White House Response to The New York Times Editorial Board's Call for Federal Marijuana Legalization

SmokeyDan said:

For that to debunk me you'd have to believe that no one ever failed a drug test while on probation for weed, knowing it would or could send them back to jail or prison.

I know plenty of people who have kept smoking weed despite quite good incentives not to do so, jail included.

They expressed the intent to do so. Yet they did not.

Now, I'll concede it's quite a bit easier for us to lay down the bong than it is for a crack whore to put down the crack rock.

It's a difference of degree. Weed is about as addictive as cigarettes, maybe caffine, significantly less so than alcohol.

I'll give you the other schedule 1 drugs are order of magnitudes more addictive. But it's only a difference of magnitude.

Weed is indeed addictive.

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It would be more accurate if you had said weed CAN be addictive to some, but not so much to others.

If you are arguing that a person should not be able to chose what they put into their body based on some ridiculous "controlled drug" schedule, you are arguing the same argument as those that are addicted to power over others....arbitrary power over others is the strongest and most lethal addiction.

Rob Roy said:

It would be more accurate if you had said weed CAN be addictive to some, but not so much to others.

If you are arguing that a person should not be able to chose what they put into their body based on some ridiculous "controlled drug" schedule, you are arguing the same argument as those that are addicted to power over others....arbitrary power over others is the strongest and most lethal addiction.

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You're right. Not everyone has the same addiction potential.

However, I don't think that is important. It isn't the substance that changes, it's the person. I said many times weed is weak in comparison to meth with respect to addiction.

You would have just worded it differently is all.

My point is that for weed to be legal I think it is important that we be honest about it, and promote responsibility in its use.

In my brief time on this forum it seems most of the people here believe there are ZERO consequences from its use and that one should be able to use all they want while driving in public.

Much less progress can be made with those positions in getting it legalized.

It is fair to say it's less addicting than other legal stuff, cigarettes and alcohol. And that it is less impairment to driving than alcohol.

SmokeyDan said:

Most marijuana enthusiasts often confuse addiction with physical dependency.

The physical dependency properties of marijuana are small and negligible.

But marijuana can certainly be addictive.

I would call addiction inability to stop despite severe consequences for failing to do so.

Exhibit A: Ricky Williams, running back for University of Texas then the Miami Dolphins.

He threw away a multi million per year career to smoke weed.

That is the decision of an addict.

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IMO, smoking weed is much more enjoyable than getting repeatedly crushed by multiple 300lb+ men. Especially if you're a running back with no blocking!

Reasobevangelist, it's rare to find a 300 pound linebacker or safety.


Anyway, that may he true, but he was very well compensated for running.

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT said:

"hey all you marijuana smokers your iq is lower than ours and your gonna crash your cars and then you aren't gonna generate any tax money" - barack obama

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How much "tax money" is being generated by the imprisoned and the dead-due-to-cop-murder?

SmokeyDan said:

Addiction has nothing to do with physical withdrawal.

Addiction is entirely psychological.

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Wrong

Dr Kynes said:

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dont you feel good that The Brahmin In Cheif is using your tax dollars to fund this bullshit and to pay his lying, sack of shit mouthpieces to repeat his absurd beliefs?

Choomboy has decided that "Drugs are bad, MMM'kay!" and is using our own money to push his propaganda down our throats.

apparently when Barry Seotoro smokes weed, thats OK, cuz he is so strong willed and wise, he can handle it, but the rest of us are too weak to restrain ourselves.

he really does think he is better than the rest of us.

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HAH! What the fuck is this shit!!

Are people really too stupid to not realize this is blatant reality-denying propaganda?

edit: let's pretend that was a rhetorical question...

SmokeyDan said:

Read this. It might help clear it up for you.

I like how you claim to have great knowledge on something yet it is revealed your doctoral degree is in shelve stocking from Walton Community College.

"Is there a difference between physical dependence and addiction?

Yes. Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal. The latter reflect physical dependence in which the body adapts to the drug, requiring more of it to achieve a certain effect (tolerance) and eliciting drug-specific physical or mental symptoms if drug use is abruptly ceased (withdrawal). Physical dependence can happen with the chronic use of many drugs—including many prescription drugs, even if taken as instructed. Thus, physical dependence in and of itself does not constitute addiction, but it often accompanies addiction. This distinction can be dificult to discern, particularly with prescribed pain medications, for which the need for increasing dosages can represent tolerance or a worsening underlying problem, as opposed to the beginning of abuse or addiction."

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-addiction-treatment-research-based-guide-third-edition/frequently-asked-questions/there-difference-between-physical-dependence

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That is a word for word copy of the Wikipedia entry. Wonder which is plagiarizing

bird mcbride said:

When I was sick with gut cancer I experienced a short term memory problem. Now that I have this under control my memory is flawless. Forgetfulness cannot/should not be assotiated with mj use.

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Cannabis has been clinically proven to cause short term memory loss. My own experience verifies this. Your memory seems flawless because you don't remember what you have forgotten.

...since when is it anyone's business other than my own, whether or not i "form a habit" out of something i enjoy, which is relatively harmless to me, completely harmless to others, naturally occurring, therapeutically active and pleasant?

Self-determinism, Responsible Discretion, Consideration of potential impacts of my actions upon others... this is all that is required to minimize or eliminate any extremely low-risk of anything called "danger" to anyone.

I am fully capable of safely using a plant to enhance my quality of life, which helps combat the perpetual exposure to conditions beyond my control and not of my choosing.

There is no justifiable grounds for authorizing violence or imprisonment against me or anyone else, for this. The "captured agencies" are enemies of the state, infidel infiltrator power usurpers, who are deliberately conspiring and acting in direct violation of our constitutionally protected rights. These enemies of the state have and continue to perpetrate treasonous and injurious actions to innocent people. These captured agencies must be cleansed and redesigned to prevent future corruption and exploitation. They are not America. We are.

Red1966 said:

That is a word for word copy of the Wikipedia entry. Wonder which is plagiarizing

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Red, although I respect your opinion, I'm not going to have this debate again.. I provided evidence from an addiction website that supports what I said and you cant sweep that aside by just blurting out wrong. It is likely this is the place Wikipedia got its definition from.

reasonevangelist said:

How much "tax money" is being generated by the imprisoned and the dead-due-to-cop-murder?

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a fuck ton they are getting what 50000 a year per inmate in revenue prisons are for profit so all that money isn't going into a fund to take care of prisoners. plus the govt is gonna take everything you bought and you're most likely not going to prison unless you bought something nice.

How much $$$ do you think the "addiction recovery" market is worth? And are you naive enough to think there is no lying for $$$?

And what about the historical record? You can't just suddenly claim weed is addictive when the record is quite clear it is not.

You can re-define addiction to be the pleasure of "why not." But, that is just Orwellian Double-Think, you fall for.

What is your own experience? Have you ever been chemically dependent?

I am chemically dependent on life saving drugs right now. I am addicted to that, by any measure of the word. I will experience ever increasing trauma if I don't take those meds. And the trauma is pure withdrawal. No not opiates. More powerful.

But, every year I go to FL for a week to visit my old Dad, I just don't smoke weed. I get stoned when I get back. I vap all day, everyday at work, and at play. I ride my motorcycle for weeks of 11 hours in the saddle per day, stoned to the bone.

Then I can stop. Nothing addictive about weed. It is a cure for many things, so anyone with sense, knows that is it better to be stoned, in many, but not all, cases. That is no more addictive than downhill skiing. I would always rather be skiing or on my bike.

Getting high is good for us, and is not addiction.

But, I will go to a funeral today, not stoned. It will highly emotional due to a sudden death. Not something to mix with ganja for me.

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT said:

a fuck ton they are getting what 50000 a year per inmate in revenue prisons are for profit so all that money isn't going into a fund to take care of prisoners. plus the govt is gonna take everything you bought and you're most likely not going to prison unless you bought something nice.

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yes, but where does that revenue actually come from? And how much does it cost to generate that "~$50000 per prisoner?"

Wouldn't it make more sense to have more people working to pay more taxes, and to spend far less on violating and imprisoning them? What is the cost per year to employ judges and administrative personnel and field armed enforcers? Check out the ticker on the LEAP site. How does that expenditure compare to the amount of "tax revenue" and other money-moving strategies designed to fund the profits of the prison owners and all the participants in the enforcement system?

I tend to think it works a lot like a bank: they amass other people's wealth and then profit by trading it and moving it around and investing it in all the businesses they can manipulate into being successful, by purchasing creation of various laws and regulations.

SmokeyDan said:

Red, although I respect your opinion, I'm not going to have this debate again.. I provided evidence from an addiction website that supports what I said and you cant sweep that aside by just blurting out wrong. It is likely this is the place Wikipedia got its definition from.

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How can you insist physical dependance is not a component of addiction?

Anyone for peanuts

SmokeyDan said:

Most marijuana enthusiasts often confuse addiction with physical dependency.

The physical dependency properties of marijuana are small and negligible.

But marijuana can certainly be addictive.

I would call addiction inability to stop despite severe consequences for failing to do so.

Exhibit A: Ricky Williams, running back for University of Texas then the Miami Dolphins.

He threw away a multi million per year career to smoke weed.

That is the decision of an addict.

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One might also argue that Ricky Williams gave up the NFL $$$ and its drug restrictions in order to be himself; to be who he really is. And many people would applaud that.

No person has a physical dependance with weed. People can live without it. There truly aren't any withdrawl symtoms.
If anything weed will stop a person from making any rash decisions.

SmokeyDan said:

In my brief time on this forum it seems most of the people here believe there are ZERO consequences from its use and that one should be able to use all they want while driving in public.

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Because none of them have ever had an accident while high? It's just personal bias. I for one consider myself a safe driver, haven't had an accident in over 40 years now, a detectable amount of THC would have been found at any time in those 40 years.

Ricky Williams fought his ejection from the NFL, and later when (I presume he started to run out of money) he cleaned up in an effort to come back.

I'm also a big fan of college football. Many student athletes have given up scholarships and many had a viable future in the NFL, and all because they couldn't stop smoking pot.

I'm making no judgment on the good or bad side of this. But they know that smoking pot will cost them their place on the team and jeopardize their future income potential. These are football players. They want to play. They also want to smoke pot. Under current rules and law they cannot do both.

Does it sound rational or irrational that so many young athletes give up scholarship opportunities and possible professional careers to smoke weed?

That is highly irrational. And i suspect it's more of a compulsion to smoke than a rational decision to pass up a free education for playing a game they love and a chance to get big bucks later on.