War

Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
sure sure 30 years to just buy from somewhere else? nice "experts" you got there




netherlands.mid.ru

Economic cooperation - Embassy of the Russian Federation in the Netherlands

netherlands.mid.ru

Holland has a population of 17.3mio whereas Germany has 83,4mio ppl.
And yet you import so massively from Russia even surpassing other lands easily that are way way more populous than you.

All things considered on a per-capita basis Holland is about ~~3 times more dependant on Russia than us.
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Are you conveniently comparing trade in general with gas dependence? Trading medicine and agricultural machines for vodka and rubles isn’t quite the same as being dependent on Russia‘s gas to keep the lights and heaters on. There’s little to any dependence in our trade with Russia, won’t change a thing for the average Joe. Obviously regular trade will be decreased a lot by the current sanctions, it’s the gas supply, 300million usd per day, that’s one the table now. Germany depends more on it than any other EU country and more than a lot of those east bloc countries combined. Spare me whaboutisms, own it, do something about it.

Germany imports roughly 10x more gas from Russia than NL does while the population is only 5x as high. 15% of gas use in NL is from Russia, in Germany it’s over 50%. We export gas to Germany and several other eu countries and switzerland… While in Germany a quarter of households is being connected to natural gas, increasing its dependence on Russian gas to 70% of total consumption, subsidized, NL is unhooking the same number of households from gas, replacing it with proper renewable energy instead of some cheap - heavily criticized - cheap way to replace oil/coal. By the time Germany will be finished implementing gas, we won’t be using it anymore for anything essential.

And no, 20-30 years for a proper energy transition, not to patch the problem.
 
Mr_X

Mr_X

Well-Known Member
i am curious about the future potential events of nuclear war and if our technology is advanced enough to detect and shoot down ballistic and cruise missiles carrying warheads and our leadership and decision making in the department of defense. is america's department of defense organized enough to stop incoming missiles?
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
0potato0 said:
I am not but YOU and i mean most of you on this forum prefer to live in an echo chamber and circle jerk each other. Me presenting different view on how the war is going is going straight to nr 10 on the list

>>>
Click to expand...
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/brave-new-world-of-putin-an-article-by-the-propaganda-publication-ria-novosti-which-was-to-be-published-after-the-occupation-of-ukraine/
^this proves everything you have said, are saying, or will say is fucking russian propaganda horseshit...EVERYTHING, so there is no need to listen to you further...ignored...you have nothing of value to contribute now...there is NO defending rank imperialism...which is EXACTLY what i said fucking putin was doing. attempting to resurrect the fucking USSR... good motherfucking luck
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Are you conveniently comparing trade in general with gas dependence? Trading medicine and agricultural machines for vodka and rubles isn’t quite the same as being dependent on Russia‘s gas to keep the lights and heaters on. There’s little to any dependence in our trade with Russia, won’t change a thing for the average Joe. Obviously regular trade will be decreased a lot by the current sanctions, it’s the gas supply, 300million usd per day, that’s one the table now. Germany depends more on it than any other EU country and more than a lot of those east bloc countries combined. Spare me whaboutisms, own it, do something about it.

Germany imports roughly 10x more gas from Russia than NL does while the population is only 5x as high. 15% of gas use in NL is from Russia, in Germany it’s over 50%. We export gas to Germany and several other eu countries and switzerland… While in Germany a quarter of households is being connected to natural gas, increasing its dependence on Russian gas to 70% of total consumption, subsidized, NL is unhooking the same number of households from gas, replacing it with proper renewable energy instead of some cheap - heavily criticized - cheap way to replace oil/coal. By the time Germany will be finished implementing gas, we won’t be using it anymore for anything essential.

And no, 20-30 years for a proper energy transition, not to patch the problem.
Click to expand...
The way you explains it, honestly sounds like the Russian are blackmailing for ww2.....I could be wrong...js
 
Crumpetlicker

Crumpetlicker

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
just counting the numbers, it's almost half of the world's population that support this war. or, at least, don't condemn it...
now remember the speeches that said - whoever cooperates with the aggressor should also be sanctioned....
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My question to you then is who are these sanctions really going to hurt? Not Putin, not the oligarchs, not the independently wealthy, this will hurt the proletariat and they do not deserve this. I will say categorically I do not support these sanctions. Sanctions will drive up the price of everything everywhere. All this shit is going to be passsed onto us, the workers of the world. We will have to bail them out on both sides. East and West. The sanctions might seem like a good idea but they are a false economy as far as the little man goes. This means price gouging and wage stagnation and a return of the coalition government here in Australia who were about to be voted out. As we know the encumbent hardly ever gets voted out in wartime. Talk about a kick in the face for the battlers of this world.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
A

What we are witnessing now is new form of warfare, economic strangulation.

This really is a war that counts big time, Syria Iran Afghanistan Iraq mean/are nothing in comparison.
This war is really based on economics in that if you can't pay for your bullets, you lose
Simple.
And Russia is penniless for all intents & purposes.

This is also a war of economic systems & shows the true Power of Capitalism. (are you watching China?)

This war economically will destroy Russia & the population will be allowed only the basics for awhile, like potatoes & lot's & lot's of vodka to numb the reality that their way of life as they knew it is over.

Tough shit

Ukraine will build back
Russia?
Sure they will in time but the damage is done,
They have become the #1 hated country on the planet & there's going to be big changes politically
That is guaranteed (bye Vlad)
Click to expand...
Thanks Jimi

You are describing 21st century statecraft and politics better than I.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Germany also have moved away from coal, part of the reason the gas from Russia was important.
Click to expand...
Are moving*. Still over a quarter of electricity generated by coal, a quarter of homes heated using oil. The reason to choose for more gas from Russia is simply cause it was a cheap and easy way to reduce carbon emission on the short term. Once implemented however it lasts decades. People here are paying tens of thousands to rebuild their homes to become completely gas free. Other countries nearby have similar policies to reduce the use and production of hydrocarbons, efforts that are sabotaged by Germany increasing their dependence on gas, cause wind farms kill birds and nuclear powerplants results in funny looking babies. It’s hard to convince people of the need to go green if that means ditching an energy source a neighboring country considers a green alternative

They are seriously considering changing their opinion on nuclear power plants, delaying the phasing out of current ones. The whole idea of replacing coal and oil with another fossile fuel was just dumb and now turns out to be a very expensive mistake. Useless pipeline that won’t be used anytime soon. Which is good, cause eventually it would have been used to transport cheap gray dirty hydrogen from Russia instead of buying quality clean green hydrogen from neighbors. But hey, let’s spend 100billion on military…

997E6D1D-214D-4861-A301-38B39D462593.jpeg

The Dutch gas fields were supposed to close permanently this year, due to earthquakes a few years earlier than already planned because of carbon emission reduction goals. It became recently already clear they will remain open cause Germany needs more gas, but if Russia would kill the supply we’ll notice negative effects partly because we are obliged to sell our own to Germany. 3% of gas consumption in Germany is the same as the total consumption in one of the Baltic states that relies for nearly 100% on Russian gas. So yeah, Germany together with Italy hold the cards when it comes to making Moscow‘s income really hurt.

BudmanTX said:
The way you explains it, honestly sounds like the Russian are blackmailing for ww2.....I could be wrong...js
Click to expand...
Well like I said I don’t think it translates to leverage for Russia in the current situation. Germany will not be blackmailed by Russia to hold back in helping Ukraine or anything like that. I hold them in much higher regard than the east german dude above. I doubt they would have stopped (for now) with the new pipeline so fast if Biden hadn’t been pushing them for a while though. The reason to get it from Russia is cause it’s available, cheap and “Russia has shown to be a reliable provider even during the heights of the cold war”. The reason for being reliable is simple, it’s a whole lot of money going to Russia. Putin can threaten to cut off gas all he wants, it would come at a great loss to him. The more damage he’s doing in Ukraine, the more calls in Europe to become completely independent of Russian energy.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Crumpetlicker said:
My question to you then is who are these sanctions really going to hurt? Not Putin, not the oligarchs, not the independently wealthy, this will hurt the proletariat and they do not deserve this. I will say categorically I do not support these sanctions. Sanctions will drive up the price of everything everywhere. All this shit is going to be passsed onto us, the workers of the world. We will have to bail them out on both sides. East and West. The sanctions might seem like a good idea but they are a false economy as far as the little man goes. This means price gouging and wage stagnation and a return of the coalition government here in Australia who were about to be voted out. As we know the encumbent hardly ever gets voted out in wartime. Talk about a kick in the face for the battlers of this world.
Click to expand...
I read a study that showed although individuals would oftentimes be wrong, collective decisions (voting in elections) were much more likely to be right. It was a while ago. I don't know if I can find a link to it but I'll look. How certain are you that you are right and the majority is wrong?
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Are you conveniently comparing trade in general with gas dependence? Trading medicine and agricultural machines for vodka and rubles isn’t quite the same as being dependent on Russia‘s gas to keep the lights and heaters on. There’s little to any dependence in our trade with Russia, won’t change a thing for the average Joe. Obviously regular trade will be decreased a lot by the current sanctions, it’s the gas supply, 300million usd per day, that’s one the table now. Germany depends more on it than any other EU country and more than a lot of those east bloc countries combined. Spare me whaboutisms, own it, do something about it.

Germany imports roughly 10x more gas from Russia than NL does while the population is only 5x as high. 15% of gas use in NL is from Russia, in Germany it’s over 50%. We export gas to Germany and several other eu countries and switzerland… While in Germany a quarter of households is being connected to natural gas, increasing its dependence on Russian gas to 70% of total consumption, subsidized, NL is unhooking the same number of households from gas, replacing it with proper renewable energy instead of some cheap - heavily criticized - cheap way to replace oil/coal. By the time Germany will be finished implementing gas, we won’t be using it anymore for anything essential.

And no, 20-30 years for a proper energy transition, not to patch the problem.
Click to expand...
Sativied said:
Are moving*. Still over a quarter of electricity generated by coal, a quarter of homes heated using oil. The reason to choose for more gas from Russia is simply cause it was a cheap and easy way to reduce carbon emission on the short term. Once implemented however it lasts decades. People here are paying tens of thousands to rebuild their homes to become completely gas free. Other countries nearby have similar policies to reduce the use and production of hydrocarbons, efforts that are sabotaged by Germany increasing their dependence on gas, cause wind farms kill birds and nuclear powerplants results in funny looking babies. It’s hard to convince people of the need to go green if that means ditching an energy source a neighboring country considers a green alternative

They are seriously considering changing their opinion on nuclear power plants, delaying the phasing out of current ones. The whole idea of replacing coal and oil with another fossile fuel was just dumb and now turns out to be a very expensive mistake. Useless pipeline that won’t be used anytime soon. Which is good, cause eventually it would have been used to transport cheap gray dirty hydrogen from Russia instead of buying quality clean green hydrogen from neighbors. But hey, let’s spend 100billion on military…

View attachment 5094604

The Dutch gas fields were supposed to close permanently this year, due to earthquakes a few years earlier than already planned because of carbon emission reduction goals. It became recently already clear they will remain open cause Germany needs more gas, but if Russia would kill the supply we’ll notice negative effects partly because we are obliged to sell our own to Germany. 3% of gas consumption in Germany is the same as the total consumption in one of the Baltic states that relies for nearly 100% on Russian gas. So yeah, Germany together with Italy hold the cards when it comes to making Moscow‘s income really hurt.


Well like I said I don’t think it translates to leverage for Russia in the current situation. Germany will not be blackmailed by Russia to hold back in helping Ukraine or anything like that. I hold them in much higher regard than the east german dude above. I doubt they would have stopped (for now) with the new pipeline so fast if Biden hadn’t been pushing them for a while though. The reason to get it from Russia is cause it’s available, cheap and “Russia has shown to be a reliable provider even during the heights of the cold war”. The reason for being reliable is simple, it’s a whole lot of money going to Russia. Putin can threaten to cut off gas all he wants, it would come at a great loss to him. The more damage he’s doing in Ukraine, the more calls in Europe to become completely independent of Russian energy.
Click to expand...
You are obviously a German hater, which is evident by your constant swipes into that direction, which are uncalled for and reveal your nationalist BS attitude.
25 years ago I drove monthly to Holland, one of my friends in Groeningen told me how hated germans are over there. He cited a report in ur national TV that enquired about this form of discriminatory resentment.

I could as well elaborate on ur notority having to rely on atomic power - it is NOT a Green idea, nothing is 100% safe forever. Not even the super-techically Japanese could pull that off. Given how long radiation persists and we already had 2 major catastrophy's in a only a few decades, how can you downplay that in such an infantile way?

Seriously the Greens in Netherlands have atomics ob their agenda?!? Ur most likely a conservative, otherwise it's unfathomly to me how u can dismiss so many greed side-aspects.

You basically only seem to care about global warming because the rising sea-levels are most detrimental to ur own cause.

That said, attitudes change over times and replacing the now cold reactor cores wouldnt take too long. It wouldnt even take 20 years to build up several power plants right from scratch....

And yes, all trade is important when it comes to economically weaken an aggressor. Otherwise it's pointless... and ofc necessary items would serve ofc more to justify exceptions or do you want that things break down here critically and we hurt our own position more than them?
 
0potato0

0potato0

Well-Known Member
Ukrainians leaving everything behind even perfectly good tanks

t.me

Intel Slava Z

The servicemen of the People's Militia, continuing to move deeper into the territory, occupied the village of Shirokiy. As a result of clashes, the Ukrainian armed formations hurriedly left the checkpoint, leaving provisions and personal belongings. As evidence of a recent battle, a padded...
t.me t.me
 
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