Where are my libertarians at

canndo said:
The flaw resides in a presumption that correct information cannot be manipulated. That all citizens must be well and correctly informed about all things.
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Basically, narcissism, of which one result is having no understanding of other people's lives, only your own.
 
maxamus1 said:
Its not shity people its greedy people. And I agree with your statement both can do good and bad its who's in control. But sense time has began with humans its always been those that have vs the have nots. And those that have will do or say whatever is necessary to keep that which they have.

Weather its dems or republicans or whatever, they are not part of the common people they consider them selves above us and act as such so to say that one is better is simply stupid. In all of this thread I have never once said that I don't want any government not once. I want a small government that should be controlled by the people not the other way around or you end up with what we have now. Where both parties are controlled by big business. And no one looking out for the small guys.
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Who looks out for the small guys in a libertarian scheme? Nobody will volunteer.
 
maxamus1 said:
Its not shity people its greedy people. And I agree with your statement both can do good and bad its who's in control. But sense time has began with humans its always been those that have vs the have nots. And those that have will do or say whatever is necessary to keep that which they have.

Weather its dems or republicans or whatever, they are not part of the common people they consider them selves above us and act as such so to say that one is better is simply stupid. In all of this thread I have never once said that I don't want any government not once. I want a small government that should be controlled by the people not the other way around or you end up with what we have now. Where both parties are controlled by big business. And no one looking out for the small guys.
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You have thus far, failed to define "smaller government" as though "smaller" could be a definitive goal.

I can't claim I want to weigh "less" and do anything but hope. Were I to see the scale register a pound reduction, does that satisfy my quest? Nope.
 
mooray said:
Basically, narcissism, of which one result is having no understanding of other people's lives, only your own.
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The surest way to avoid solving a problem is to blame a situation over which one has no control.

"If only people would be better parents, our country would be better off".
 
mooray said:
Basically, narcissism, of which one result is having no understanding of other people's lives, only your own.
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I think he means something different. People know, or think they know, different things to be true. Resolving that conflict cannot happen in a society in which the individual is the only arbiter of his/her values.
 
canndo said:
The surest way to avoid solving a problem is to blame a situation over which one has no control.

"If only people would be better parents, our country would be better off".
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Every single utopian scheme I’ve encountered hinges on people playing well together. They all dismiss human nature.
 
CatHedral said:
Who looks out for the small guys in a libertarian scheme? Nobody will volunteer.
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Nobody does now we cater to few and make it impossible on the rest. We give trophies for trying and ignore the bullied until they explode then put the blame on them.

Our values are so flawed its sicking.
We twist things to make it fit our narrative so we can feel better about it. Then mock those that don't agree. No one talks about the hard topics or the cringy topics. We want to Band-Aids over it and act like we did something about it yet the problem gets worse.
 
maxamus1 said:
Its not shity people its greedy people. And I agree with your statement both can do good and bad its who's in control. But sense time has began with humans its always been those that have vs the have nots. And those that have will do or say whatever is necessary to keep that which they have.

Weather its dems or republicans or whatever, they are not part of the common people they consider them selves above us and act as such so to say that one is better is simply stupid. In all of this thread I have never once said that I don't want any government not once. I want a small government that should be controlled by the people not the other way around or you end up with what we have now. Where both parties are controlled by big business. And no one looking out for the small guys.
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Greedy is a subcategory of shitty, to me, but you can't really complain about have's and have not's while simultaneously complaining about socialism and praising capitalism.

I agree about the corporatocracy, but if you're worried about evil corporations doing shitty things, then reducing government, which effectively reduces an ability to limit how shitty these shitty corporations can be, then you're pushing the wrong agenda. There's a reason why corporate types are libertarians and republicans and want smaller government and it's not just about taxation. They trick us, the little guy, into parroting their desires under the guise of something else and that's exactly what you're doing, you're complaining about shitty corporations while simultaneously pursuing their shitty interests for them. Corps are shitty and ruining the government, so we should reduce government and set corps free?? Come on.
 
I intend to sell a product that has arsenic in its formulation. If I buy or control information outlets that may report on death and injury, if I purchase medical reports on my product, if I manage news outlets regarding arsenic deaths, all legal and proper, then I can continue to sell my product.

This is the flaw in libertarianism. The control of information.

Libertarianism depends upon truth, truth that is somehow guaranteed. The only guarantee of such truth is impartial government. We may not have perfect government bodies but they are far more reliable than anything else.
 
maxamus1 said:
Nobody does now we cater to few and make it impossible on the rest. We give trophies for trying and ignore the bullied until they explode then put the blame on them.

Our values are so flawed its sicking.
We twist things to make it fit our narrative so we can feel better about it. Then mock those that don't agree. No one talks about the hard topics or the cringy topics. We want to Band-Aids over it and act like we did something about it yet the problem gets worse.
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I did not ask for complaints about your view of where we are. That is changing the subject.

Describe how the little guy is not exploited and is protected from exploitation in a world of small government and lotsa pirates. Be realistic.
 
CatHedral said:
I think he means something different. People know, or think they know, different things to be true. Resolving that conflict cannot happen in a society in which the individual is the only arbiter of his/her values.
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I think we're at least kissing cousins, what you/they are describing comes from the "MEEEEE!!!" personality.
 
CatHedral said:
Who looks out for the small guys in a libertarian scheme? Nobody will volunteer.
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Some might. Or we could make helping "the little guy" profitable. But there will always be more profit in not doing so.

Capitalism Is extremely proficient at solving problems and an utter failure at determining what problems should be solved.
 
mooray said:
I think we're at least kissing cousins, what you/they are describing comes from the "MEEEEE!!!" personality.
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The situation I describe can happen in the absence of narcissism. Simple misinformation will do, and so will inability to correctly evaluate what one sees, either through being mentally ill or not very bright.
 
canndo said:
Some might. Or we could make helping "the little guy" profitable. But there will always be more profit in not doing so.

Capitalism Is extremely proficient at solving problems and an utter failure at determining what problems should be solved.
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Okay, “who will honestly volunteer?” The glaring problem I see is criminals volunteering and then exploiting the little guy six ways from Sunday.
 
maxamus1 said:
Nobody does now we cater to few and make it impossible on the rest. We give trophies for trying and ignore the bullied until they explode then put the blame on them.

Our values are so flawed its sicking.
We twist things to make it fit our narrative so we can feel better about it. Then mock those that don't agree. No one talks about the hard topics or the cringy topics. We want to Band-Aids over it and act like we did something about it yet the problem gets worse.
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This is flawed reasoning. "The system we have is flawed therefore only "my" system will work".

But your system consists only of a nebulous reduction in an aspect of that other system.

This is no different than my claiming that "bigger government" is the answer, without establishing a metric.
 
CatHedral said:
The situation I describe can happen in the absence of narcissism. Simple misinformation will do, and so will inability to correctly evaluate what one sees, either through being mentally ill or not very bright.
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I gotcha. My narcissism detector has been a bit overworked for more than a few years now. Sometimes hard to parse with other issues.
 
We can look at motivation. If a person claims that government is "too large" or that government can never actually help anyone then why would a person who believes that ever run for office knowing that his very act serves only to enlarge that government?

This means that everyone who runs for office in a government that by his definition cannot improve thongs is either an opportunist or crazy.
 
canndo said:
We can look at motivation. If a person claims that government is "too large" or that government can never actually help anyone then why would a person who believes that ever run for office knowing that his very act serves only to enlarge that government?

This means that everyone who runs for office in a government that by his definition cannot improve thongs is either an opportunist or crazy.
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That inconsistency is the first clue that it's just a proxy complaint for something else.
 
canndo said:
We can look at motivation. If a person claims that government is "too large" or that government can never actually help anyone then why would a person who believes that ever run for office knowing that his very act serves only to enlarge that government?

This means that everyone who runs for office in a government that by his definition cannot improve thongs is either an opportunist or crazy.
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I suspect that, until the basic human shape changes, thongs are a fully developed technology.


;)
 
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