War

Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Putin responding to the suggestion Ukraine can hit targets in Russia: again threatening to hurt us if we do what we and others would do only more if he would act on his threats. Dude we get it, you got nukes. Means we can’t attack and destroy Russia without severe consequences, doesn’t mean Russia can attack and destroy others without severe consequences.

apnews.com

Ukraine gets more military aid from Europe but Putin warns of consequences if Russian soil is hit

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has received a second $1 billion promise of military aid in as many days during a whirlwind tour of three European Union countries.
apnews.com apnews.com

The use of Western-supplied long-range weapons by Ukraine to strike Russian territory could bring a dangerous escalation, Putin said Tuesday, speaking to reporters while on a trip to Uzbekistan. The use of such weapons would rely on Western intelligence data and imply the involvement of NATO military personnel, Putin said, warning the alliance that they should be aware of the possible consequences.

“Representatives of countries that are NATO members, particularly in Europe, should be aware of what they are playing with,” [Putin] said, adding that “countries with small territory and dense populations” should be particularly careful.

The Netherlands [yo article author why you went on immediately to ‘the Netherlands‘? Luxemburg and Monaco are small and crowded too!] promised to quickly assemble with key EU partners a Patriot air defense system, which Zelenskyy sees as key in stopping Russia from hitting Ukraine’s power grid and civilian areas, as well as military targets, with devastating glide bombs.

…

Soooo.. about those launch codes… for those 22 American B61 bombs we got...
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Putin responding to the suggestion Ukraine can hit targets in Russia: again threatening to hurt us if we do what we and others would do only more if he would act on his threats. Dude we get it, you got nukes. Means we can’t attack and destroy Russia without severe consequences, doesn’t mean Russia can attack and destroy others without severe consequences.

apnews.com

Ukraine gets more military aid from Europe but Putin warns of consequences if Russian soil is hit

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has received a second $1 billion promise of military aid in as many days during a whirlwind tour of three European Union countries.
apnews.com apnews.com

The use of Western-supplied long-range weapons by Ukraine to strike Russian territory could bring a dangerous escalation, Putin said Tuesday, speaking to reporters while on a trip to Uzbekistan. The use of such weapons would rely on Western intelligence data and imply the involvement of NATO military personnel, Putin said, warning the alliance that they should be aware of the possible consequences.

“Representatives of countries that are NATO members, particularly in Europe, should be aware of what they are playing with,” [Putin] said, adding that “countries with small territory and dense populations” should be particularly careful.

The Netherlands [yo article author why you went on immediately to ‘the Netherlands‘? Luxemburg and Monaco are small and crowded too!] promised to quickly assemble with key EU partners a Patriot air defense system, which Zelenskyy sees as key in stopping Russia from hitting Ukraine’s power grid and civilian areas, as well as military targets, with devastating glide bombs.

…

Soooo.. about those launch codes… for those 22 American B61 bombs we got...
Click to expand...
Pooty does like to sabre rattle with those nukes......he knows if he fires one of, he done for.......
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
BudmanTX said:
Pooty does like to sabre rattle with those nukes......he knows if he fires one of, he done for.......
Click to expand...
He threatened with it so many times over the past years that people no longer take it serious anyway. Russia owning nukes is the threat, Putin saying he might use them if... doesn't have an additional impact. It doesn't make supporting Ukraine against the common enemy with nukes optional, it only shows how important it is. I don't think Putin is anywhere near as smart as some paint him to be. When the war started, we barely saw a difference between Russians and Ukrainians. In some ways Russia was a more respected neighbor than Ukraine. Well that certainly changed. Every time Putin threatens he only reinforces the idea we need to form a stronger united front.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
www.dw.com

Macron, Scholz: Ukraine can strike some targets in Russia – DW – 05/28/2024

The two leaders said they were in lock-step when it came to supporting Ukraine for as long as it takes. Macron called for Kyiv to be allowed to strike military positions in Russia that were used to attack Ukraine.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and French President Emmanuel Macron on Tuesday spoke in favor of allowing Ukraine to attack Russian positions inside Russia with Western weapons.

"We think that we should allow them to neutralize military sites where missiles are fired, from where ... Ukraine is attacked," Macron said at a joint press conference alongside the German chancellor following talks at Schloss Meseberg near Berlin, the official state guest house of the German Federal Republic.

At the same time, he stressed that "we should not allow them to touch other targets in Russia, and obviously civilian capacities." Macron’s comments came on the third and final day of a state visit to Germany.

Scholz was more cautious, but said he had no legal objections to Macron's approach. He emphasized that as long as Ukraine respected international law and the conditions of countries supplying the weapons, it was "allowed to defend itself."

"allowed to defend itself"... right... things get tricky when you suggest Israel can defend itself by dropping bombs on a small area with 2mil people to target tens of thousands Hamas members but don't allow Ukraine to even attack military targets across the border to actually defend itself from ongoing attacks.

Go Macron. With Merkel gone, Rutte gone, UK's brexit, Italy going fascist again, Scholz not claiming his full potential, I sure don't mind Macron stepping up as de facto leader of EU. He clearly enjoys being on the world stage, sometimes catch him staring in the distance imagining himself the emperor, I say let him, we need some of that right now.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Sativied said:
Putin responding to the suggestion Ukraine can hit targets in Russia: again threatening to hurt us if we do what we and others would do only more if he would act on his threats. Dude we get it, you got nukes. Means we can’t attack and destroy Russia without severe consequences, doesn’t mean Russia can attack and destroy others without severe consequences.

apnews.com

Ukraine gets more military aid from Europe but Putin warns of consequences if Russian soil is hit

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has received a second $1 billion promise of military aid in as many days during a whirlwind tour of three European Union countries.
apnews.com apnews.com

The use of Western-supplied long-range weapons by Ukraine to strike Russian territory could bring a dangerous escalation, Putin said Tuesday, speaking to reporters while on a trip to Uzbekistan. The use of such weapons would rely on Western intelligence data and imply the involvement of NATO military personnel, Putin said, warning the alliance that they should be aware of the possible consequences.

“Representatives of countries that are NATO members, particularly in Europe, should be aware of what they are playing with,” [Putin] said, adding that “countries with small territory and dense populations” should be particularly careful.

The Netherlands [yo article author why you went on immediately to ‘the Netherlands‘? Luxemburg and Monaco are small and crowded too!] promised to quickly assemble with key EU partners a Patriot air defense system, which Zelenskyy sees as key in stopping Russia from hitting Ukraine’s power grid and civilian areas, as well as military targets, with devastating glide bombs.

…

Soooo.. about those launch codes… for those 22 American B61 bombs we got...
Click to expand...
Maybe Luxembourg’s air force is having the jet detailed.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
He threatened with it so many times over the past years that people no longer take it serious anyway. Russia owning nukes is the threat, Putin saying he might use them if... doesn't have an additional impact. It doesn't make supporting Ukraine against the common enemy with nukes optional, it only shows how important it is. I don't think Putin is anywhere near as smart as some paint him to be. When the war started, we barely saw a difference between Russians and Ukrainians. In some ways Russia was a more respected neighbor than Ukraine. Well that certainly changed. Every time Putin threatens he only reinforces the idea we need to form a stronger united front.
Click to expand...
while true, but the one who been doing the saber rattling has been the drunk( Dmitry Medvedev )more than anyone, and also the propaganda are has been saying it too.....i'm surprised that pooty actually mentioned it. When it comes to Pooty, he isn't smart, he's cunning, it's something to be careful and mindful of..

The EU needs to put up more of an united front, especially when and what they're talking about now.....striking russia and it's bases....
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Let’s start calling Orban for what he is, a traitor.

www.politico.eu

EU ministers fume as ‘outrageous’ Hungary yet again blocks military aid for Ukraine

A large number of EU resolutions on Ukraine are being blocked by Hungary, said Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

“We looked into this and apparently about 41 percent of resolutions by the EU on Ukraine have been blocked by Hungary.”

41%!

They still buy Russian gas too.

I was watching a historian a few days ago, who knew Orban in 1988, talk about him, how that smart and idealistic student told him he wanted to create the ”perfect democracy” of Hungary.

“After his 1989 speech to a large crowd in Heroes' Square, he went on to study liberal political philosophy briefly at Oxford. His scholarship was funded by Hungarian-born billionaire philanthropist George Soros, a benefactor he would turn against years later. [I remember Orban closing the university sponsored by Soros]. Within months he had abandoned his studies early to campaign in 1990 elections, when Fidesz [party]won 22 seats, with Viktor Orban top of the party list.”

“Political scientist Zoltan Lakner believes Viktor Orban shifted ideology during the second half of the 1990s. As Hungary was governed by a liberal-socialist coalition, he realised "to gain political success he had to turn his back on liberalism and transform his party into a nationalist, anti-liberal political force". Perhaps the seeds of his reversal were already sown at Oxford. In his few months at Pembroke College, he befriended the conservative philosopher Roger Scruton.

Or perhaps it was more political opportunism.”

www.bbc.com

Who is Viktor Orban, Hungarian PM with 14-year grip on power?

He has led Hungary since 2010 and critics denounce his "hybrid regime of electoral autocracy".
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

That’s the consensus now, Orban cares only about power and money. His obstructions fueled the discussion about the veto right, which I think is a core value of EU, after all we’re not a federation. Either we all agree or it’s not something we do together. Instead of killing the veto right - throwing out the baby with the washing water - to deal with Hungary, Hungary should be kicked out of EU. Plenty of valid and good reasons to do that already. He went from a nuisance to an actual danger.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Italy refuses to allow Ukraine to use the weapons Italy supplied against targets in Russia and is not pleased with the others slowly taking the gloves off.

decode39.com

NATO chief’s remarks on Ukraine strikes spark political tensions in Italy - Decode39

Secretary General Stoltenberg calls for allies to allow Kyiv to use supplied weapons against Russian targets. Following criticisms within the government, PM Meloni urges prudence and labels as “irresponsible” those perpetuating the alarming narrative of a Europe on the brink of a broad conflict.
decode39.com decode39.com

Not a major supporter anyway. US on the other hand:

Biden gives Ukraine permission to carry out limited strikes within Russia using US weapons


France likely to send ”instructors” to Ukraine:

www.dw.com

Troops in Ukraine — will the West break its own taboo? – DW – 05/30/2024

The more Russia bombs Ukraine, the more pressure on the West. Some countries are pushing for allowing Western weapons for attacks inside Russia, others might send instructors. Even a no-fly zone might be on the table.
www.dw.com www.dw.com
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Burned-down shopping mall in Poland
notesfrompoland.com

Russia "likely" behind fire that destroyed Warsaw shopping centre, says Tusk

But he added that investigations are still ongoing.
notesfrompoland.com notesfrompoland.com

Swedish trains mysteriously derailing

A fire in a Ukraine support storage in UK

Explosives buried near a NATO kerosene line in Germany

Russians mapping Europe's largest internet exchange's underwater cable network along the coast of NL

The election interference attempts throughout Europe and for EU parliament elections next week.

The constant cyber attacks.

Redrawing the map... a proposal that disappeared shortly after being discovered.
maritime-executive.com

Russia May Try to Redraw its Boundaries in the Baltic Sea

Russia Proposes Controversial Review of Maritime Zones in the Baltic SeaRussia has riled up its western neighbors with a new proposal to re-draw its m...
maritime-executive.com maritime-executive.com

Arson at an Ikea warehouse in Lithuania

The list goes on.

www.euronews.com

NATO has upped vigilance amid suspected Russian sabotage - Stoltenberg

A string of recent suspected sabotage operations across allied countries has the military alliance on the alert. #EuropeNews
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Putin and his big mouth threatening small and densely populated countries... They got 8x the population of NL, gazillion times more territory, only double the gdp. We barely make the 2% spending on defense by choice, stop poking, I want to see dental back in free healthcare, cancel all debts of the poor (ideas from what some say is radical left but will save much more than it costs), but if needed we can pull our wallet. Heck, we borrow money at near zero % interest rate and have almost the lowest debt in EU. We make money borrowing money (interest still lower than inflation). Might want to knock it off with the threats, makes people approve more of the annual budget going to defense and care less about inflation.

We had a female minister of defense a bunch of years ago, I wasn't convinced that was a good choice over some old career army guy, didn't work out well either. She wasn't tough enough. Army ran out of bullets and were trained to say "pang!". But lady Kasja Ollongren (Finish and Swedish and Dutch nobility, which really means nothing to anyone anymore except for in certain crowds including some diplomatic relations, and is not why she got the position, second person of true liberal dems in NL) is not one to mess with. She'll be out in a month and possibly replaced by an idiot but while she can she almost daily is taking/publishing significant action.

Anyway, this is what I'm talking about:

english.defensie.nl

F-35 to take over nuclear role of the Netherlands within NATO from F-16

The Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) is set to take a next step in the transition from the F-16 to the F-35. On 1 June 2024, the advanced fighter aircraft will fully take over the nuclear role of the Netherlands within NATO from the F-16. The Netherlands is one of the NATO Allies that...
english.defensie.nl english.defensie.nl

Netherlands first to declare F-35s performing nuclear role

The Netherlands has become the first operator of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) to publicly declare that its aircraft have now taken on...
www.janes.com

The Netherlands has become the first operator of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) to publicly declare that its aircraft have now taken on the nuclear mission.

The Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) said that it had now fully transitioned the nuclear deterrence mission it performs on behalf of NATO over to the F-35A from the Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon.

“On 1 June the [F-35A] advanced fighter aircraft [took] over the nuclear role of the Netherlands within NATO from the F-16,” the RNLAF said. “The Netherlands is one of the NATO allies that contributes dual-capable aircraft [DCA] to NATO's nuclear deterrence, and is the first European country transitioning to the F-35 in that context.”

The Netherlands is acquiring 52 F-35As [we got 33 already] to cover nuclear and conventional strike roles. With the type flown across two squadrons based at Leeuwarden Air Base (322 Squadron) and Volkel Air Base (313 Squadron) respectively, it is the latter that will perform the nuclear role.

Roughly 50 nukes, not the inflatable type, each 4 times as strong as the ones dropped on Japan. Often when Russia's nuclear capability is compared to others they take into account the size of Russia, while all you have to do is nuke Moscow and St. Petersburg and even Putin won't be able to fool himself he's winning. It would end his ambition of restoring the Russian empire. So fuck him.

Or as this guy puts it:

(I don't agree with his reasoning, results in the past do not dictate the outcome of the future, but yeah, call Putin's bluff and take a stand and get it over with.)
 
C

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
That only means I buy cheaper gasoline and liquor than you, I’m no expert on Germany or their politics because of my proximity to their border. I somewhat speak the language which makes their newspapers and TV more accessible, and they have a key position in EU so they‘re more on my radar than other EU members.

Just tired of seeing the appeasing. An opinion shared by some in Germany but many more in the rest of EU, both east and west. Scholz keeps going on about how the guy holding a nuke to his country’s head might, no, will, punish them if they are out of line. I don’t think that’s the message to send to Putin and the Russians. The nazis didn't have to be smart to pick Rotterdam to bomb. Do that with a decent nuke and most people in Amsterdam die too. The Hague is nearly connected to Rotterdam so ICC and ICJ would be mere collateral damage too. It’s taking forever but those dutch, belgium and danish F16s are being send over, and then some. UK sent long range, France too. All the former at least are considering to allow Ukraine to attack targets inside Russia, willing to call Putin's bluff a little more, taking a risk. Germany has deep pockets but keeps drawing lines, no targets inside Russia so no Taurus for Ukraine. At this point not allowing Ukraine to attack targets in Russia is setting them up for an impossible task with only defeat as outcome.

Recently a bunch of explosives were found buried near another major gas pipe in Germany, the German far-right is connected to Russia, Germany’s economy is still trying to recover from the major damage Russia has done. Germany and the rest of EU is practically already at war with Russia, it's just that they let the Ukrainians do the actual fighting and that’s not working out too well atm for Ukraine and thus potentially EU. It’s not a proxy war at Far-away-i-stan though, it’s at the border. Maybe we should try harder to win instead of letting Russia gain territory and move the front line closer.

Strange strategy that is… letting an enemy that threatens to end you if you don’t let them murder your neighbors come closer because you don’t want to piss them off too much in hopes they don’t murder you too. I didn’t vote for that.

Nukes, long range missiles or carpet bombing, it's not that different for the people dying. Dead is dead. The difference between Rotterdam and Amsterdam is the first has all modern architecture because conventional bombs works just fine to destroy cities. I don’t fear Putin’s nukes any more than Genghis Khan’s flaming cats and birds. By the time half of Germany is nuked Moscow and St. Petersburg would have an existential crisis and Russia would be defeated. Maybe after WW2 they should take one for the team, j/k bad joke.
Click to expand...
Intelligent points,intelligent man,a shit sandwich brought on by Russian paranoia about invasion and buffer zones,Russia can't get past their sphere of influence even though 90 % of those who came under Russia's thumb wanted independence and western integration pronto. That said Russia had much invested in Ukraine in the past,I think they ceded Crimea to Ukraine during Soviet times as a mere formality never thinking they'd actually lose control/influence over a very strategic locale.NATO expansion to some of these countries seemed to water down the alliance and poke Russia at the same time.. I'm not advocating for this ridiculous invasion I'm just looking at it from Russia's end of the table. As far as I'm concerned the only nations that should have been admitted to NATO post 1990,are Poland,Chech REp/Slovakia,and the Baltic nations. Sweden and Finland I'm fine with as Putin forced their hands.As an American I think my country's pop. is not ready or even understanding what war vs. capable nation states entails today,leaving nukes out of the conversation,the amount of chaos cyber attacks will bring is off the charts,EVERYONE is a animal after electricity is gone in 72 hrs.,financial,medical,industrial sectors all ground to a complete halt,who's really ready to bear those burdens??? It's insane,sobering,and depressing to even contemplate a complete gloves off confrontation and we have 75+ yrs. of softness to overcome,damn 1/2 of Americans would be suicidal sans cell phone and I hope we're not marching down this road blindly and uninformed. Whoever has a reasonable solution to Ukraine leaving all satisfied w/an enduring peace deserves a Noble Peace award.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Putin was counting on the Chinese economy to make up for losing access to the European market for natural gas sales. Turns out that Xi didn't want to pay market prices nor did he want to commit to buying all that the pipeline could carry.

Russia-China gas pipeline deal stalls over Beijing's price demands, Financial Times reports
By Reuters
June 2, 20241:33 PM PDTUpdated 6 hours ago

June 2 (Reuters) - Russia's attempts to conclude a major gas pipeline deal with China have run aground over what Moscow sees as Beijing's unreasonable demands on price and supply levels, the Financial Times reported on Sunday citing three people familiar with the matter.
China had asked to pay close to Russia's heavily subsidised domestic prices and would only commit to buying a small fraction of the pipeline's planned annual capacity of 50 billion cubic metres of gas according to the report.

Russia has been in talks for years about building the Power of Siberia-2 pipeline to carry 50 billion cubic metres of natural gas a year from the Yamal region in northern Russia to China via Mongolia.
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said last month that Russia and China expect to a sign a contract "in the near future" on the Power of Siberia-2 gas pipeline.

Gazprom, which had been funding Putin's war on Ukraine lost almost $7B last year, the first losses in decades. It is a massive project that would connect gas field on the Yamal Peninsula at the edge of the northern Kara Sea to Northern China, crossing 1600 miles and the Altai Mountain range. It would cross all of Russia and Mongolia going north to south. To pay for it, The Power of Siberia 2 Project would also rely on Chinese banks, which hasn't been agreed upon either.

Chinese economists project shortfalls in gas supplies for China to begin in the 2030s and gradually deepen through 2050, so its not as if this would be charity work for Russia. OTOH, time is on Xi's side in this. Gazprom lost its customers in Europe and was counting on the pipeline to China to make up for its losses beginning in 2029, leading one Russian bank to cut profit estimates for Gazprom that year by 15%.

One reason given for China's reluctance to give this project a green light are the costs of incurring sanctions for helping Russia prosecute its war with Ukraine.

This sort of thing is why I thought Putin would be crazy to invade Ukraine. It turned out that didn't stop Putin from doing so but I wasn't wrong on that point.

Financial Times has a more detailed report. It's behind a paywall but here is the link anyway:

Russia-China gas pipeline deal stalls over Beijing’s price demands

Power of Siberia 2 project would offer lifeline to exporter Gazprom as Moscow’s dependence on its neighbour grows
www.ft.com www.ft.com
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
euromaidanpress.com

The Netherlands to invest 400 million euros to produce infantry fighting vehicles for Ukraine - Euromaidan Press

Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren revealed that this production will predominantly take place on Dutch soil, marking a significant boost for the nation's defense industry.
euromaidanpress.com euromaidanpress.com

d180919vk0228.jpg

More YPR will be build and send over as well, so far 207 in total have been delivered

unnamed.jpg

Separated from the harsh reality, they look kinda like cute mini tanks.

Also:

"Last week, the Netherlands expressed its approval for Ukraine to potentially use F-16 fighter jets over Russian territory for self-defense purposes, citing the United Nations Charter’s provisions on self-defense. The Dutch foreign minister, Bruins Slot, stated that if Ukraine has the right to self-defense, there are no borders for using weapons."
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
euromaidanpress.com

The Netherlands to invest 400 million euros to produce infantry fighting vehicles for Ukraine - Euromaidan Press

Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren revealed that this production will predominantly take place on Dutch soil, marking a significant boost for the nation's defense industry.
euromaidanpress.com euromaidanpress.com

View attachment 5398481

More YPR will be build and send over as well, so far 207 in total have been delivered

View attachment 5398482

Separated from the harsh reality, they look kinda like cute mini tanks.

Also:

"Last week, the Netherlands expressed its approval for Ukraine to potentially use F-16 fighter jets over Russian territory for self-defense purposes, citing the United Nations Charter’s provisions on self-defense. The Dutch foreign minister, Bruins Slot, stated that if Ukraine has the right to self-defense, there are no borders for using weapons."
Click to expand...
Dutch version of a Bradley....possibly? Nice
 
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