War

80 years after WW2 and not only are they no longer aggressive, only 30% of the Germans would be willing to pick up arms to fight to defend their country against a direct attack by Russia, 50% would not fight at all. I bet that percentage is higher in the east...


The public’s perception is also why the delivery of taurus missiles still seems unlikely, none of the ruling parties are willing to lose votes over it.

“According to a new survey by the German Forsa Institute, 66% of Germans are against supplying Ukraine with Taurus missiles. Only 28% are in favor, as opposed to 35% at the end of February.”

something you don't see every day, sea baby with mlrs rocket launchers.

Interesting.....dunno about unguided munition though, guided munitions could be a game changer, unguided figure at sea close range could do something then take the uav close range and blow it, that could do some damage.....possibly

interesting map in the background......



come on Blinken, lets take the gloves off, and really scare the crap out of Pooty....

oookkkaaayyyy wait wut??


i'm gonna with a hard "NO" with this, cause you really can't believe Pooty in what he's saying......

i'm gonna have to believe in Kuleba...js

Why are Russian "sources" suddenly telling the media that Putin is willing to halt the war at the current battle lines? It’s simple.

Putin is desperately trying to derail the Peace Summit in Switzerland on June 15–16. He is scared of its success. His entourage sends these phony signals of alleged readiness for a cease-fire despite the fact that Russian troops continue to brutally attack Ukraine while their missiles and drones rain down on Ukrainian cities and communities.

Putin currently has no desire to end his aggression against Ukraine. Only the principled and united voice of the global majority can force him to choose peace over war. This is what the Peace Summit is intended to achieve. This is why he is so afraid of it.

And this is why it is critical to have as many leaders as possible from all continents and parts of the world present. When the entire world speaks out in support of restoring the full force of the UN Charter and international law, Russia will be forced to choose peace.


it's also could be Russia's loses, almost 500k in personal + or -

The battle between ATACMs and the S400.........



Hope Russia didn't need those.....hmm

Sativied said:

80 years after WW2 and not only are they no longer aggressive, only 30% of the Germans would be willing to pick up arms to fight to defend their country against a direct attack by Russia, 50% would not fight at all. I bet that percentage is higher in the east...

Germans not worried about war — but should they be? – DW – 05/22/2024

German politicians and military officials are warning of the threat of a Russian attack. But ordinary Germans seem to see things differently. And, according to surveys, only a minority of them would be willing to fight.

www.dw.com

The public’s perception is also why the delivery of taurus missiles still seems unlikely, none of the ruling parties are willing to lose votes over it.

“According to a new survey by the German Forsa Institute, 66% of Germans are against supplying Ukraine with Taurus missiles. Only 28% are in favor, as opposed to 35% at the end of February.”

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No shit,the FKN Germans(I run 25% germanic blood)have to realize the peace dividend under US protection is threatened,US has China on it's plate now as well as NATO. Their hood has changed w/a outright aggressive Russia launching Europe's biggest conflagration in 75 yrs.,their state of readiness is woeful and they need to awaken to a new reality. It's time to put their fabled ingenuity and industriousness toward protecting their own asses,you can't tell me that 75 yrs of peace and generous social programs has erased the fierceness that resides in their DNA.Running from the horrors of the past is not conducive to pulling your own weight in Europe's new normal,time to shed the shackles of german wussiness pronto,look at your Polish neighbors for inspiration if you can get over your self induced superiority complex,or has that gone along w/your willingness to protect yourselves?

The current state in Ukraine finds me pessimistic,the May Day parade showcasing captured Abrams,Bradley's,Leophard tanks as well as a plethora of Western military equipment is sobering and leads to pause in sending any cutting edge tech to Ukraine.Ukraine has performed admirably and bravely in bucking the odds and their resilience and ability to "Mc Giver" weapons is praiseworthy as well.That said Russia has rebooted and put it's economy on a war footing,along w/Iranian,N.Korean and wink,wink Chinese assistance,it's superior population of fighting age people is also starting to show itself as well w/new pushes all along the front against exhausted Ukrainian troops.Russia ALWAYS seems to teeter on the brink w/extraordinary losses before finding footing by throwing seemingly never ending troops into the fray.The nuke saber hanging over this war has intimidated the West by moving cautiously and in hindsight too slowly. Seems forcing Ukraine into a overly optimistic offensive last summer w/new provided armor w/Western trained newly formed Brigades BUT lacking any semblance of Air support was folly and a waste of personnel and material. Under current circumstances I regretfully see NO scenario in which Ukraine recovers pre-2014 territory. Introducing Western forces would result in the use of nukes by Russia as they would eventually lose to superior NATO forces.Palatable outcomes are pretty much absent and negotiation will surely result in a N.Kore/S.Korea type border standoff in Europe and that is probably the least bitter of outcomes. That said a democratic Ukraine,w/Kyiv intact would be considered a implausible victory and outcome when the initial Russian invasion began in Feb. 2022 and no one gave the Ukrainian's a snowballs chance in hell of lasting a month. The initial euphoria of a botched invasion,a coup replacing Putin w/a pro West leader in retrospect seems like fools gold,now replaced by a new cold reality of a new cold war in Europe along a axis somewhere in Eastern Ukraine along a negotiated line under a constant state of tension reminiscent of E/W Germany's Berlin wall.

1 out of 4 EVs sold in Europe is this year is made in China...


If the world doesn't unite to end this war (and Hamas-Israel's), I think Taiwan is screwed sooner or later.

CCGNZ said:

No shit,the FKN Germans(I run 25% germanic blood)have to realize the peace dividend under US protection is threatened,US has China on it's plate now as well as NATO. Their hood has changed w/a outright aggressive Russia launching Europe's biggest conflagration in 75 yrs.,their state of readiness is woeful and they need to awaken to a new reality. It's time to put their fabled ingenuity and industriousness toward protecting their own asses,you can't tell me that 75 yrs of peace and generous social programs has erased the fierceness that resides in their DNA.Running from the horrors of the past is not conducive to pulling your own weight in Europe's new normal,time to shed the shackles of german wussiness pronto,look at your Polish neighbors for inspiration if you can get over your self induced superiority complex,or has that gone along w/your willingness to protect yourselves?

Click to expand...

50% not willing to fight sure sounds high. I don’t have numbers from other eu nations to compare to but it sure looks like sending an international allied force to neuter an evil state has been very effective. Now if only we’d do the same with Russia. Nukes or no nukes, can’t saddle up future generations with Russia holding a gun to their heads.

Also, the German government is a strong supporter of Ukraine.


”While initially hesitant, Berlin has become Ukraine’s second-largest military donor after the US, although German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is still reluctant to supply some key capabilities, namely Taurus long-range missiles.”

Here is what Republican stalling has achieved for their Russian masters.

Scholz continues to ignore calls from his own ministers.


Speaking at an event in Berlin, Scholz said that Germany gave clear rules to Ukraine prohibiting the use of German weapons on Russian soil and that he sees no reason to change this. He added that his policy is to prevent escalation into a “really big war.”

Putin is lucky Merkel is no longer in charge. This is not a "really big war"? Compared to WW2 maybe... It would be to prevent such escalation. Much of Europe, especially the countries closest to Ukraine/Russia, but also plenty in the west, are convinced Putin won't stop in Ukraine if he isn't stopped entirely. He's old, wants to restore the Russian empire, and can't be reasoned with. Allowing Ukraine to lose would bring the enemy closer, risking that "really big war".

This is an older article but the title fits, still.

Another one, that reflect the overall sentiment towards Scholz and his Germany:

While we kind of want Germany to get over it and approach the situation like they do most things (reasonable and cool-headed), in this case it might just be a good thing, the lack of power Germany holds atm, largely because Scholz. They're divided, his party is just a small fraction. He might not be able to resist much longer without risking his own position, which is by the grace of the two others in the traffic light coalition (for you 2-party folks: there's more than blue and red in a multiparty system. A traffic-light coalition basically means parties across the spectrum form a coalition).

Russia gives the nuclear saber a loud rattle.

Some more background on the German perspective:

Merkel, ranked the most powerful woman 14 times (extreme contrast with Scholz...)


Putin told her that the collapse of the Soviet Union had been "the worst event of the 20th century." Merkel replied that for her, as someone who grew up in communist East Germany, the fall of the Berlin Wall meant she could live her life in freedom. Putin, she said, "hated" the Western model of democracy and wanted to "destroy" the European Union.


It was 14 years ago, in 2008, that Merkel, together with France's then president, Nicolas Sarkozy, helped block NATO's membership invitation to Ukraine during an alliance summit in Bucharest. They saw it as a provocation to Russia. Zelenskyy has called that decision a "miscalculation" that has led to Ukraine now "fighting for our lives in the most horrific war in Europe since World War II."

But also Merkel:

She refused to apologize for her policies towards Moscow, but stressed there was no justification for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

"It's an objective breach of all international laws and of everything that allows us in Europe to live in peace at all. If we start going back through the centuries and arguing over which bit of territory should belong to whom, then we will only have war. That's not an option whatsoever."

Germany is being pushed by NL, Denmark, Poland and France (the latter needs to start backing up their words with more action) but Scholz seems immutable and acts like NL did at the start of WW2, think they can sit this one out.

France's Macron is talking the talk but not quite walking the walk yet. He did fly to Germany and meet his counterpart the German president (thus not chancellor Scholz).


Macron recently proposed to share France's nuclear power to become EU's nuclear power. Considering that will lead to more nukes it's a bad idea by itself. I think the EU should instead sanction China into breaking ties with Putin entirely. Either you're with us....

Sativied said:

50% not willing to fight sure sounds high. I don’t have numbers from other eu nations to compare to but it sure looks like sending an international allied force to neuter an evil state has been very effective. Now if only we’d do the same with Russia. Nukes or no nukes, can’t saddle up future generations with Russia holding a gun to their heads.

Also, the German government is a strong supporter of Ukraine.

Germany, Denmark delivers 10 Leopard tanks, 3 HIMARS to Ukraine - Euromaidan Press

In addition to tanks and missile systems, Germany's latest military package for Ukraine includes ammunition, engineer vehicles, drones and small arms valued at billions of euros.

euromaidanpress.com

”While initially hesitant, Berlin has become Ukraine’s second-largest military donor after the US, although German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is still reluctant to supply some key capabilities, namely Taurus long-range missiles.”

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I know you're A LOT closer to this hood than my American ass bro,but any force cobbled together will surely be seen as West/NATO by Russia and damn the shock of that and of course Putin's "all cards are on the table talk" faced w/superior forces,calling it a cute name other than NATO involvement won't sell w/Russia and I'm pretty sure odds are that all out war is in those cards. The odds NATO/Western/call the force what you want restores pre- 2014 Ukraine,doles out an ass kicking to Putin,Russia goes home,tail between legs,and Europe goes forward happily ever after are close to infinitismal IMO,that said morally you're right and it's a cost benefit analysis of righting a wrong vs the biggest holder of nuke warheads who upon expulsion from Ukraine probably concludes that Russia's sovereignty is threatened and then we all get out the geiger counters. Rallying up to go to war vs. nuke armed tyrants has never been attempted,this situation considering DIRECT(not proxy)war vs. a nuclear state is the first of it's kind,nukes are game changers that's why Kim Jung Un starves his people. It's a shit sandwhich in Ukraine concerning how to proceed,I don't have answers,and every move is perilous. If city flattening,extinction threatening weaponry didn't exist the West would have probably directly intervened on Ukraine's behalf by now.

More blatant opinioneering by a conservative news distributor, casting shade on a legitimate Ukrainian action.

(un-paywalled by Yahoo)

CCGNZ said:

I know you're A LOT closer to this hood than my American ass bro,

Click to expand...

That only means I buy cheaper gasoline and liquor than you, I’m no expert on Germany or their politics because of my proximity to their border. I somewhat speak the language which makes their newspapers and TV more accessible, and they have a key position in EU so they‘re more on my radar than other EU members.

Just tired of seeing the appeasing. An opinion shared by some in Germany but many more in the rest of EU, both east and west. Scholz keeps going on about how the guy holding a nuke to his country’s head might, no, will, punish them if they are out of line. I don’t think that’s the message to send to Putin and the Russians. The nazis didn't have to be smart to pick Rotterdam to bomb. Do that with a decent nuke and most people in Amsterdam die too. The Hague is nearly connected to Rotterdam so ICC and ICJ would be mere collateral damage too. It’s taking forever but those dutch, belgium and danish F16s are being send over, and then some. UK sent long range, France too. All the former at least are considering to allow Ukraine to attack targets inside Russia, willing to call Putin's bluff a little more, taking a risk. Germany has deep pockets but keeps drawing lines, no targets inside Russia so no Taurus for Ukraine. At this point not allowing Ukraine to attack targets in Russia is setting them up for an impossible task with only defeat as outcome.

Recently a bunch of explosives were found buried near another major gas pipe in Germany, the German far-right is connected to Russia, Germany’s economy is still trying to recover from the major damage Russia has done. Germany and the rest of EU is practically already at war with Russia, it's just that they let the Ukrainians do the actual fighting and that’s not working out too well atm for Ukraine and thus potentially EU. It’s not a proxy war at Far-away-i-stan though, it’s at the border. Maybe we should try harder to win instead of letting Russia gain territory and move the front line closer.

Strange strategy that is… letting an enemy that threatens to end you if you don’t let them murder your neighbors come closer because you don’t want to piss them off too much in hopes they don’t murder you too. I didn’t vote for that.

Nukes, long range missiles or carpet bombing, it's not that different for the people dying. Dead is dead. The difference between Rotterdam and Amsterdam is the first has all modern architecture because conventional bombs works just fine to destroy cities. I don’t fear Putin’s nukes any more than Genghis Khan’s flaming cats and birds. By the time half of Germany is nuked Moscow and St. Petersburg would have an existential crisis and Russia would be defeated. Maybe after WW2 they should take one for the team, j/k bad joke.

EU defense ministers meeting to talk about Ukraine and allowing Ukraine to strike targets in Russia

The EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, has called on countries to weigh their concerns about escalating tensions with Russia against Ukraine's right to self-defense.

He emphasized that Kyiv had the right to use Western arms to strike inside Russia.

"According with the law of war, it is perfectly possible and there is no contradiction.

"I could retaliate, or I could fight against the one who fights against me from his territory," Borrell said at the start of a meeting with European Union defense ministers.

"You have to balance the risk of escalation and the need for Ukrainians to defend."

The calls came after NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Monday that "the time had come" for allies to reconsider their restrictions, especially as Russia is pounding the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv from its own territory.

Click to expand...

Sounds very reasonable. Putin might think otherwise but f him.

”In an announcement following a meeting of defense ministers in Brussels, the ministers said the bloc intended to support Ukraine "for as long as it takes and as intensely as needed," with the EU planning to use "all tools at its disposal."

It’s mostly about this situation, Kharkiv, 30km from Russian border, population 1.4 mil. Putin claimed he doesn’t want it, yet it’s under attack. If Ukraine isn’t allowed to hit targets inside Russia, Putin will continue to terrorize it from Russian and Ukrainian soil.

“Belgium’s pledge on Tuesday to send the first batch of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine this year comes with a clear warning to Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy: Don’t fly them in Russian territory.”

Reminds of an old joke that was popular decades years ago: why did the Belgian plane crash? It ran out of extension cord.



Not many who are willing to give up their Patriot systems. The idea is that NL provides the core components and with the help and components of others puts together a few complete systems and provide at least 1 complete system ASAP.

Sativied said:

EU defense ministers meeting to talk about Ukraine and allowing Ukraine to strike targets in Russia

Borrell tells EU defense ministers not to fear escalation with Russia – DW – 05/28/2024

p.dw.com

Sounds very reasonable. Putin might think otherwise but f him.

”In an announcement following a meeting of defense ministers in Brussels, the ministers said the bloc intended to support Ukraine "for as long as it takes and as intensely as needed," with the EU planning to use "all tools at its disposal."

It’s mostly about this situation, Kharkiv, 30km from Russian border, population 1.4 mil. Putin claimed he doesn’t want it, yet it’s under attack. If Ukraine isn’t allowed to hit targets inside Russia, Putin will continue to terrorize it from Russian and Ukrainian soil.
View attachment 5396110

Kharkiv plans to build “underground town” amid constant Russian attacks - Euromaidan Press

Ukraine seeks investors for Kharkiv's proposed "underground town", which will have essential facilities like schools, medical institutions, and shopping areas, as the city grapples with the persistent threat of Russian attacks.

euromaidanpress.com

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i think it time to take the gloves off. Seems they're are a couple of countries that have taken them off notably Sweden, and i think one more for now. It also seems that other countries may follow. UA need to keep an eye on that northen border and get it protected. 4 Patriot system and a couple of mobel IRIS T system would prolly do the trick, but it won't solve it. I also found this:


even Macron and the UK are thinking about doing it......

BudmanTX said:

i think it time to take the gloves off. Seems they're are a couple of countries that have taken them off notably Sweden, and i think one more for now. It also seems that other countries may follow. UA need to keep an eye on that northen border and get it protected. 4 Patriot system and a couple of mobel IRIS T system would prolly do the trick, but it won't solve it. I also found this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795541474534097032

even Macron and the UK are thinking about doing it......

Click to expand...

It's ridiculous that they have been prevented from hitting militarily important targets inside Russia with donated western weapons. DIY was a big fan of knocking out such targets especially rail bridges to impeded Russia supplying it's forward positions. How much better off would Ukraine be if they had been allowed to hit Pootin where it hurts and been given more weapons in a timely manner instead of being held back.

Thanks for nothing GOP!