Variety Grow - Perpetual, "Mini" ScrOG's, DWC in a Cabinet (First Timer)

jsgamber

Active Member
From my opening post cloning is one of those things that I expected to fail miserably at...and I have. Let's say I'm really good at making compost!! :mrgreen:

Thank goodness Larry OG is here thriving away giving me the perfect opportunity to practice whilst all the other girls play catch up. S/he (I'm so confused) not only gave me my first 3 cuttings, the next week I cut 7 more and then during Monday's water change I took another one. Of those 11 cuttings 3 are still alive. I even put KK into early service ("work for me bitch" :D ) and took a lower branch for a cutting and that one is (hopefully) still alive. That's the current status....so WTF?

Lot's of different things I know have gone wrong, but it all comes down to Noobs: If you fail to plan... plan to fail! a MUST read post for everyone (and me for a second time). Anyhoo I dove in head first without really knowing how little planning I did. The clone rez cooler wasn't done so the water was basking in all 250W of MH glory. Doors not on the cab, ventillation exhaust not set up....yada yada yada.

Add to it a busy week PLUS I referee youth soccer and I spent all weekend doing that. I ref'd 8 games total for a total mileage of 19.3 miles!! I have a new Moto Droid and I downloaded a GPS tracker app which tracked my entire run. I found out that my top speed is 11.3 mph! Not bad for a 50 year old dude huh? :bigjoint: Needless to say Sunday night I came home WORKED, every muscle screaming! I looked in on the girls, saw the clone carnage, said "Fuck It" and went to sleep to deal with the next day. Soooooooo....

Monday's water change. The clone water smelled terrible!!! It started the week off pH 6.0 no nutes and throughout climbed a bit and I'd bring it back down. But with the weekend neglect the final pH was 8.3!! All but 3 had stems that looked like cooked spinach and one of those was turning. After emptying the water, I filled the tub with hot soapy water (Dawn detergent, they use it on rescue animals in oil spills), pulled apart the tubes from the stones and threw those in as well and scrubbed off all the slime. I rinsed everything very well and then ran the air stones in clear water and a drop of bleach to help get the soap out of the stones. I did a second bubbling in plain water to clear the bleach. After drying I wiped everything tub, tubes, stones with 91% alcohol and let that evaporate completely. That should take care of any germs and such. ;) I got the tub back together with new water. I recut the 3 survivors and then took one new cutting each from Larry and KK. After the water change (I did the mums too) I put together another cooler for the clone rez so now all water is cool and in the dark.

So here's the planning problem I encountered. I didn't go back and re-read the differences between clones in rockwool and trays vs. clones in DWC. I think I remember a lot more about the rockwool vs. the DWC. Sadly I haven't gone back to study (I will shortly) but before I do, here is what I think is wrong:

  • Why are the cut ends turning into slime? The short answer? I believe too much moisture.
  • But this is DWC I thought? DWC works great to supply roots with water and nutrients. Woody stems are NOT! We are hoping that the capilary veins in the stem can draw enough moisture (but not nutes since only roots can assimillate/digest/convert) to sustain the plant until it can reprogram itself to grow new roots. Too much moisture to a woody stem just makes it rot.
So as of last night I changed a few things. I had two 4" air stones cranking with the water level about 2" below the bottom of the netpots. There was so much spray coming off the water surface that the underside of the rez lid was soaked with water dripping off everywhere!

Now the water level is 4" below and I've turned down the air so there is now an ultra fine mist coming off the water surface. The next morning check showed lightly damp underside (dewey) with nothing dripping off any more. Hopefully the daytime went well for them today.

Gotta get going home from work, get food and get back to my ventillation issue.

Hey all you subscribers, give a quck shout out to let me know you are still following along. I'm here to make all the mistakes so you don't have to. wahahahahahaha

peace
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
I'm still here. My cloning is slow. I get them but I need to get better too. I'm gonna do some practicing. Too much moisture too often makes sense for my failure in the aero-cloner. I'm a soil guy so hydro is a research for me still. You'll get it. Never ending mods huh?
Daniels
 

SensiStan

Well-Known Member
Haha ME TOO my new HID's are killing temps i had no idea they got This Hot lol. Dont think of it as a sad story gamber you strike me as the guy who will get it wrong a few times but ur dead set on getting it right. ppl like u end up legends in ther area of expertise so keep at it is all i can say. I have no clue on hydro cloning either im a lazy soil grower :bigjoint: iv also had to make constant adaptations to my room it now looks nothing like it did when i first started but its funcional :) (after loads of annoying effort - i'm allergic to effort i'm a stoner u see .... )
 

SensiStan

Well-Known Member
Actually on second thought maybe i can help your cloning issues.. Try cloning them in rockwool and using a little hydroton in you netpots(im already assuming u use cloning gels, humidity domes and all that other crap :D)
 

jsgamber

Active Member
Hey SS,

Well guess what. I assumed wrong! Re-read all of my DWC cloning threads and the biggest argument was water level. However the bounds of argment were no more than 1" below the stem and as much as having 1" of stem IN the water. So my next supposition is; I kept trying to "revive" one batch of clones at the same time introducing new clones in the same rez. Now I'm thinking the dying clones were contaminating the water.

Right now I have only two clones running (one Larry and one KK). One is thriving and showing new growth and the other is drooping but also shows new growth at the nodes. At this point the clones are running with water level 3/4" below the stem and all bubblers going full steam! After 5 days though no visible roots.

My problem now is that Larry OG keeps outgrowing the cab! What a fucked up problem that is. :mrgreen: KK is finally taking off and is almost as big as Larry OG when I took her first cuttings. Blueberry is getting taller. The two other brought home clones are holding their own.

I need to do a water change. However, I've been on a tear to get my cabinet buttoned up. Most of my disasters come from being "behind" and having to build something on the fly to catch up. Maybe that's why I haven't yet built out a flowering chamber...I'm playing reverse psychology with a plant, and they are winning! :eyesmoke:

I've rebuilt my cool tubes. Sorry Daniel but I've ditchd the coat hanger. :mrgreen: I wasn't hip on my bulb hanging inside the tube banging into the glass of the tube, especially during earthquakes. Now the bulb and socket are now mounted solidly. I also received my 430W Son Agro and ballast. I wired it up and fired it up in the living room to test....DAMN It's bright!

I'm also routing all the ducting in the back of the cab. I designed, built and installed a custom register box for the ducting of the passive air input. It came out great and I have pics! I'm getting doors on right, latches, hinges, etc and making sure they are air/light proof.

I spent a good portion of the day running around looking for more computer fans. Online stores just kick butt. Even at Fry's, their cheapest fan over 80 CFM was $14 and that drew 80.54 CFM! The Ultra Kaze 133CFM fans cost me $9.99 at new egg and they are $15.99 local. I ended up getting eight of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185060. They are $2 cheaper each, 20 CFM less and half the dB and the shipping was $2.99 if I order 1 or $20. I just love NewEgg!!

More to do and more to come.

peace
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
Yea but at 25mm thick, they are a little anorexic for me.:twisted: I can't wait to see the vent system. I'm along way from earthquakes, but that makes sense. Keep it up. You'll get it dialed in.:eyesmoke:
Daniels
 

chainseeker

Well-Known Member
Gamer how's it going man. I just spent 1/2 an hr reading your grow and build plus posting on your build. Great job I love diy it's so rewarding especially with a hobby as cool as this. I hate to spam but you r more than welcome to come over and check out my cab. I could use someone with your experience and creativeness to help me out sometimes. I bet that 133 with an added speed control would be perfect. Too loud turn it down too hot turn it up. Actually why not go a little bigger just to be sure and with the speed control turned down I bet they are quieter than a smaller fan running full speed. Glad u posted that link I think I'm going to get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001&cm_re=fans_120mm-_-35-213-001-_-Product with a speed control for my new cab. Anyway hope the cloning gets better for ya! Sub'd
Chain
 

jsgamber

Active Member
I'm still here. My cloning is slow. I get them but I need to get better too. I'm gonna do some practicing. Too much moisture too often makes sense for my failure in the aero-cloner. I'm a soil guy so hydro is a research for me still. You'll get it. Never ending mods huh?
Daniels
Building and modding. Modding and building. Let's hope it never stops! :) This is too much fun!

Still her bro! Bangin my head against the wall right next to you tryin to get these temps right! Hang in there man
Hang in there too man. I gotta take time to come check your stuff out.

Yea but at 25mm thick, they are a little anorexic for me.:twisted: I can't wait to see the vent system. I'm along way from earthquakes, but that makes sense. Keep it up. You'll get it dialed in.:eyesmoke:
Daniels
Same Mfgr though! :) I think the "Ultra Kaze" is still the bomb and are staying in service for my cool tubes. These fans will be exhausting the cabs. I needed something a bit less so I don't blow away my humidity!! :)

Gamer how's it going man. I just spent 1/2 an hr reading your grow and build plus posting on your build. Great job I love diy it's so rewarding especially with a hobby as cool as this. I hate to spam but you r more than welcome to come over and check out my cab. I could use someone with your experience and creativeness to help me out sometimes. I bet that 133 with an added speed control would be perfect. Too loud turn it down too hot turn it up. Actually why not go a little bigger just to be sure and with the speed control turned down I bet they are quieter than a smaller fan running full speed. Glad u posted that link I think I'm going to get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001&cm_re=fans_120mm-_-35-213-001-_-Product with a speed control for my new cab. Anyway hope the cloning gets better for ya! Sub'd
Chain
Chainseeker welcome and thank you for the half-hour catching up. When I get a chance I'll stop by your grow. PLEASE come back and bug me if I don't post. You'll see why in a sec!! Regarding fans go back through my cab journal and find the link to the Skythe "Ultra Kaze" 120mm fan. It runs 3000rpm, 49dB and 133CFM, and excellent static pressure ratings! This fan does not whine so the 49dB is purely the sound of moving air! What I found is that by using 4" PVC for all my ducting, the air flow noise is cut by nearly 90%! Oh the best part, they are only $9.99 on NewEgg.

Ultimately I'll have all fans on automated speed control based on temp and humidity. But for now I don't have the $$'s, so it's ghetto for now. :blsmoke:
 

jsgamber

Active Member
My Plants need your help tonight. They have been out of their home for 2 nights. They need a water change and have to go back into there home. Please read how you can help!! :mrgreen:

Click on my Cabinet Grow link. I'm pulling an all nighter on it and will be posting progress shots throughout.

I'm just looking for some motivation from you to keep me going. :joint:
 

jsgamber

Active Member
If you havent' yet checked out all the work I did this past weekend on the cabinet head over to my cabinet build for LOT's of new pics.

Today is water change day along with cutting new clones. Larry OG is about 5" taller than the inside of the cab so need to give her a haircut. I also plan on taking some more cuttings of KK.

Today I trashed Purple Extreme (II). I guess this strain is not condusive to my environment. Too bad because I like the purps. I kept thinking it would make it since there were plenty of green leaves. It's funny though that a plant can just die before their leaves turn color. I was going to try and re-cut again, but discovered the leaves were crispy and turning to dust and still green.

Water change stats: Mothers final reading was 6.25pH at 68*F. And that was with no adjustments at all during last week! Clones final reading was 7.8ph at 71*F. Too many clones dieing and leaving their rotting material behind.

Next is my cloning update...

peace
 

jsgamber

Active Member
As of now I haven't been able to get a single strike on my clones. Environment is a big factor. However, an even more important factor to successful clones is making sure you are cutting them right.

I'm an idiot. I've read countless threads on cloning. Apparantly I wasn't paying attention to the text and ony looking at the pics. I went back one last time to Al B. Fuct's post on clones in rockwool. First off I'm not happy with cloning gels. They don't stick and get washed off within hours of putting new cuttings in. So I wanted to experiment with cloning powders. I heard the benefit is the powder will turn into a paste and sticks much better. The big mistake was I was taking my cuts from just above the node rather than just below the node. I don't know why I didn't realize that roots grow from a node point and not just some random spot along the stem, at least early on in their age. I never once had a node even close to water since the lowest node was always 1 1/2" to 2" above the surface. The good news is that the clones from last week survived the whole week with no roots. However the stems under were getting skinny and today both clones bent over. I could have tried to rescue them but I wanted clean water and a clean slate, in addition I was making 16 new cuttings and needed them out! :blsmoke:

So this time, all clones are dipped in rooting powder and there is at least one node and sometimes two nodes under the disks near the water. With the spashing water, the paste has formed and it grips really well to the stem. Hopefully it stays on without getting rinsed away.

So far after two hours, I don't have a single droopy plant. That always happened in the past...fingers crossed.



Here are some pics just after the cloning.

Hopefully tomorrow, I'll be good to go body wise to finish the cabinet. This is my fist time using "Green Light Rooting Hormone"

pic1 - New batch of clones, 10 of Larry OG and 6 of KK. Clone rez is running 5.50pH @ 72*F and no nutes. Foreground are Larry OG cuttings. Backgrond are KK.

pic2 - KK after giving up 6 cuttings

pic3 - Larry OG after giving up 10 cuttings with nice big thick stems.

2010-06-01 23.07.03.jpg2010-06-01 23.07.47.jpg2010-06-01 23.07.33.jpg
 

jsgamber

Active Member
Hey guys/gals what's up? I feel bad not posting regularly and keeping you guys on the edge of your seats. :P But I've been kicking ass on this project (while keeping up with the shit life keeps throwing my way). I've been doing a lot of work on the cabinet trying to get the first flowering chamber set up. I've got some definite cooling issues I'm going to have to solve before going to flower but I'll save that for the Cabinet Journal.

I've got lot's of pics of the girls which I'll be throwing up in pictorial form. I'll fill in the blanks as I go. But first let me give a current status.

Out of the 16 clones I took last batch 5 of them rooted!! I did it!!!! Despite the fact that I ignored them trying to get the cabinet done, didn't check their water, or anything for 3 or 4 days. I just let nature take it's course. Last night I finally found my camera (damn kids snuck it from me) so just before going to bed I took a few shots just holding the camera up taking quick shots, I took one shot under the hood and almost fainted when I saw roots!!! It's like they exploded!

CIMG0198.jpgCIMG0199.jpgCIMG0200.jpg


This morning I was able to get a water change done. I've shifted plants around a bit. KK has finally grown up so we should see some good clones from her. Larry OG has filled out again and is hitting the roof so it's time for more cuttings. The two of them are in the same res 120% nutes at 5.8pH using ice bottles to keep water temps to 67*.

DJ's Blueberry still looks wierd and isn't growing much but still looks like it can take off any time. Cherry AK47 is going strong and is about 2 weeks from taking cuttings. They have been moved into the other res with the new rooted cuttings (4 of them). I have the water set at 50% strength and it too is at 5.8pH. Flower time and screens aren't far behind. :mrgreen:

I'll be setting up a third reservoir to root my next batch of clones. That's what I'll be doing hopefully tonight but eyelids are fading.

Pics in following post...







peace
 

jsgamber

Active Member
Shots of the clones.
CIMG0116.jpgCIMG0117.jpgCIMG0118.jpgCIMG0119.jpgCIMG0120.jpg


I thought this one was a gonner.
CIMG0121.jpg



Humidity Concerns
CIMG0149.jpgCIMG0150.jpg


Larry OG and KK
CIMG0152.jpg


More clone shots
CIMG0187.jpg

I think I might have a mold issue?
CIMG0192.jpgCIMG0194.jpg


Final shot of the clones.
CIMG0197.jpg
 

Adosbulc

Well-Known Member
hey dude think you could take a few more pictures of your cabinet with everything in it? i have a smaller cabinet, about 4x2x6. one shelf is going to be a scrog. The scrog screen is going to be 4x2 (exact dimensions of the shelf) with a piece of glass dividing the screen in half lengthwise (screen is now divided into 2x2) so I can flower & scrog 2 plants on one shelf at different times..most likely a month apart. This way I can have 6-8 cfls on each side, staggered heights but still benefiting the other side of the shelf. on another shelf I'll have 1 plants vegging, and attempt to take clones from the veg right before i change the light to flower. I would probably use 2-4 cfls for vegging. any pics of the interior/layout of yours would help just so I can figure out the rest of my design


nice work on your cabinet & dwc scrog, read through all of it, hookin up a rep for it
 

jsgamber

Active Member
hey dude think you could take a few more pictures of your cabinet with everything in it? i have a smaller cabinet, about 4x2x6. one shelf is going to be a scrog. The scrog screen is going to be 4x2 (exact dimensions of the shelf) with a piece of glass dividing the screen in half lengthwise (screen is now divided into 2x2) so I can flower & scrog 2 plants on one shelf at different times..most likely a month apart. This way I can have 6-8 cfls on each side, staggered heights but still benefiting the other side of the shelf. on another shelf I'll have 1 plants vegging, and attempt to take clones from the veg right before i change the light to flower. I would probably use 2-4 cfls for vegging. any pics of the interior/layout of yours would help just so I can figure out the rest of my design


nice work on your cabinet & dwc scrog, read through all of it, hookin up a rep for it
Hey Adosbulc. Thanks for the rep and welcome!

Did you read through my cabinet build journal (in my sig). The cabinet is a saga unto itself. :) Since there is so much work to do between building and growing, I chose to do seperate journals.

Right now I have 3 reservoirs in the mother chamber and that fills it up. I have updated pics that I need to put up (you gave me the motivation) so you can see better. I'll be using the exact same type reservoirs for flowering except each one will have it's own screen attached right to the lid of the res rather than one big screen. This let's me take each one out of the cabinet and do maintenance work. It's worked beautiful for water changes, as well as hair cuts because it's easy to spin the res around and see the whole plant. The plan for my grow is perpetual so each res represents a two week period of growth leading to a harvest every two weeks.

Read through my other journal and let me know if you have any Q's. This is my first time growing but I'm a long time DIY'er. Looking back at my home projects I've done just about everything (major) you could do to build a house except pour concrete (framing, drywall, plumbing, electrical, tile, brick, custom cabinets (nice ones) ;), just to name a few) and I've certainly dug my fair share of ditches. :) My wife's entire family is in construction and they think I'm pretty good for a systems guy.

Here's 3 reservoirs in one chamber:

CIMG0214.jpg
 

jsgamber

Active Member
Larry OG is too tall for the cabinet so it's time to take some more cuttings and do some long overdue plant maintenance. It seems I've developed a bit of a powdery mildew problem along the way. Fortunately one of the solutions is to cut away the affected areas which is what we're gonna do.

So what about the last clones? Well it seems that during my testing of my 430W chamber (just below), I must have overheated my clones. You'll see some sorry looking plants below, but I still have one that has pretty solid roots. DJ's Blueberry has suffered a lot since I got it over 8 weeks ago. The roots are very slimy with the exception of a few good roots. I've chopped it and am trying to re-root it. At this time it's not looking good but all the new clones are going through their 24 hour post cut droop so who knows.

KK has some root issues as well. So I decided to experiment with removing some of the brown slimy pieces. I have noticed that my veg nutes tend to stain the roots almost the same color as the rot. I did some test pulls on Larry OG's roots and nothing would come off in my hand. I just used the same amount of force on KK's roots and most of it just fell away. It looks like she's got about 10 really solid looking tap roots so hopefully the tap roots will "re-feather" with new white roots.

Out of the 6 clones from last batch, I had the aforementioned heat issue. They still have healthy roots underneith (just no leaves up top) so this just give me an opportunity to see the limits of the plant. ;) Yeah that's it, I meant to destroy them for "scientific reasearch".


Here's some pics:

Larry OG and KK just before hair cuts.
CIMG0202.jpgCIMG0203.jpg


Powder mildew (?). Fortunately most of it is on older fan leaves which will be trimmed off with the clones.
CIMG0204.jpgCIMG0205.jpg

DJ's Blueberry's last stand. Not only do they look gross they smell bad too.
CIMG0206.jpgCIMG0207.jpg

KK after a "root cleaning". Notice the tap roots are solid. The brown tint is what the nutes do. The dark brown is rot.
CIMG0208.jpg


Larry OG and KK after hair cuts. I used rubbing alcohol on a paper towel on the branches and stems to wipe off any mildew and sterilize everything.
CIMG0210.jpgCIMG0212.jpg

Mum's on the left, wannabe mums and older clones on the right, and brand new clone in the middle. Now to suffer through the 24 hour droop. I hate this part.
View attachment 999796

Pics just taken this morning (I did the cutting yesterday afternoon). Mums. They already have new growth (see below).
CIMG0215.jpg

The back right is Cherry AK-47. Nice growth and coming along. Front right is my healthy clone and the left side show's the hopefuls (from the heat issue).
CIMG0216.jpg

Random clone shots. DJ's Blueberry is the black shriveled up ball. But you never know. :)
CIMG0217.jpgCIMG0218.jpgCIMG0222.jpg

Another shot of Cherry AK-47.
CIMG0223.jpg

Cherry AK-47 roots in back and clone in the right front. You might be able to see roots in the left side pots as well.
CIMG0226.jpg

Some editting to show new growth from just last night.
CIMG0229.jpg



That's it for now...peace
 
Top