What's my best option for buying water?

mr sunshine said:

That's really dumb. You're trippin homie.

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He's not tripp'in that much!

MANY simple house plant growing sites and books say to "not" use softened water.

I might consider it BUT, It would be based on just how much the ppm of the well water is and just what makes that ppm value, before it's softened!

The 2 main things to consider are:

#1: Does it contain Iron?
a: What type of iron?

Reason - The level of iron and the type of iron determine the type of removal the system use's. In systems with no primary Ir removal stage (a Boron or Greensand tank). Ir slips through the system in not good amounts (right along with the next part).

#2: High ppm's of the well water before softening will have more cycles and recharges programed into the system to actually handle the high ppm well water! I've seen over 900 ppm well, with massive amounts of organic Ir. Don't use this!

Reason: The amounts of salts remaining in the water post system is basically unusable for plants!

Rule of thumb for rural well, salt softened water - play it safe and don't use it!

I always did my runs under the "If it's 150 or less ppm - Use it" rule.......I always had the best results following that.
I believe that once you start using ppms higher then that level in your base water. You get inefficient nutrient up-take and use, as the "contents" of that high ppm are "crowding out" or "taking over" the availability of the given nutrient.

Even no Iron, high mineral waters, can have levels of the minerals that are unacceptable to house plant use. (before softening and the cycles and recharge's become critical again if you look at it after softening).

my 2 cents on base water sourcing....

abe supercro said:

I understand that you may be concerned about accumulative unwanted salts, but usually well water has minerals that are beneficial. I use a combination of RO and well water.

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We have completely different quality standards for cannabis.

In my world, water is what you add everything TO, so your plants can absorb it easily. Unless you're lab analyzing your tap/well water monthly (because it changes). Then having your nutrients specifically formulated for your water, your chances of growing high quality is rather poor.

Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator plant and nearly everything in your water it doesn't need... will end up in your flowers. If you've run straight r/o and a mix of r/o and tap and are unable to tell the difference, you have very low sensitivity to feel, taste, smell.

Anyone wanting the highest quality end flowers, easiest to manage pH and smoothest, softest smoke, will choose R/O. The various discussions about how to use tap are pointless. Unless you're just growing some low-grade weed, then use milk for all I care. lol Making sure there aren't any newbies who want quality who accidentally end up listening to tap water hokum.

kiwipaulie said:

Try 25ppm where I am

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That's close.

I'd still filter it with an r/o machine to remove any potential pH changes and for the ultra-smooth finish.(that extra is mostly rocks, I'm sure) I don't care for over 12ppm, personally. I can taste/feel fabric softener from your "two sheets in the dryer" shirt, from 15 feet away and no breeze.

Douglas.Curtis said:

If you've run straight r/o and a mix of r/o and tap and are unable to tell the difference, you have very low sensitivity to feel, taste, smell.

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Ok

Douglas.Curtis said:

easiest to manage pH ...will chose RO water

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RO will make your water PH drift the easiest, the opposite of what you're saying. without some mineral base the water is more susceptible to fluctuations.

The nutrient industry loves ppl who only use all RO water. They strip every single thing from the water down to zero and have to pay to get it back to running levels.

D.C. seems like you have some preconceived ideas about horrible things in ground water. keep in mind, the quality of ground water is always site specific.

Douglas.Curtis said:

I can taste/feel fabric softener from your "two sheets in the dryer" shirt, from 15 feet away and no breeze.

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yeah, who can't. that synthetic scent shit is disgusting. if you think that proves you're a super smeller or something, congratulations. I just don't think it applies to the idea of using well water vs. ro, or a combination thereof.

abe supercro said:

Ok


RO will make your water PH drift the easiest, the opposite of what you're saying. without some mineral base the water is more susceptible to fluctuations.

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See? This is where the confusion is.
Super clean cannabis is not grown with a 'stable' pH. Clean cannabis is grown using a full and complete, 'healthy' pH swing. With hydro systems where the roots are constantly in the solution, this is 5.4-5.8. In systems where the roots dry out between floods/drip, this is 5.5-6.0, with the majority of the 'swing' down to 5.4 happening during the dry time.

Anyone selling you the idea cannabis prefers a steady pH is selling you noob info (or nutrients) on how to grow 'weed.' I grow high quality cannabis.

Douglas.Curtis said:

See? This is where the confusion is.
Super clean cannabis is not grown with a 'stable' pH. Clean cannabis is grown using a full and complete, 'healthy' pH swing. With hydro systems where the roots are constantly in the solution, this is 5.4-5.8. In systems where the roots dry out between floods/drip, this is 5.5-6.0, with the majority of the 'swing' down to 5.4 happening during the dry time.

Anyone selling you the idea cannabis prefers a steady pH is selling you noob info (or nutrients) on how to grow 'weed.' I grow high quality cannabis.

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Pictures or stfu!

Douglas.Curtis said:

That's close.

I'd still filter it with an r/o machine to remove any potential pH changes and for the ultra-smooth finish.(that extra is mostly rocks, I'm sure) I don't care for over 12ppm, personally. I can taste/feel fabric softener from your "two sheets in the dryer" shirt, from 15 feet away and no breeze.

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I wouldn't waste anytime with that, the water is fine, it works well with my veges too.

abe supercro said:

The nutrient industry loves ppl who only use all RO water. They strip every single thing from the water down to zero and have to pay to get it back to running levels.

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??? Some sort of misconception here Abe?
In reality. Nutrient makers would love it the other way...

By actually having water starting at 0 ppm and only adding a buffer (Ca/Mg). Then you add the actual nutrient. You have 100% control over whats in the water and the plant has only available ,,,,, what YOU gave it!

In soil use of RO. You don't even need to add the Ca/Mg! The plant has only what it needs to grow as far as nutrients given to it!

Look at hydro like this. 0 ppm water and the nutrients you supply. It's only taking up the nutrients......NO extra Ca, Copper, Iron. P, K or whatever to reduce or replace the balanced nutrition you supplied!

I never use water over 150ppm. (well averages 148 ppm)
When I did Ebb and used the 148 ppm water. The yields were smaller and they grew slower.
The RO and only nutrients grew bigger, stronger and faster!
That's only a 148 ppm difference!

Douglas.Curtis said:

We have completely different quality standards for cannabis.

In my world, water is what you add everything TO, so your plants can absorb it easily. Unless you're lab analyzing your tap/well water monthly (because it changes). Then having your nutrients specifically formulated for your water, your chances of growing high quality is rather poor.

Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator plant and nearly everything in your water it doesn't need... will end up in your flowers. If you've run straight r/o and a mix of r/o and tap and are unable to tell the difference, you have very low sensitivity to feel, taste, smell.

Anyone wanting the highest quality end flowers, easiest to manage pH and smoothest, softest smoke, will choose R/O. The various discussions about how to use tap are pointless. Unless you're just growing some low-grade weed, then use milk for all I care. lol Making sure there aren't any newbies who want quality who accidentally end up listening to tap water hokum.

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Omg I just read that post. That was the biggest load of horse shit I have read in so long.

How old are you. You sound like some kid who has read a book a little to advanced for you and lost the plot in the middle.

I suppose rain water also wont cut it for you to grow your high end. Hahaha

If @Dr. Who and @kiwipaulie want to go at it I will go grab popcorn, but I'm guessing the Doctor is pretty close to correct. I should have mentioned iron in my previous posts, that makes a ton of difference. And obviously, if your city water has uranium or arsenic or what have you in significant amounts, then you shouldn't use that either. Tap water is fine for many of us, but perhaps 450ppm is too high, I've never been in a place to worry about that. But if lawns and trees grow well using it, then you should do a little research and consider it, OP.

I simply don't have to worry about it because my water is below 140ppm year round, so I remain somewhat ignorant of it.

Douglas.Curtis said:

We have completely different quality standards for cannabis.

In my world, water is what you add everything TO, so your plants can absorb it easily. Unless you're lab analyzing your tap/well water monthly (because it changes). Then having your nutrients specifically formulated for your water, your chances of growing high quality is rather poor.

Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator plant and nearly everything in your water it doesn't need... will end up in your flowers. If you've run straight r/o and a mix of r/o and tap and are unable to tell the difference, you have very low sensitivity to feel, taste, smell.

Anyone wanting the highest quality end flowers, easiest to manage pH and smoothest, softest smoke, will choose R/O. The various discussions about how to use tap are pointless. Unless you're just growing some low-grade weed, then use milk for all I care. lol Making sure there aren't any newbies who want quality who accidentally end up listening to tap water hokum.

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Douglas.Curtis said:

That's close.

I'd still filter it with an r/o machine to remove any potential pH changes and for the ultra-smooth finish.(that extra is mostly rocks, I'm sure) I don't care for over 12ppm, personally. I can taste/feel fabric softener from your "two sheets in the dryer" shirt, from 15 feet away and no breeze.

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But you, @Douglas.Curtis, you are making your own asshole jealous with all the shit coming out of your mouth.
Also, like @mr sunshine said, pics or it didn't happen.

You wrote a book, Douglas, neato! But the assertions you're making don't match the things I've read anywhere else. It feels like you're making a lot of assumptions as to "why" things are happening, man. Maybe you're a special snowflake who discovered shit nobody else knows, but I'm a betting man, and I'm betting against it.

Michael Huntherz said:

If @Dr. Who and @kiwipaulie want to go at it I will go grab popcorn, but I'm guessing the Doctor is pretty close to correct. I should have mentioned iron in my previous posts, that makes a ton of difference. And obviously, if your city water has uranium or arsenic or what have you in significant amounts, then you shouldn't use that either. Tap water is fine for many of us, but perhaps 450ppm is too high, I've never been in a place to worry about that. But if lawns and trees grow well using it, then you should do a little research and consider it, OP.

I simply don't have to worry about it because my water is below 140ppm year round, so I remain somewhat ignorant of it.




But you, @Douglas.Curtis, you are making your own asshole jealous with all the shit coming out of your mouth.

"Unless you're lab analyzing your tap/well water monthly (because it changes). Then having your nutrients specifically formulated for your water, your chances of growing high quality is rather poor."
- No.

"Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator plant and nearly everything in your water it doesn't need... will end up in your flowers."
- pretty sure that's not what Bio-dynamic accumulation implies, and that you made that up or believed some bro-science.

"If you've run straight r/o and a mix of r/o and tap and are unable to tell the difference, you have very low sensitivity to feel, taste, smell." & "I'd still filter it with an r/o machine to remove any potential pH changes and for the ultra-smooth finish.(that extra is mostly rocks, I'm sure) I don't care for over 12ppm, personally. I can taste/feel fabric softener from your "two sheets in the dryer" shirt, from 15 feet away and no breeze."
- seriously, shut the fuck up, Superman.
​

Also, like @mr sunshine said, pics or it didn't happen.

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Haha I don't disagree with the Doc, its the other guy that was making me laugh with his claims of superior high grade, not that I'm saying mine is any better. Just the attitude is humorous .

abe supercro said:

By actually having water starting at 0 ppm and only adding a buffer (Ca/Mg). Then you add the actual nutrient. You have 100% control over whats in the water and the plant has only available ,,,,, what YOU gave it!

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Exactly, though I'm in hydro and have never needed to add a cal/mag product, not with the nutrient mix I use. Magnesium sulfate is added according to the needs of the particular strain/phenotype.

There is zero need for adding a 'buffer' agent to your nutrient solution, when using a properly balanced nutrient mix like Lucas with GH nutes. The nutrients already have buffers in them and the pH swing is rock solid and predictable. The issue comes from using hobby nutes or an improperly balanced mix, and/or additives in a way which messes up the pH swing. VERY common for all of those things to be happening at once, hydro and soil. Why throw unclean water into the mix with (usually) unknown and changing ingredients?

The information telling you to add 'something' to your water, so you can get a pH reading is garbage. Adding nutes provides plenty of 'something' for your meter to read, as soon as you add even a pinch or a splash of any nutrient. There happens to be quite a bit of folklore mixed in with the general cultivation information, these days anyway.

Ask anyone who's studied quality cannabis for any length of time and played with R/O, they'll tell you the same things I am.
(edit: I feel like a surgeon, having a discussion with a bunch of winos. lol Emotional reactions/levels and the idiocy of the statements I would get, are very, very similar.)

SO if your water smells like rotten eggs.....is that good or bad?

Also when you turn it on after not using it for a few days and rust comes out?

I think I am sticking to RO.....

Uberknot said:

SO if your water smells like rotten eggs.....is that good or bad?

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Hydrogen sulfide. Not good. You'll be happy with r/o.

Dr. Who said:

When I did Ebb and used the 148 ppm water. The yields were smaller and they grew slower.
The RO and only nutrients grew bigger, stronger and faster!
That's only a 148 ppm difference!

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Indeed, and I have no doubt lab tests will prove quality is affected by an even smaller ppm range.

I've written this type of article a few times now, posted it in a few places. This is probably the most recent one and, as far as I'm concerned, the only way to accomplish it is with r/o.

Cannabis is awesomely delicious.

Douglas.Curtis said:

I've written this type of article a few times now, posted it in a few places. This is probably the most recent one and, as far as I'm concerned, the only way to accomplish it is with r/o.

Cannabis is awesomely delicious.

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You probably grow great weed, maybe you're the best grower on the planet. Your assumptions as to how and why you have been successful are pseudo-scientific at best. And your assertions about what you can taste and smell as a result of a 13ppm difference in water are absolute horseshit.

Here's a little summary from a study, note that these metals ended up in the roots, almost entirely.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1026113905129

Imma just throw this in the mix... do you have a dehumidifier?
Use the water you collect from that for FREE distilled water.

Michael Huntherz said:

You probably grow great weed, maybe you're the best grower on the planet. Your assumptions as to how and why you have been successful are pseudo-scientific at best. And your assertions about what you can taste and smell as a result of a 13ppm difference in water are absolute horseshit.

Here's a little summary from a study, note that these metals ended up in the roots, almost entirely.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1026113905129

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I don't grow the best, though I've been privileged to have sampled some as good or better than mine. The experienced changed my thinking about cannabis and quality, 8 years ago. The rest will come down to lab tests. I'll gladly take the pepsi challenge, double-blind test.

Yes, I've read the study, did you? Dynamic/Hyper accumulator plants require a cleaner nutrient solution than your standard vegetable plant. There are other actions of uptake happening, alongside the 'passive ionic uptake' the organic growers depend on. In my experience these additional methods of uptake and the action cannabis uses to bind these elements directly to tissue are the main reason for the huge difference in quality.

When using an unbalanced nutrient, I believe a great deal of elements are being bound directly to the cell walls in new growth. This can be tested for by running side by side grows with varying custom mixes. The varying levels of residual npk and micros will show which elements cannabis is accumulating. Careful attention to keeping the grow environments the same will provide details for assessing their impact on the additional uptake pathways. (btw: These tests have not been done yet)

Cannabis is not a cucumber, please be sure you know everything you're exposing it to.

id say spring water but i also havent tried distilled yet tho because where im at it rains near about every week or two weeks so mother nature been good to me this grow season. i wouldnt even consider tap water unless you set it out in the sun and let the chlorine evaporate out, every now and then stiring it a lil.