one trying to do some good,,
 
u clearly have small cock synidrome cognito, why do you have to be so rude???

well thats proof right there that you are just as ignorant as the f'in bible bashers.
die in pain.
 
bunnyface said:
u clearly have small cock synidrome cognito, why do you have to be so rude???

well thats proof right there that you are just as ignorant as the f'in bible bashers.
die in pain.
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I have an average sized cock thank you. I am "so rude" because you called me ignorant and intolerant. I'm not really that offended given the fact that you clearly don't even understand the definition of MOST of the words you are throwing around. Either that or you are purposely being disingenuous.
 
Its funny when people say that religion is about controlling you.

YES! its called discipline, foo.
For instance. I am a Christian. I want you to be nice. If I see you lacking niceness I may attempt to control you, depending on the degree of your wrongdoing.
I will try to control you by saying : HEY! STOP FUCKING UP! Directly to you.
Another part of the religion is shame at the natural human condition because its not easy to maintain balance. Only Jesus was any good.
So even though I encourage you to stop fucking up, I am also very forgiving. because i'm probably worse than you if i'm older than you.

So yes. its all about control. Religion, Values, Discipline.

It is also true that there have been evil organizations of people in the past within the Christian Religion. And yes, they contaminated the original scriptures. To anyone concerned the information is available. Everyone else either disregards, or protests. If I recall correctly 95% of all organizations composed of humans do something really horrible eventually. especially if the group spans a century or two across a thousand or million or so people. Not only is it just like a random act either. its a carefully organized effort because the religion itself is organized with the wiseguys at the top. same as it ever was.

Those people should have nothing to do with an individual's decisions. Sometimes people are born into bad environments.
 
Basshead said:
Its funny when people say that religion is about controlling you.

YES! its called discipline, foo.
For instance. I am a Christian. I want you to be nice. If I see you lacking niceness I may attempt to control you, depending on the degree of your wrongdoing.
I will try to control you by saying : HEY! STOP FUCKING UP! Directly to you.
Another part of the religion is shame at the natural human condition because its not easy to maintain balance. Only Jesus was any good.
So even though I encourage you to stop fucking up, I am also very forgiving. because i'm probably worse than you if i'm older than you.

So yes. its all about control. Religion, Values, Discipline.

It is also true that there have been evil organizations of people in the past within the Christian Religion. And yes, they contaminated the original scriptures. To anyone concerned the information is available. Everyone else either disregards, or protests. If I recall correctly 95% of all organizations composed of humans do something really horrible eventually. especially if the group spans a century or two across a thousand or million or so people. Not only is it just like a random act either. its a carefully organized effort because the religion itself is organized with the wiseguys at the top. same as it ever was.

Those people should have nothing to do with an individual's decisions. Sometimes people are born into bad environments.
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I think the control aspects of religion are obvious, I don't think most rational people will contest it.
It's the things religion trys to make you do that I have a problem with. And the things it does to other people.
 
Basshead said:
Its funny when people say that religion is about controlling you.

YES! its called discipline, foo.
For instance. I am a Christian. I want you to be nice. If I see you lacking niceness I may attempt to control you, depending on the degree of your wrongdoing.
I will try to control you by saying : HEY! STOP FUCKING UP! Directly to you.
Another part of the religion is shame at the natural human condition because its not easy to maintain balance. Only Jesus was any good.
So even though I encourage you to stop fucking up, I am also very forgiving. because i'm probably worse than you if i'm older than you.

So yes. its all about control. Religion, Values, Discipline.

It is also true that there have been evil organizations of people in the past within the Christian Religion. And yes, they contaminated the original scriptures. To anyone concerned the information is available. Everyone else either disregards, or protests. If I recall correctly 95% of all organizations composed of humans do something really horrible eventually. especially if the group spans a century or two across a thousand or million or so people. Not only is it just like a random act either. its a carefully organized effort because the religion itself is organized with the wiseguys at the top. same as it ever was.

Those people should have nothing to do with an individual's decisions. Sometimes people are born into bad environments.
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You realize that people choose to "stop fucking up" if you ask them to, you did nothing other than give them the option, you didn't control them.

"Religion teaches people to be satisfied with trivial supernatural non-explanations, and blinds them to the wonderful real explanations that we have in our grasp, it teaches them to rely on authority, revelation, and faith instead of always insisting on evidence."

it's as simple as that... the quote is from Richard Dawkins' TED talk
 
upthearsenal said:
You realize that people choose to "stop fucking up" if you ask them to, you did nothing other than give them the option, you didn't control them.

"Religion teaches people to be satisfied with trivial supernatural non-explanations, and blinds them to the wonder real explanations that we have in our grasp, it teaches them to rely on authority, revelation, and faith instead of always insisting on evidence."

it's as simple as that... the quote is from Richard Dawkins' TED talk
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Yes, then it teaches them to infect everyone they know including children with the same virus..
 
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