Warning: carcinogens found in Humboldt county's own products
- Thread starter irieie
- Start date
reverof
Active Member
I am not saying that these products don't contain these so called carcinogenic items, but what i am saying is that California has some of the strictest laws when it comes to anythign chemical or agricultural. MANY items that are sold in every other state are illegal to be sold in California. It sounds like there was a problem with california ONLY and people, competitors or not have run with it to blast the company and attempt to get a leg up on a company that honestly sells a SHITLOAD of products.
I will say I am using Gravity for the first time on some of my plants and see awesome results from it. I will also say that the 2 local hydro shops I use say Gravity and Snow Storm are the 2 best selling products out there right now. (hence the competitor possibly attacking a california issue to degrade the company).
Now in the original post stating that these products have carcinogenic item(s) that gives rats cancer etc... chances are the rats are fed this stuff directly, not smoked, not inhaled, but FED to them. Also in these tests when tests are done, test animals are fed normally 1000% or more than what would normally consumed. The difference here is unless you cook with your weed, you probably get .001% of this stuff ingested through smoking at most. So basically if you used this stuff as instructed, and you smoked ALL the bud you grew, you would probably have to smoke a few hundred pounds a month to get 10% of this product in your system that the rats are fed for the test.
Now the person who talks about tobacco being carcinogenic, is right chemicals are sprayed ON TO the tobacco, what is also done is the tobacco is also chemically treated after harvest, all this adds to the carcinogenic items in tobacco, but very few if any come from items taken in via the roots of the plants.
Be honest with yourself and everyone out there... unless you are growing 100% organic, nutes, soil, water etc.. you are getting some bad products into your plants.... Yes I also stated WATER, why? because there is a minimum allowed of many carcinogenic items allowed in water sources, such as Mercury, Cyanide, Lead and many others.
Don't believe me... check out http://www.ewg.org/tap-water/home
look at some of the best & worst tap water sources and all the contaminants found in water sources around the US.
I will say I am using Gravity for the first time on some of my plants and see awesome results from it. I will also say that the 2 local hydro shops I use say Gravity and Snow Storm are the 2 best selling products out there right now. (hence the competitor possibly attacking a california issue to degrade the company).
Now in the original post stating that these products have carcinogenic item(s) that gives rats cancer etc... chances are the rats are fed this stuff directly, not smoked, not inhaled, but FED to them. Also in these tests when tests are done, test animals are fed normally 1000% or more than what would normally consumed. The difference here is unless you cook with your weed, you probably get .001% of this stuff ingested through smoking at most. So basically if you used this stuff as instructed, and you smoked ALL the bud you grew, you would probably have to smoke a few hundred pounds a month to get 10% of this product in your system that the rats are fed for the test.
Now the person who talks about tobacco being carcinogenic, is right chemicals are sprayed ON TO the tobacco, what is also done is the tobacco is also chemically treated after harvest, all this adds to the carcinogenic items in tobacco, but very few if any come from items taken in via the roots of the plants.
Be honest with yourself and everyone out there... unless you are growing 100% organic, nutes, soil, water etc.. you are getting some bad products into your plants.... Yes I also stated WATER, why? because there is a minimum allowed of many carcinogenic items allowed in water sources, such as Mercury, Cyanide, Lead and many others.
Don't believe me... check out http://www.ewg.org/tap-water/home
look at some of the best & worst tap water sources and all the contaminants found in water sources around the US.
there is a big difference between trace amounts and active ingredients. if you want to use this on plants that you will consume that is one thing. but if you are gonna make this available to patients (especially those with weakened immune systems) then that is irresponsible. if you cant grow great buds without these products then you are not that great at growing. this is not just a California thing it started in California that is all. ask your local hydro store if they can order more of these products. there is a reason they are on back order. its asshole growers that dont give a shit about what goes into their end product that forced me to start growing it myself. i simply wanted this information to be available to all growers.
spl1
Well-Known Member
Also Humboldt County's Own was around years before Humboldt Nutrients was thought of. Also Oregon and Washington have stricter laws then California in products like this. Oregon is always testing nutrient claims and fining the companies that don't comply, that's why you always see AN being fined for not having the products containing the ingredients on the label vs. what really in it.
I am not promoting these products but I hate it when there is no direct proof that links the claims. If Sea Kelp has a natural occurring source of Paclobutrazol in it then people all over the world would be sick from using sea kelp in the soil, food, and other products that it would have been published well before the MMJ movement came around.
Here is the test results from Washington State testing before it could be sold in their state.
http://agr.wa.gov/PESTFERT/Fertilizers/FertDB/suppinfo.aspx?pname=1744
California own test shows that Paclobutrazol did not cause
cancer in laboratory animals.
http://www.treegrowthregulator.com/documents/Profile_MSDS.pdf
I am not promoting these products but I hate it when there is no direct proof that links the claims. If Sea Kelp has a natural occurring source of Paclobutrazol in it then people all over the world would be sick from using sea kelp in the soil, food, and other products that it would have been published well before the MMJ movement came around.
Here is the test results from Washington State testing before it could be sold in their state.
http://agr.wa.gov/PESTFERT/Fertilizers/FertDB/suppinfo.aspx?pname=1744
California own test shows that Paclobutrazol did not cause
cancer in laboratory animals.
http://www.treegrowthregulator.com/documents/Profile_MSDS.pdf
twisterbilly
Active Member
No need to speculate http://www.integralhydro.com/flowerdragon.html Lab results for these products can be found here. They have been recalled from Ca and Oregon and the EPA are now investigating US wide. In brief...
CDFA Lab Test Results in Brief
Flower Dragon: 18,400-18,650ppm Daminozide, 30-46.3ppm Paclobutrazol
Phosphoload: 17,800ppm Daminozide, 20.6ppm Paclobutrazol
TopLoad: 3,467ppm Daminozide
Bushmaster: 271ppm Paclobutrazol
Gravity: 516ppm Paclobutrazol
CDFA Lab Test Results in Brief
Flower Dragon: 18,400-18,650ppm Daminozide, 30-46.3ppm Paclobutrazol
Phosphoload: 17,800ppm Daminozide, 20.6ppm Paclobutrazol
TopLoad: 3,467ppm Daminozide
Bushmaster: 271ppm Paclobutrazol
Gravity: 516ppm Paclobutrazol
Don Gin and Ton
Well-Known Member
great post billy! think i might write another email to the douche who was obviously talking shit to me.
Stomata
Well-Known Member
I agree with obijohn. Take the way percentages are reported. The only number ever given in these "reports" are the percentage itself. Without knowing the number of people surveyed, that number is completely irrelevant and misleading.
It would be easy to say "50% of people" or "half of those surveyed". But the problem is, without knowing how many people were surveyed the percentage number itself tells you nothing. For all we know, only two people were surveyed. One says yes, the other says no. There's your "half of those surveyed" statistic.
The bottom line is that in todays media, (to quote Jon Stewart), the name of the game is "style over substance". In other words, let's report on what put asses in the seats. Not nescessarily what is completely true or what matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
It would be easy to say "50% of people" or "half of those surveyed". But the problem is, without knowing how many people were surveyed the percentage number itself tells you nothing. For all we know, only two people were surveyed. One says yes, the other says no. There's your "half of those surveyed" statistic.
The bottom line is that in todays media, (to quote Jon Stewart), the name of the game is "style over substance". In other words, let's report on what put asses in the seats. Not nescessarily what is completely true or what matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
twisterbilly
Active Member
BS - The EPA states tests are inconclusive. It all has to do with the complexities of equating data.
IMO, unless all the FOOLS stop literally buying into all the hype that is dished out by sales people, there will always be high priced toxic products on the market. Stick to the tried and true, old products, and you won't have the problems. Only fools pay high prices for what the smart person pays pennies for.
DON'T BELIEVE SALES PEOPLE.
The makers of AVID say the same thing, that if used as they say, it's harmless.
(It's been proven in independent lab testing that Avid contains carcinogens and it's use on plants to be consumed is not recommended.)
PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1
Well-Known Member
Yea,,, California is a Messed up state when it come's to Everything!,,,Got Gravity and still going to use it. I smoke cig's too,,,so i'm not that worried. lol. But I flush for at least 2 week's and don't make good eat's just good smoke!
mastiffkush
Well-Known Member
Everything contains carcinogens, hell if you leave a water bottle in your car and it heats up above 80 degrees, it creates cancer causing carcinogens...Its fertilizers, they do the job that we need them to do..if you don't like it go organic. Flush before harvest with a good salt leacher and you will have nothing to worry about!
Michael Sparks
Active Member
This is why flushing is so important, also why vaporization is quite popular, however such means of production and manipulation exist as the result of lack of information in addition to transparency, labels are not truly consistent as to what is all in the product, petroleum based nutes are in every growing numbers.
Bump^
Bump^
twisterbilly
Active Member
Yeah well just don't sell your poisoned shite to others without warning them about the crap you use to grow with. Cough! Cough!
bryon209
Active Member
This is not true...you could easily avoid this by using synthetics not targeted at mj growers...
twisterbilly
Active Member
Absolutely. Most synthetics targeted towards MJ growers are fine too. It's just that some scumbags lie their asses off to part growers from their hard earned cash. Definitely no legitimate fert maker would even contemplate pulling such a scam - these products are typically made by criminal elements in the hydro industry. What type of pond scum sells paclobutrazol as Kelp LMFAO.
mr.bond
Well-Known Member
So after looking thru these six pages, I didn't actually see any proof as to why Snow Storm Ultra is carcenogenic. All I read was that 'some dude' that people 'trust' said so, and so did primary competitors of the manufacturer. Of course they are going to talk shit. Yes, Bushmaster has some shit in it that can fuck with plants, which is probably why it's not allowed to be sold in Ag-heavy states like CA. But again where is the proof. Aside from that, SSU and Bushmaster are very different products functionally. So if there really is a source and some evidence to support claims that HCO products create carcinogens, please bring it forth. Otherwise the wise ones on this site will ignore it like so much of the other BS that floats around on this forum. Thank you.
cheers
mr.bond
cheers
mr.bond
you are right PACLOBUTRAZOL is not classified as a human carcinogen as it states:
Substance Name Paclobutrazol
This substance/agent has not undergone a complete evaluation and determination under US EPA's IRIS program for evidence of human carcinogenic potential.
http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0182.htm
but there is another chemical found in flower dragon, phosphoload, and topload called
DAMINOZIDE (ALAR)
Daminozide is considered a hazardous substance according to OSHA 29 CFR 1910. 1200. The EPA lists Daminozide as a probable human carcinogen. Combustion products include: carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), and other pyrolysis products typical of burning organic material. Combustion may emit poisonous fumes. Daminozide is an S5 poison.
Daminozide is produced by reacting succinic acid ahydride with unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH also known as 1,1-Dimethylhydrazine). UDMH is toxic, a carcinogen and can be readily absorbed through the skin.
here are the links to the lab reports from alll three products:
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/FlowerDragon_Lab_Test.pdf
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/Phosphoload_Lab.pdf
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/TopLoad.pdf
so the EPA says that Daminozide is a carcinogen.
the lab results for these three products by the state of california state that Daminozide is present.
Therefore these products contain carcinogens.
Substance Name Paclobutrazol
This substance/agent has not undergone a complete evaluation and determination under US EPA's IRIS program for evidence of human carcinogenic potential.
http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0182.htm
but there is another chemical found in flower dragon, phosphoload, and topload called
DAMINOZIDE (ALAR)
Daminozide is considered a hazardous substance according to OSHA 29 CFR 1910. 1200. The EPA lists Daminozide as a probable human carcinogen. Combustion products include: carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), and other pyrolysis products typical of burning organic material. Combustion may emit poisonous fumes. Daminozide is an S5 poison.
Daminozide is produced by reacting succinic acid ahydride with unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH also known as 1,1-Dimethylhydrazine). UDMH is toxic, a carcinogen and can be readily absorbed through the skin.
here are the links to the lab reports from alll three products:
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/FlowerDragon_Lab_Test.pdf
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/Phosphoload_Lab.pdf
http://www.integralhydro.com/PDFsamples/TopLoad.pdf
so the EPA says that Daminozide is a carcinogen.
the lab results for these three products by the state of california state that Daminozide is present.
Therefore these products contain carcinogens.
twisterbilly
Active Member
I think you are missing the point. PBZ is not shown to be a carcinogen but has not been not shown to be a carcinogen because “Substance Name — Paclobutrazol
This substance/agent has not undergone a complete evaluation and determination under US EPA's IRIS program for evidence of human carcinogenic potential. “
http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0182.htm.
It however is definitely linked to liver disease. From the US EPA and Californian Environmental Protection Agency
" “Based on the currently available toxicity information, DPR concluded that paclobutrazol causes
adverse effects on liver function and developmental effects in rodents. DPR has further concluded that, in the absence of additional data to the contrary, paclobutrazol has the potential to cause similar effects in humans.”
A couple of interesting links!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8q2vDGz5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvUz5fTw3fI
This substance/agent has not undergone a complete evaluation and determination under US EPA's IRIS program for evidence of human carcinogenic potential. “
http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0182.htm.
It however is definitely linked to liver disease. From the US EPA and Californian Environmental Protection Agency
" “Based on the currently available toxicity information, DPR concluded that paclobutrazol causes
adverse effects on liver function and developmental effects in rodents. DPR has further concluded that, in the absence of additional data to the contrary, paclobutrazol has the potential to cause similar effects in humans.”
A couple of interesting links!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J8q2vDGz5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvUz5fTw3fI