Vaccinations and the Swine Flu

When the Swine Flu was the HOT HOT HOT ISSUE OF THE MONTH for EVERY mass media outlet on planet Earth, I had several debates on the topic. I'll post two of them here. One I had with four med students (yeah they tried to gang rape me) and one I had with a different med student. I'll just post both here.

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The idea of vaccinations, in and of itself, is flawed. By vaccinating an individual (and a peoples, from a broader view) weakens the immune system. For example, vaccinating an individual annually for the flu will only undermine the individuals immune system's response. By injecting a vaccine into the blood stream of a human, an important part of the physical immune system is bypassed completely. An annual flu vaccine will break down the immune system.

While my view is the same on most vaccinations, I was referring specifically to the H1N1 vaccination in my comment. But to make a short comment, I would not get a vaccination against hepatitis or meningitis (while the meningitis vaccine is affective and has removed 95% of this illness, it has caused other autoimmune problems). The H1N1 vaccination is a loaded cocktail full of toxins that will break down your immune system. In case you know of ANY MD that is willing to publicly drink the additives/adjuvants that are contained in the vaccines recommended for a 6-year-old according to the US CDC, tell him/her there is a price-tag of $220,000 as of Oct. 1, 2009 (offer dates back to 2001). Obviously, no real MD would ever dare go near such a concoction - which is reflected by the makers of the H1N1 vaccine itself (vaccine creators reject the vaccine) and the specially-made additive/adjuvant-free vaccines made for special soldiers and the elite.

The contents of a vaccine recommended for a 6-year-old according to the US CDC:
Thimerosal (mercury), propylene glycol (this is anti-freeze), phenol (disinfectant dye), aluminum, benzethonium chloride (disinfectant), formaldehyde (a preservative and disinfectant), and more.

The H1N1 vaccine, most noticeably amongst other ingredients, contains an oil-based adjuvant called squalene (MF59 from Novartis). This is the same squalene (MF59 specifically) used in the anthrax "vaccinations" on soldiers during the gulf war - which was the cause of the cascade of reactions called Gulf War Syndrome (including Guillain-Barre syndrome).

My comment on vitamin D was referring specifically to the H1N1 virus...but to add on, there is a dearth of information on vitamin D and it is not surprising. Vitamin D activates the immune system to defend the body against invading microorganisms. Yes, vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium from the intestines (the healthy bones part) but it is not the sole benefit. It is vitamin D that allows the immune system to activate to fend off invading pathogens. Vitamin D also manages to balance the adaptive immune response and prevent inflammation (anti-microbial protein). I wanted to give a few simple tips to help protect oneself, which is why I had only written Vitamin D but I did not mean vitamin D is the sole cure-all.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to do; I figure with the wide-spread propaganda, I can present another view to Stewart. I would hope such strong and differing views can spark something in him to begin a search of his own as critical thinking is something we lack today.

I will try my best to keep this in the realm of health and medicine and not bring geopolitics into it but it is all tied very well together.
It seems many have forgotten the Swine Flu scare and vaccination propaganda from 1976. The Swine Flu Scare of 1976 saw more people killed by the vaccine than the actual virus itself (300 death claims from the swine flu vaccine and one death from the swine flu):
http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m7d10-CBS-60-Minutes-300-death-claims-from-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-only-one-death-from-flu

The nasal spray of the H1N1 vaccine has the live H1N1 virus in it. Any persons whos’ immune system is compromised will end up with the H1N1 vaccine – anyone near/around the person who took the nasal spray vaccine flu-mist who has weakened immune system may be infected with the H1N1 virus. While I hate the CDC and the FDA, judging from your comment on the FDA (“If it was approved by the FDA, it can't be bad&#8221: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/nasalspray_qa.htm
The back of the FluMist’s own package insert reads, “FluMist® recipients should avoid close contact with immunocompromised individuals for at least 21 days.”

Doctors are concerned the nasal spray can help spread the H1N1 virus rather than eliminate it:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/21212055/detail.html
If numbers are needed, the last report I’ve seen is from the Mayo Clinic and the it concluded that the odds of transmitting the virus after receiving the nasal spray are about 2.5 percent:
http://www.flixya.com/post/wap/971116/Nasal-Spray_Flu_Vaccine_Can_Make_You_Sick

“The warning is specifically directed toward those living in the same household with an immunocompromised person, but the on-going release of live viruses throughout the community may be a significant risk to everyone who has a weak, or weakened, immune system,” writes Tenpenny, pointing out that if one takes into account a plethora of health conditions that could be classified as contributing to immunodeficiency, as much as 60% of the entire population could be considered to be “chemically immunosuppressed.”
“An ever greater concern about FluMist is the contents within the vaccine. Each 0.5ml of the formula contains 10 6.5-7.5 particles of live, attenuated influenza virus. That means that between 10 million and 100 million viral particles will be forcefully injected into the nostrils when administered. The viral strain was developed by serial passage through “specific pathogen-free primary chick kidney cells” and then grown in “specific pathogen-free eggs.” That means that the culture media was free of pathogens that were specifically tested for, but not a culture that was necessarily “pathogen-free.” The risk that the vaccine may contain contaminant avian retroviruses still remains,” warns Tenpenny.
http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx
To add onto Dr. Tenpenny’s comments on retroviruses, lung specialist, Wolfgang Wodarg (he is also the chairman of the health committee in the German parliament and European Council), has come out to explain there is a risk of cancer from the H1N1 virus due to animal cells that are not tested (this is why it is injected with a very hot needle):
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2009/08/07/swine-flu-health-expert-warning/does-virus-vaccine-increase-risk-of-cancer.html##
Let me clarify on the vaccine concoction because I think some people misunderstood. That offer is an actual offer given by another MD. The point of the offer is to illustrate that even doctors themselves would not have any of those toxins put into their body. The CDC says there is no negative side effects from these additives/adjuvants but not a single MD is willing to publicly drink these toxins. With that said, I will begin to move into the creators of the vaccine (Baxter, Novartis, GSK and Sonofi-Aventis and AstroZeneca).
Squalene is a toxin (depending on how it is introduced to the body). Here is what the World Association for Vaccine Education has to say about Squalene (MF59 from Novartis):
[Squalene:C30H50 an Adjuvant
Too dangerous for human use, Squalene is not licensed for use in the United States. Oil adjuvants like squalene have been ordinarily used to inflict diseases in animals – for experimentation and study. According to anthrax vaccine expert Gary Matsumoto and other reliable sources, the US military used an unlicensed, experimental anthrax vaccination laced with squalene, with disastrous consequences, including Gulf War Sydrome. Chemical descriptions:
Unites States National Library of Medicine: PubChem
http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=638072
Toxicity:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed&term=%22Squalene%2ftoxicity%22[Mesh%20Terms%3anoexp

Adverse effects:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed&term=%22Squalene%2fadverse%20effects%22[Mesh%20Terms%3anoexpMust read:
Matsumoto, Gary. Vaccine A; The Covert Government Experiment That's Killing Our Soldiers – and Why GI's Are Only the First Victims. Basic Books, 2004.
Present in these vaccines:
Anthrax (experimental, used on military personnel)]
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/results.asp?sc=27
To further add to the last part (experimental anthrax vaccine), the government has admitted to using squalene (a banned substance) on our soldiers during the Gulf War:
http://www.chiroweb.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=31995
To read more about Gulf War Syndrome, check: http://www.autoimmune.com/newsrel15jul02.pdf
In addition, aluminum (aluminum hydroxide) is a neurotoxin. Here is a study from the Department of Ophthalmology and Program in Neuroscience of the University of British Columbia:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826
Doctors have been told by the government to watch for Guillain-Barre syndrome during the swine flu vaccination program in England due to its obvious links to Squalene:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/6038460/Doctors-told-to-watch-for-Guillain-Barre-syndrome-during-Swine-flu-vaccination-programme.html
Once again here is an article from the Telegraph titled (word for word) “People will die after swine flu vaccine – but it’s just coincidence”:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/6467984/People-will-die-after-swine-flu-vaccine---but-its-just-coincidence.html
Thimerosal is also a neurotoxin and no, all injections in New York will contain thimerosal:
http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=11108
Here is the question and answer from the government flu site. Though some manufacturers may not use thimerosal, the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines that FDA is licensing (approving) will:
http://answers.flu.gov/questions/4168
Thimerosal is banned around the world 20 years ago but not in the United States – due to the FDA and disinformation, while scientific research across the globe indicates ethylmercury (the form of mercury found in thimerosal causes brain damage, tubular necrosis, nervous system injury). I can provide more sources but the subject of Thimerosal is widely known and it does not take much time to find empirical evidence on it. I’d like to point out an example regarding the levels of thimerosal in vaccinations being “safe”. Vaccinations like the vaccine for Hepatitis B (but not limited to) contained as much as 12.5 micrograms of mercury per dose – that’s more than 100 times the EPA’s upper limit standard when administered to infants.
Here is a short introduction to Thimerosal in vaccines:
http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/080829_ThimerosalInVaccines_InconvenientReality_b.pdf
I’ve only lightly went over Squalene and Thimerosal but these are not the only toxins in the vaccine. The effects of these ingredients differ and some do much more damage in the long-term (refer to the SV-40 and cancer incident between 1955-1963, only to be revealed decades later).
I will begin by explaining how I knew about a coming flu epidemic months before the first “outbreak” in Mexico City, April 2009. Before anything, on June 16, 1996 the U.S. Air Force released “Air Force 2025” which is a study to examine the future of the world and the United States (in terms of technology capability and power structure). In Chapter 5 of this report, it presents a timeline and suggests that in 2009, 30 million people can die from a flu epidemic.
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/index.html

Earlier this year, a Czech Republic laboratory had found that 72 kilos of vaccines sent to them by Baxter International (facility was in Austria) were contaminated with H5N1 (human form of avian flu) and H3N2 (seasonal flu). A mix of H5N1 and H3N2 is deadly – while H5N1 is less airborne and restricted in how it can be spread but the H3N2 virus causes the strain to become super-airborne and easily spread. These same contaminated vaccinations were sent out to 18 different countries. Initially Baxter attempted to stonewall any inquiries as “trade secrets” but finally folded under pressure by stating it was purely an accident. People familiar with vaccine laboratory protocols will understand that BSL-3 guidelines make a crossover contamination (the mixing process is called “reassortment&#8221 in a vaccine is virtually impossible.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health--Science/Science/Virus-mix-up-by-lab-could-have-resulted-in-pandemic/articleshow/4230882.cms
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html
These articles are the original from Czech so they need to be translated:
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/unik-viru-je-obchodni-tajemstvi-odmita-firma-komentovat-unik-smrtelne-vakciny-19i-/domaci.asp?c=A090217_224441_domaci_anv
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/rakouska-ptaci-chripka-sla-do-ceska-i-nemecka-fmn-/domaci.asp?c=A090303_214331_domaci_abr
http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/zpravy/kontaminovana-vakcina-se-testovala-nejen-v-cr/363674

It is well known that Baxter International has had very close ties since 1941, when its blood-collection devices were the only ones that met the specifications of the US Armed Forces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International
It should also be known that Baxter International had patented the “swine flu” vaccine a year before the outbreak and the Austrian scientist involved in the H1N1 vaccine patent also advises for the WHO (the vaccination board of the WHO is filled with the executives of big pharma but I’ll get into that later). This is the patent application from Otfried Kristner (Baxter, the same laboratory that sent out contaminated vaccinations to 18 countries) dating back to August of 2008:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17458061/Baxter-Vaccine-Patent-Application
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19488855/US-Patent-Application-20080828-Method-for-Producing-Viral-Vacccines-Otfried-Kistner

Baxter’s own scientists have publicly stated in the New England Journal of Medicine that vaccine adjuvants do nothing to help improve antibody responses (I will refer to the specially made vaccines by Baxter for the elite that do not contain additives or adjuvants):
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/24/2573

On a side note, there is a Baxter Facility 50 miles from the Swine Flu “outbreak” origin in Mexico City (April, 2009).

If it seems completely out of your world to think that big pharma could send out contaminated vaccinations, we don’t have to go too far back in history to find a similar situation. In 2006, it was finally revealed (conspiracy theorists vindicated?) that Bayer Corporation had discovered their injection drug, used by hemophiliacs, was contaminated with the HIV virus (reminds us of the origin of the AIDS virus and the hepatitis B shots in New York and San Francisco). Internal documents from a 1985 meeting revealed that after they positively knew that the drug was contaminated, they took it off the US markets and dumped it on the European, Asian and Latin American markets. They knowingly exposed thousands, mostly children, to the HIV virus. Government officials in France went to prison. The documents and tapes go further to show that the FDA colluded with Bayer to cover-up the scandal – no Bayer executives ever faced arrest or prosecution. The FDA regulators tried to keep the sales under the rug by asking Bayer to have the problems “quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public”. Here is a video from MSNBC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs
Here is a short intro to Bayer’s HIV contaminated vaccine scandal in Japan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV-tainted_blood_scandal_(Japan)
Also, remember Bayer has a long, dark history. You can check on Corporate Watch; their history goes back to ties with Nazi Germany’s concentration camps:
[“ IG Farben continued to grow during the inter-war period as one of the most powerful chemical and pharmaceutical companies in the world. Products included polyurethanes and the first 'sulpha' drugs. It is during Nazi-era Germany and WW2 that IG Farben (Bayer) entered its most sinister phase. IG Farben as the leading chemical company in Nazi Germany took over chemical plants across Nazi occupied Europe, used slave-labour in their factories (including operating their own concentration camp), conducted medical experiments on those held in the concentration camps and manufactured the poison gas used to kill thousands. At the end of the war the 1945 Potsdam Agreement called for the break up of IG Farben into its constituent companies. Twelve IG Farben employees and directors were jailed for war crimes at the Nuremburg Trials."]
http://archive.corporatewatch.org/profiles/bayer/bayer1.html

Just recently, US Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, signed a decree granting the vaccine makers complete legal immunity from any lawsuits – all the mean while, the vaccines are not being properly tested for safety:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14453

The Canadian government has done measures to do the same thing – GlaxoSmithKline is immune from any lawsuits:
http://www.thestar.com/newsfeatures/swineflu/article/703355
In fact, all the G-8 governments have done the same thing by protecting big pharma from any lawsuits coming up due to sickness, incapacitation and death.
On the subject, here is a statistical analysis of "compulsory vaccinations vs. free to choose" (this is short but a summary of the findings). This is why the Japanese government decided to halt compulsory vaccinations in Japan:
http://users.tpg.com.au/petander/vaccines.japans.great.lesson.html
Here is a chart of the number and cause of annual deaths in the United States. You will see that the number of deaths from Swine Flu are approximately 1006 – yet, this is a National Emergency (and the President does not even get his own daughters vaccinated).
http://republicmedia.tv/images/graph-1.jpg
A recording leaked from a symposium at the Council on Foreign Relations suggests that a false scarcity is created in order to drive up the demand for the H1N1 vaccine. This meeting was held in order to encourage the federal government on policies concerning the so called swine flu pandemic. There were professors and doctors from several influential universities and medical schools, along with media representatives from Science Magazine, The Canadian Press and The Financial Times. Other notable attendees included Robert E Rubin (former Secretary of the Treasury and co-chair of the CFR), John Lange (Senior Program Officer of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Program). You can see from the transcript and hear from the recording Lone Simonsen (Research Professor and Research Director at the Department of Global Health) suggest this:
http://www.cfr.org/project/1442/cfr_symposium_on_pandemic_influenza.html
Clips of the recording can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImeSieEZDdU&feature=player_embedded
America’s leading H1N1 vaccine promoter admits to knowing little about how the immune system reacts to vaccines:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-336234
I will present a few other prominent figures that side with me on this side of the fence.
This was filmed at the 4th International Public Conference on Vaccinations (sponsored by the National Vaccine Information Center), these are doctors and health professionals speaking out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok
Dr. Adrian Gibbs is an Australian-based virologist with more than 200 scientific publications to his credit. He was also part of the team that developed the antiviral drug Tamiflu. He makes his case that the strain of H1N1 is in fact results from a laboratory (the swine flu strain is a combination of different sequences from bird, human and swine flu virus with lineages from Eurasia and North America).
Here is an article:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Virologist-to-make-his-cas-by-Peter-Duveen-090630-103.html
Here is a video clip of the interview from Bloomberg TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnelnLlszPM

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is well known for his opposition to the government cover-ups of vaccines; you can see one of his speeches in this video:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQG5Q4GWw2o
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPox5xBOLI
Minister Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, has come forth and explained that the H1N1 swine flu vaccination is a soft-kill weapon and a tool of depopulation:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/280790

A major poll (MSNBC) finds that two-thirds of US parents will delay vaccinations or not get them at all:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33109981/ns/health-swine_flu/
Another major poll in Canada (Harris-Decima) suggests that only one-third of the people would get the immunization:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gj2vjkpIx99hVeMtNmzW1_5Opb6Q
Former Finnish Provincial Medical Officer says vaccines are eugenics weapon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgyakGAddM

In terms of numbers of people that reject the swine flu vaccine:
Up to 60% of GPs may choose not to be vaccinated against swine flu (safety issues)



German chancellor and officials get special additive/adjuvant-free vaccine (it’s in German, you can translate it using a website or get a German speaker):
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/0,1518,655764,00.html
This is also from a German media outlet, so you'll have to translate but the title literally translates to "German soldiers get non-poisonous vaccine". This is another special vaccine made from Baxter without the soft-kill additives and adjuvants:
http://de.news.yahoo.com/2/20091012/tts-soldaten-bekommen-angeblich-besonder-c1b2fc3.html


You mentioned soft-kill depopulation and eugenics as if it was a ludicrous scenario but this is precisely what is going on. I will begin presenting some of the players:
Professor Sir Roy Anderson is on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), which draws up the plans for the reaction to the swine flu virus. He was one of the first people to call the Swine Flu a pandemic. He has been on a vicious campaign to bring positive attitudes toward mass vaccinations. He is also holding a 116,000 British Pounds-a-year job on the board of GlaxoSmithKline (the company selling the vaccine). Here is the article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1202389/Government-virus-expert-paid-116k-swine-flu-vaccine-manufacturers.html

I am assuming you guys are in a science-background. If so, are you guys aware of the disappearance of a staggering number of scientists (micro-biologists, nuclear experts, chemists, etc.)? Are you also aware of what is going on in the Ukraine (I have also warned about the Ukraine and Baxter specifically months ago).

Let me clarify. My views aren’t based solely off of the specific links that I posted. I’ve been researching for years; the specific links I posted were posted because they were the quickest found (it takes a lot of time to dig through my library and I’m not going to spend that much time on a facebook conversation). If multiple sources are needed, I can (btw, if you check most of the sources they are from major media outlets, some are the actual transcripts and legislation from government websites)…but I want to clarify again, I’m not here to tell you what to do or push my views on you. Like I said earlier, I only hope that this conversation will spark your basic instinct of curiosity and you will begin your own research. So far, all I’m hearing is the party line of the medical establishment – I’m assuming you guys are all science/med majors.
Here is a study from Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry on thimerosal titled “Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds.”
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss
Here is a review titled: “Thimerosal (Methiolate) and its Ethylmercury Breakdown Product: Specific Historical Considerations Regarding Safety and Effectiveness”:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a787584924?words=thimerosal
In a 1991 memo, warnings were issued by Dr. Maurice Hilleman (one of the fathers of Merck’s vaccination program) that 6-month-old children would suffer mercury exposures 87 times the government safety standard (this is 400 times the current US safety level) – he had recommended that thimerosal be discontinued “especially when used on infants and children”. Dr. Maurice Hilleman is credited to developing more vaccines than any other person in history, he is an international expert and the #1 US vaccine expert. Here is a link to the leaked 1991 secret memo within Merck:
http://www.nomercury.org/science/documents/LATimes-Merck_Memo_2-8-05.pdf
We have one of the leading vaccine experts explaining that the high levels of mercury need to be taken out, while on the other hand childhood injections and schedules skyrocketed. Here is a comparison, using CDC data, between 1983 and 2007 – we have tripled our vaccine schedule:
http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/cdc_comparison.pdf
Edward Shorter, a medical historian, conducted this great interview for WGBH Boston public television and Blackwell Science with the Merck Vaccine Chief, Dr. Maurice Hilleman. This interview has been cut from the Health Century obviously (they also mention the SV40 cancer virus that affected millions of Americans via Polio vaccines, something I mentioned earlier):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU
In 1998, Dr. Thomas Verstraeten complained to his colleagues in a secret memo that, despite rerunning and rethinking the research, the links between thimerosal and autism “just won’t go away”.

Here is a well written paper by Robert F Kennedy Jr. about the Thimerosal scandal and junk science:
http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/docs/ThimerosalScandalFINAL.PDF
The evidence for thimerosal has been around since the 1930’s. It’s been known Hg is considered the third most toxic element on earth (to plutonium and uranium). This study illustrates the connection between Thimerosal and chidlren’s neurodevelopmental disorders; it is from the medicine faculty at the Mayor National University of San Marcos:
http://www.safeminds.org/research/AnFacMedLima2006-67(3).pdf
(Interesting to note; the Amish do not vaccinate and the autism rates between the US and Amish are 1:166 and 1:15,000, respectively, today. Also, interesting to note, China had no problems of autism until the introduction of vaccinations which saw a boom of autism cases up to 1.8 million.)
There are many doctors, physicians, virologists that stand behind Dr. Adrian Gibbs – they are just not shown in the mainstream. This kind of junk science that the FDA, CDC and WHO continue to release in order to suppress and confuse the public is common – are you familiar with Global Warming (lol)? Austrian journalist Jane Burgermeister recently filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN) and several high ranking government and corporate officials on bioterrorism – obviously, she lost her job (as European Correspondent of the Renewable Energy World).
Here is an article from the Independent on the possibility that the swine flu was released from a laboratory. They quote several papers and studies; if you need those sources, let me know:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/did-leak-from-a-laboratory-cause-swine-flu-pandemic-1724448.html
Here is a clip of Dr. John Carlo, Dallas Medical Director, saying that “Swine Flu was cultured in a laboratory”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoQOpeOsQLg
Here is a clip from Russia Today (Russian media outlet) where investigative journalist Wayne Madsen talks about the suspicious origins of the swine flu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSX_jS0STA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0
The US Army Medical Command installation, Fort Detrick, which was the source of the 2001 anthrax attacks, are under the light again. “Chad Jones, spokesman for Fort Meade, said CID is investigating the possibility of missing virus samples from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases,”:
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?StoryID=89293
“The viruses contain genetic pieces from four different virus sources. This is unusual. The first is our North American swine influenza viruses. North American avian influenza viruses, human influenza viruses and swine influenza viruses found in Asia and Europe." Here is the transcript to the CDC briefing on swine flu:
http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090423.htm
The Swine Flu of the past (I’m assuming you mean 1976) came out of Fort Dix. This episode of CBS’ 60 Minutes aired only once in 1979 and was never played again – it is about the Swine Flu of 1976, the propaganda and the consequences of the vaccinations:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webcam
This 1976 episode was where Donald Rumsfeld had made a large amount of money and promoted mass vaccination which ended up killing more than the disease itself.
I wanted to add this video by Congressman Ron Paul to help put the swine flu into perspective (also refer back to my chart of annual deaths and causes of death in the United States):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bilx-mb1OtM
Baxter’s own scientists publicly stated in a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that adjuvants do nothing to help improve the antibody response:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/24/2573
To add onto this study; here are two articles from a major German media-outlet (and one from AFP) about specially made vaccinations from Baxter that do not include additives or adjuvants:
German Chancellor and government officials:
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/0,1518,655764,00.html
Special German soldiers:
http://de.news.yahoo.com/2/20091012/tts-soldaten-bekommen-angeblich-besonder-c1b2fc3.html
I want to break down each ofyour comments and reply back to each specific detail but I have other things to do. I enjoyed the conversation and liked reading your comments (it seems you guys know a lot about biology). Again, I began posting and replying not to change your views but merely to present another view that can be backed up. If I wanted to change minds, I can spend the time to organize a paper (or a proper reply via facebook) but I’m not trying to spoon feed anyone. There is a web of information out there and it is extremely difficult to differentiate truth from disinformation – which is why I value my mind and critical thinking. I’d also like to point out, you cannot rationalize such large thoughts without any other information; when an idea leaves your realm of reality, it cannot be “rationalized” by the limited information that you have – you cannot multiply without understanding how to add and with the knowledge of addition, multiplication becomes so easy.
This Swine Flu “pandemic” is a manufactured and engineered crisis being manipulated as a power grab by global entities. This will shift humanity as we begin to see the changes in our world and the swine flu scare is only one tool of a host of utensils being used to pave the globe to world government.
“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody will see it.” - Mahatma Gandhi

P.S. Are you guys aware of what is going on in the Ukraine? Stewart may have read my warnings about Ukraine 6 months ago.
Also, since you guys are in the field of biology and science, are you guys aware of the large number of missing and dead microbiologists, nuclear experts, chemists and the like? Whether it is suicide, fatal fall, beat to death, etc. You should take a look into this, the numbers are staggering.


After these I stopped getting replies from all four med students

This is a different debate I had:

What's "tldnr" mean?

I hope, after the post, you took the time to look over the sources and information because it would help understand my position (and eliminate redundancy) - or atleast spark curiosity for yourself.

I am opposed to vaccinations, not just the H1N1 vaccine, for a multitude of reasons. First, I'm opposed to the whole idea of vaccinations on a scientific level. I'm opposed to the additives and adjuvants contained in these vaccines, which a soft-kill eugenics weapon. I'm also opposed to vaccinations because the origins of all modern diseases have stemmed from laboratories and sabotage. If you had visited my facebook, website or blog you will know that I had warned about a coming "flu epidemic" months before the first "outbreak" in Mexico City - not because I have a crystal ball. I am also opposed to any idea of forced/mandatory vaccinations.

There is nothing wrong with ignorance if the mind is healthy as ignorance is only temporary with a critical mind.

Not all seasonal flu vaccines have "live" viruses. The injections contain killed viruses and nasal sprays (LIAV) contain weakened versions of the virus (sometimes more than one):
http://www.medicinenet.com/flu_vaccination/page2.htm

The idea of vaccinations, in and of itself, is flawed. By vaccinating an individual (and a peoples, from a broader view) weakens the immune system. For example, vaccinating an individual annually for the flu will only undermine the individuals immune system's response. By injecting a vaccine into the blood stream of a human, an important part of the physical immune system is bypassed completely. An annual flu vaccine will break down the immune system.

Noone should be vaccinated because all of these problems can be dealt with natural remedies which have zero side effects (how about that for "benefits outweigh the risks?"). We hear "advice" from the media that washing our hands and covering our mouths when we cough will help prevent the swine flu (or seasonal flu) but nothing is mentioned about vitamins (vitamin D in particular in this case) or anything about boosting our immune systems.

All of this reminds me of the hogwash "movements" to cure cancer - there is a "cure", though it's not a cure but simply getting what our body needs because cancer is a deficiency disease like scurvy.

No. First of all, it was all the major pharmaceutical companies that produced the H1N1 vaccines (not unique to one specific company). What I wrote about contaminations was about how I knew about a "flu epidemic" before the first case of swine flu even happened (it was replying to a specific person during that debate). It does not matter what company makes the vaccinations, what I'm talking about deals with the ingredients of the vaccines - which all big pharma companies use.

Can you provide any evidence or studies that were taken to prove what is considered a tautology by the Western medical establishment, mass media and which is the status quo? Can you provide any study to support that the introduction of human-originated vaccinations has helped? This study should uphold these requirements:
[Adequate scientific tests:
-- of a vaccine should contain at least two groups:
A: the group receiving only the trial vaccine,
B: the totally unvaccinated placebo group
And it is good to have additional groups:
C: the group receiving all "regular" vaccines plus the trial vaccine,
D: the group receiving only the "regular vaccines,

and it is also good to have reliable statistics from the large general public living in the same general area, time and ages as are in the trial groups. Ideally, the general public should contain

F: a large number of totally unvaccinated individuals
G: a large number of individuals with the recommended vaccines.

Valid health comparisons are A: to B:, C: to D: and F: to G:. Comparing B: to F: may be useful but group B: may be selectively picked from F: and thus should be expected to have better health. If group B: is less healthy than Group F: then it should be suspected that the "placebo" was not a true inert substance. Such a richness of data is seldom available and its availability would thoroughly embarrass the vaccine establishment.
--The trial must be monitored by independent scientifically knowledgeable people who are paid by potential consumers, not by manufacturers.
--All groups must contain populations with the the same diversity of living conditions and diet and be exposed in a natural manner to the same microbes.
--The vaccinated and placebo groups must have the vaccine and placebo administered under what is called double blind conditions. Double blind means neither the people or the doctors involved know who receives vaccines and who receives placebos. Copies of the record of what each injection contains and who receives it must remain in the possession of both the consumer paid supervisors as well as the manufacturers' representatives.
--The health of all groups must be "actively" checked on a long term basis, preferably over several years. Disease incidence must be carefully measured in all groups and must include ALL diseases not just the target disease.
--True vaccine "effectiveness" must be measured and calculated by comparing numbers of target disease incidence in the vaccinated to incidence in the unvaccinated. This measurement of true effectiveness is vastly different than the antibody counts usually used to claim 'effectiveness'. Antibody measurements are usually termed 'efficacy' figures.
--Each group must be large enough in size and of an appropriate age such that a significant expectation of target disease incidence exists. The CDC requires 20 cases of disease for effectiveness calculations.
-- In addition, all data must be accounted for. Test results must contain initial criteria for who was included in the tests. Individuals removed from the test after the first and subsequent vaccinations must be listed as to cause of removal and must have continued active monitoring of their health.
--It comes as an unpleasant surprise to many to find that actual testing of vaccines
occurs generally only in a healthy group and thus it can not be predicted how less healthy members of the general public will react to the vaccine,
too small a number of test subjects,
too short a followup testing time in the trial,
and sometimes only a 'passive' data collection for vaccine adverse side effects occurs.

Placebos are inert substances, but when control populations are used in vaccine trials, the control is not a placebo but another vaccine. The Prevnar vaccine trial used another experimental vaccine as the "control" for Prevnar. The practice of using vaccines, including experimental vaccines, as a substitute for placebos creates biases so that it is impossible to determine true safety data. Also, vaccine trials use selected populations by removing individuals who suffered previous vaccine side effects before the test study begins and then again those who suffer side effects during the study. While it is good to exclude these individuals, it is necessary to account for how this removal biases the test study result.

In addition, manufactures claim their product is "effective" based on antibody counts. However, it has been proven that antibody counts DO NOT correspond to actual immunity.]
I will use Measles as an example to counter your belief system that “vaccines work”. The Measles vaccine was introduced in 1963 – it was developed by Dr. Maurice Hilleman: scroll through my post to find Dr. Maurice Hilleman’s name and read/watch what he has to say. This is the “father” of vaccinology, developed more vaccinations than any other scientist and Robert Gallo describes him as “the most successful vaccinologist in history.”
In 1900 there were 13.3 measles deaths per 100,000 population. By 1955, the death rate was 0.03 deaths per 100,000, a decline of 97.7%, eight years before the first measles shot. The death rate from measles in the mid-1970’s (post-vaccine) remained exactly the same as in the early 1960’s (pre-vaccine).
In the United States and England, between 1915 and 1958, there was a 95% decline in the measles death rate.
Before the vaccine was introduced, it was extremely rare for an infant to contract measles. However, by 1993 more than 25% of all measles cases were occurring in babies under one year old. CDC (Centre for Disease Control) officials attribute it to the growing number of mothers who were vaccinated during the 1960’s, ‘70’s, and ‘80’s. (When natural immunity is denied, measles protection cannot be passed onto their babies.)
In the U.S.A. the measles vaccine has been available since 1957 and the triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) has been available since 1975. In spite of all this, from 1983 to 1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases.
In 1985 the American government reported that 80% of notified cases of measles had been vaccinated. In 1986 there was a measles epidemic at Corpus Christi, Texas, in which 99% of the children affected had been vaccinated against measles, and over 95% were supposedly immune.
According to Dr. Atkinson of the CDC, "measles transmissions has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95% of cases have a history of vaccination..."
According to a study by the World Health Organisation (W.H.O.), those vaccinated against measles are 14 times more likely to contract the disease than those left unvaccinated.
I have had a debate on the polio vaccine a few months ago, I can post that also if wanted.
Please read what I wrote before the next reply so we can eliminate redundancy and I'm sure the information I posted will trigger more and more questions - which is what I am trying to do.

Why should “the effectiveness of vaccinations” be a scientific truth? The next statement you give is that you don’t know for certain if vaccines work. And what is the reason for your lack of motivation?
This was the incident I was referring to in Corpus Christi, Texas:
“We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823
While it’s interesting to note that you may not be surprised by such a theory (referring to the rise of incidents in measles), it has no weight.
Measles deaths from 1901 declined by 99.4% by 1968; 1968 is the year that the measles vaccination was introduced:
Source: Twentieth Century Mortality CD, Office of National Statistics, 1 Drummond Gate, SW1, UK--0207 233 9233 02075335243
http://www.ndad.nationalarchives.gov.uk/CRDA/20/DD/2/1/detail.html (not yet transferred to NDAD)
This source is under an International Classification of Diseases (ICD) classification. ICD classifications are done by the World Health Organization.
This study from the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics portrays the generational effects of vaccinations – “Infants whose mothers were born after 1963 had a measles attack rate of 33% compared with 12% for infants of older mothers.” Infants up to 15 months of age represented only 2% of the US population between 1989 and 1991, according to the Centers for Disease Control. But this group of infants accounted for 24% of the 55,622 cases of measles reported during that period. (Their solution is to vaccinate more aggressively)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/104/5/e59.pdf
Here is a graph of England/Wales’ Measles mortality rates. You can see the introduction of vaccines did little in the decline of measles mortality rates:
http://www.whale.to/b/UK-Measles-1838-1978.gif
I mentioned that I would only mention measles but I could write on other topics. Yes, it could be shitty and yes, that is no argument against vaccination theory or application; your statement is no valid argument either. You can point out that it may just be a bad seed, but it holds no weight.
Vitamin A supplements and mortality related to measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3101849?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2
Vitamin A levels and severity of measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1285727?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4
Routine high-dose vitamin A therapy for children hospitalized with measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
The effect of live measles vaccines on serum vitamin A levels in healthy children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
Like Measles, the end of smallpox was due to environment (in this case particularly, sanitation – smallpox is a filth disease) not vaccinations.
You can read about the adverse reactions of the small pox vaccination here:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5204a1.htm
Here is a graph of the deaths from smallpox in England and Wales from 1838 to 1882. You can see that despite a period of encouraged, compulsory and even penal vaccinations, in 1872, there was a large epidemic of smallpox which killed 44,840 people (most of whom were vaccinated):
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/present/s374b.jpg
Here is a pamphlet from 1904 titled “A Summary of the Proofs That Vaccination Does Not Prevent Small-pox but Really Increases It”:
http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/wallace/S616.htm
The Lancet (London) of July 15, 1871 editorially states:
“The deaths from smallpox have assumed the proportions of a plague. Over 10,000 lives have been sacrificed during the past year in England and Wales. In London, 5,641 deaths have occurred since Christmas. Of 9,392 patients in the London smallpox hospitals, no less than 6,854 had been vaccinated, i.e. nearly 73 per cent. Taking the mortality at 17.5 percent of those attacked, and the deaths this year in the whole country at 10,000 it will follow that more than 122,000 vaccinated persons have suffered from smallpox. This is an alarming state of things. Can we greatly wonder that the opponents of vaccination should point to such statistics as an evidence of the failure of the system? It is necessary to speak plainly on this important matter.”
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/issue/vol352no9124/PIIS0140-6736(00)X0100-6
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-498128Y-9F&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6a6699e728b1b05fb90c24501c26d10


“Early in this century, the Philippines experienced their worst smallpox epidemic ever, after 8 million people received 24.5 million vaccine doses; the death rate quadrupled as a result.” -Physician William Howard Hay's address of June 25, 1937; printed in the Congressional Record
William Howard Hay is referring to the 1918-1919 smallpox epidemic in the Philippines (the worst recorded smallpox epidemic in the island nation’s history). This smallpox epidemic saw 162,503 reported cases and 71,453 deaths – all of whom were vaccinated due to compulsory vaccinations led by the U.S. government between 1917-1919, after it took over the Philippines. Prior to the US takeover, before 1905 the case-mortality rate was ~10%. During the 1905-1906 epidemic with vaccination widespread, the case-mortality ranged from 25-50%. During the 1918-1919 epidemic, the universally immunized Philippines had a case-mortality over 65%. (Interesting to note Australia had
“75% of British people who contracted smallpox had been vaccinated. This, combined with the fact that only 40% of children (and a maximum of 10% of adults) had been vaccinated, clearly shows that vaccinated people have a much higher tendency to contract the disease. There continue to be incidents like the one in West Germany in 1967, where smallpox vaccination damaged the hearing of 3,296 children, and of these 71 were rendered completely deaf.” – Professor George Dick, speaking at an environment conference in Brussels in 1973.
Professor George Dick made monumental steps in informing the public on vaccinations:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-professor-george-dick-1251230.html
Smallpox is spread by cimex lectularius, the common bedbug (refer to Dr. Campbell’s 1902 study).
"The infection is spread by droplet contamination. Coughing and sneezing are not generally part of the infection. Smallpox will not spread like wildfire."
-Walter A. Orenstein, M.D., Director of the CDC's National Immunization Program (NIP), CDC meeting June 20-22, 2002
"What do we expect if there was a terrorist introduction [of smallpox]? I would expect a small number of cases...I think airborne spread would be relatively inefficient and I don't think very many cases would occur." -Dr. Thomas Mack, USC School of Medicine [worked with 121 outbreaks of smallpox in Pakistan during the 1970s], CDC meeting June 20-22, 2002
Here is an article from The Washington Post (Associated Press) on the Polio outbreak caused by Polio vaccinations in Nigeria:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100501193.html
Here is a BBC article on the outbreak of a vaccine-derived form of polio (again, their solution is to vaccinate more):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7037462.stm
Here is an article on the Polio vaccine given to millions of Americans in the 50's (contaminations between the specific years of 1955-1963). This vaccine was contaminated with cancer, more specifically SV-40 (Simian Virus 40). This article is from a Chicago Life in 1997:
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/12-millions-of-americans-received-contaminated-polio-vaccine-between-1955-a/
Simian Virus 40 (SV40): A cancer causing monkey virus from fda-approved vaccines:
http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html
This is an article on the obvious links between SV40, cancer and the Polio vaccination from American Association of Cancer Research in San Francisco, California (April 2002):
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2002/SV40PolioVax&CancerBeyondCoincidence.htm
In 2001, the Indian government complained to the World Health Organization over the poor quality of their polio vaccines which caused a Polio outbreak:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main33.asp?filename=Ne280707untested_vaccine.asp
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081108/jsp/nation/story_10080634.jsp
“If you continue to allow these contaminated [polio] vaccines to go out, I guarantee you that over the next 20 years you will have epidemics of cancer unlike the world has ever seen.” – Bernice Eddy’s testimony to the US Congress in 1972
http://www.vaccines.plus.com/Polio 2 LR.pdf


You are mistaken in believing that polio has vanished; it has simply been recategorized into “viral or asceptic meningitis”, Chinese Paralytic Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, AFP, etc. The origins of polio stem from pesticide use and it’s infiltration in our lives (e.g. food supply).
Interesting what you have to say about homeopathy but I am not a homeopath (I believe homeopaths do introduce external agents during their treatment but do so to induce a similar reaction as the original problem: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/view,35). As for the latter half of what you said, I provided the ingredients of the vaccinations with explanations and studies on the effects of them. They are not unknown adjutants, chemicals or substances – they are all known and their effects have all been documented as well as warned by the vaccine creators and makers themselves.
Once again, I am not a homeopath. I do take forms of antibiotics, though natural-forms (e.g. colloidal silver). I do introduce external agents to assist my immune system. I do take multivitamins. I do take remedies. We should eat certain food rather than others because certain foods are unhealthy – that is if we are striving for a healthy body. Again, I take natural forms of antibiotics and am not opposed to them. And to note, if taking regular prescription antibiotics, intestinal good bacteria must be replenished with appropriate foods and/or supplements in order to maintain the immune system.
Can you explain how antibiotics are related to the spread of disease in the form that you have explained? I understand that the over-prescription and widespread use of anti-biotics have led to drug-resistant strains of different viruses, but can you further explain? Also, is it a major issue? If it were, to follow your scenario, we should not discount antibiotics in general; however, you are making the assumption that the effectiveness of antibiotics (or statement A, not specifically anti-biotics) are 100% true. What I am presenting is that statement A is a fallacy. Our reasoning and thought process is the same but you are focusing on a different aspect of the case – an aspect which prematurely defines an assumption as an absolute truth.
We should question our assumptions. Vaccines should not be taken on faith alone. We should take an objective look and weigh their risks and benefits and look at their record of effectiveness.

In case you are interested in these upcoming vaccinations, you may soon find one at a doctor near you!
Cocaine Vaccine: http://www.privatemdlabs.com/news/Drug_Screening/Cocaine-Vaccination-May-Curb-Addiction$19405312.php
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6262839/Cocaine-vaccine-could-combat-addiction.html
Anti-obesity vaccine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5232150.stm
Anti-smoking vaccine (two companies are working on this, Nabi Pharmaceuticals of Rockville, Md. and Cytos Biotechnology Ltd.): http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-07-27-tobacco-vaccine_x.htm
How much longer until we have an “anti-ugly vaccine”?

Why should “the effectiveness of vaccinations” be a scientific truth? The next statement you give is that you don’t know for certain if vaccines work. And what is the reason for your lack of motivation?

This was the incident I was referring to in Corpus Christi, Texas:
“We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823

While it’s interesting to note that you may not be surprised by such a theory (referring to the rise of incidents in measles), it has no weight.
Measles deaths from 1901 declined by 99.4% by 1968; 1968 is the year that the measles vaccination was introduced:
Source: Twentieth Century Mortality CD, Office of National Statistics, 1 Drummond Gate, SW1, UK--0207 233 9233 02075335243
http://www.ndad.nationalarchives.gov.uk/CRDA/20/DD/2/1/detail.html (not yet transferred to NDAD)

This source is under an International Classification of Diseases (ICD) classification. ICD classifications are done by the World Health Organization.
This study from the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics portrays the generational effects of vaccinations – “Infants whose mothers were born after 1963 had a measles attack rate of 33% compared with 12% for infants of older mothers.” Infants up to 15 months of age represented only 2% of the US population between 1989 and 1991, according to the Centers for Disease Control. But this group of infants accounted for 24% of the 55,622 cases of measles reported during that period. (Their solution is to vaccinate more aggressively)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/104/5/e59.pdf

Here is a graph of England/Wales’ Measles mortality rates. You can see the introduction of vaccines did little in the decline of measles mortality rates:
http://www.whale.to/b/UK-Measles-1838-1978.gif

I mentioned that I would only mention measles but I could write on other topics. Yes, it could be shitty and yes, that is no argument against vaccination theory or application; your statement is no valid argument either. You can point out that it may just be a bad seed, but it holds no weight.
Vitamin A supplements and mortality related to measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3101849?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

Vitamin A levels and severity of measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1285727?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4

Routine high-dose vitamin A therapy for children hospitalized with measles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

The effect of live measles vaccines on serum vitamin A levels in healthy children:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

Like Measles, the end of smallpox was due to environment (in this case particularly, sanitation – smallpox is a filth disease) not vaccinations.
You can read about the adverse reactions of the small pox vaccination here:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5204a1.htm

Here is a graph of the deaths from smallpox in England and Wales from 1838 to 1882. You can see that despite a period of encouraged, compulsory and even penal vaccinations, in 1872, there was a large epidemic of smallpox which killed 44,840 people (most of whom were vaccinated):
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/present/s374b.jpg

Here is a pamphlet from 1904 titled “A Summary of the Proofs That Vaccination Does Not Prevent Small-pox but Really Increases It”:
http://www.wku.edu/~smithch/wallace/S616.htm

The Lancet (London) of July 15, 1871 editorially states:
“The deaths from smallpox have assumed the proportions of a plague. Over 10,000 lives have been sacrificed during the past year in England and Wales. In London, 5,641 deaths have occurred since Christmas. Of 9,392 patients in the London smallpox hospitals, no less than 6,854 had been vaccinated, i.e. nearly 73 per cent. Taking the mortality at 17.5 percent of those attacked, and the deaths this year in the whole country at 10,000 it will follow that more than 122,000 vaccinated persons have suffered from smallpox. This is an alarming state of things. Can we greatly wonder that the opponents of vaccination should point to such statistics as an evidence of the failure of the system? It is necessary to speak plainly on this important matter.”
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/issue/vol352no9124/PIIS0140-6736(00)X0100-6
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-498128Y-9F&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6a6699e728b1b05fb90c24501c26d10


“Early in this century, the Philippines experienced their worst smallpox epidemic ever, after 8 million people received 24.5 million vaccine doses; the death rate quadrupled as a result.” -Physician William Howard Hay's address of June 25, 1937; printed in the Congressional Record
William Howard Hay is referring to the 1918-1919 smallpox epidemic in the Philippines (the worst recorded smallpox epidemic in the island nation’s history). This smallpox epidemic saw 162,503 reported cases and 71,453 deaths – all of whom were vaccinated due to compulsory vaccinations led by the U.S. government between 1917-1919, after it took over the Philippines. Prior to the US takeover, before 1905 the case-mortality rate was ~10%. During the 1905-1906 epidemic with vaccination widespread, the case-mortality ranged from 25-50%. During the 1918-1919 epidemic, the universally immunized Philippines had a case-mortality over 65%. (Interesting to note Australia had
“75% of British people who contracted smallpox had been vaccinated. This, combined with the fact that only 40% of children (and a maximum of 10% of adults) had been vaccinated, clearly shows that vaccinated people have a much higher tendency to contract the disease. There continue to be incidents like the one in West Germany in 1967, where smallpox vaccination damaged the hearing of 3,296 children, and of these 71 were rendered completely deaf.” – Professor George Dick, speaking at an environment conference in Brussels in 1973.

Professor George Dick made monumental steps in informing the public on vaccinations:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-professor-george-dick-1251230.html

Smallpox is spread by cimex lectularius, the common bedbug (refer to Dr. Campbell’s 1902 study).
"The infection is spread by droplet contamination. Coughing and sneezing are not generally part of the infection. Smallpox will not spread like wildfire."
-Walter A. Orenstein, M.D., Director of the CDC's National Immunization Program (NIP), CDC meeting June 20-22, 2002
"What do we expect if there was a terrorist introduction [of smallpox]? I would expect a small number of cases...I think airborne spread would be relatively inefficient and I don't think very many cases would occur." -Dr. Thomas Mack, USC School of Medicine [worked with 121 outbreaks of smallpox in Pakistan during the 1970s], CDC meeting June 20-22, 2002
Here is an article from The Washington Post (Associated Press) on the Polio outbreak caused by Polio vaccinations in Nigeria:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100501193.html

Here is a BBC article on the outbreak of a vaccine-derived form of polio (again, their solution is to vaccinate more):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7037462.stm

Here is an article on the Polio vaccine given to millions of Americans in the 50's (contaminations between the specific years of 1955-1963). This vaccine was contaminated with cancer, more specifically SV-40 (Simian Virus 40). This article is from a Chicago Life in 1997:
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/12-millions-of-americans-received-contaminated-polio-vaccine-between-1955-a/

Simian Virus 40 (SV40): A cancer causing monkey virus from fda-approved vaccines:
http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html

This is an article on the obvious links between SV40, cancer and the Polio vaccination from American Association of Cancer Research in San Francisco, California (April 2002):
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/May2002/SV40PolioVax&CancerBeyondCoincidence.htm

In 2001, the Indian government complained to the World Health Organization over the poor quality of their polio vaccines which caused a Polio outbreak:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main33.asp?filename=Ne280707untested_vaccine.asp
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081108/jsp/nation/story_10080634.jsp

“If you continue to allow these contaminated [polio] vaccines to go out, I guarantee you that over the next 20 years you will have epidemics of cancer unlike the world has ever seen.” – Bernice Eddy’s testimony to the US Congress in 1972
http://www.vaccines.plus.com/Polio 2 LR.pdf


You are mistaken in believing that polio has vanished; it has simply been recategorized into “viral or asceptic meningitis”, Chinese Paralytic Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, AFP, etc. The origins of polio stem from pesticide use and it’s infiltration in our lives (e.g. food supply).

Interesting what you have to say about homeopathy but I am not a homeopath (I believe homeopaths do introduce external agents during their treatment but do so to induce a similar reaction as the original problem: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/view,35). As for the latter half of what you said, I provided the ingredients of the vaccinations with explanations and studies on the effects of them. They are not unknown adjutants, chemicals or substances – they are all known and their effects have all been documented as well as warned by the vaccine creators and makers themselves.

Once again, I am not a homeopath. I do take forms of antibiotics, though natural-forms (e.g. colloidal silver). I do introduce external agents to assist my immune system. I do take multivitamins. I do take remedies. We should eat certain food rather than others because certain foods are unhealthy – that is if we are striving for a healthy body. Again, I take natural forms of antibiotics and am not opposed to them. And to note, if taking regular prescription antibiotics, intestinal good bacteria must be replenished with appropriate foods and/or supplements in order to maintain the immune system.

Can you explain how antibiotics are related to the spread of disease in the form that you have explained? I understand that the over-prescription and widespread use of anti-biotics have led to drug-resistant strains of different viruses, but can you further explain? Also, is it a major issue? If it were, to follow your scenario, we should not discount antibiotics in general; however, you are making the assumption that the effectiveness of antibiotics (or statement A, not specifically anti-biotics) are 100% true. What I am presenting is that statement A is a fallacy. Our reasoning and thought process is the same but you are focusing on a different aspect of the case – an aspect which prematurely defines an assumption as an absolute truth.
We should question our assumptions. Vaccines should not be taken on faith alone. We should take an objective look and weigh their risks and benefits and look at their record of effectiveness.

In case you are interested in these upcoming vaccinations, you may soon find one at a doctor near you!
Cocaine Vaccine: http://www.privatemdlabs.com/news/Drug_Screening/Cocaine-Vaccination-May-Curb-Addiction$19405312.php
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6262839/Cocaine-vaccine-could-combat-addiction.html

Anti-obesity vaccine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5232150.stm

Anti-smoking vaccine (two companies are working on this, Nabi Pharmaceuticals of Rockville, Md. and Cytos Biotechnology Ltd.): http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-07-27-tobacco-vaccine_x.htm

How much longer until we have an “anti-ugly vaccine”?

I have explained earlier. Polio has been recategorized and split into several categories. There is an inverse relationship with the decline of polio and the rise of viral or aseptic meningitis. This is due to faulty reasoning - making the same mistake - holding "the effectiveness of vaccinations" as an absolute truth.

[Consider these figures from the Los Angeles County Health Index: Morbidity and Mortality, Reportable Diseases (listed here by date, followed by number of cases of a) viral or aseptic meningitis, b) polio):

*** Jul 1955 a) 50 b) 273

*** Jul 1961 a) 161 b) 65

*** Jul 1963 a) 151 b) 31

*** Sep 1966 a) 256 b) 5

(5 year median)

*** Oct 1966 a) 312 b) 3

"Most cases reported prior to July 1, 1958 as non-paralytic poliomyelitis are now reported as viral or aseptic meningitis."]

This is due to the faulty reasoning that because the "Polio vaccine wiped out Polio, any children or people with polio-like symptoms who have gotten the vaccination will be classified under something different, e.g. Viral or Aseptic Meningitis!

You can refer back to my last post to look at the charts and statistics - Polio was well on its decline before the introduction of the vaccine and the vaccine actually caused a spike in polio incidents.

As for an explanation of why measles cases still exist post-vaccine, I have gone over this in my post also. The introduction of the measles vaccine has weakened the natural immunity to measles. We see that measles had been on a significant decline before the vaccine was introduced. Most of the world has the MMR vaccine (it is part of the vaccine schedule for an American child) and measles no longer a problem of epidemic, yet we have recurrences in measles (not to mention the injuries and deaths from the vaccine). I believe that warrants an explanation from you on how the vaccine has helped (also refer back to the study I posted on the generational effects of Measles vaccination).


I have taken a few homeopathic remedies and am somewhat familiar with them but am not a homeopath – they kind of all fall into the same category in this situation of Western Medicine vs. Alternative Medicine, so I understand. My reply was also working off the analogy you based your argument on, but your analogy is misleading. Argument A “is not directly related to the spread of disease” (your own words), but earlier stated “I know for certain are related to the spread of disease.” The rationale you follow in this analogy is correct, we cannot come to such conclusions about antibiotics in such circumstances – but these controls, created by you, are misleading and incorrect. Viewing your point purely as an analogy, I agree with what you’re saying, strictly logically-speaking. However, if we examine the contents of this analogy, we can determine that it does nothing to support your or denounce my argument. As I pointed out earlier, we are examining a case looking and asking the wrong questions about different aspects of the same case.



Yes, I believe that antibiotics (though I, personally, do not use prescription antibiotics) should only be used when necessary and that we do face a problem of drug-resistant bacteria with such widespread and over prescription of antibiotics. Interesting to note that the tables have turned; I am asking for sources while you are basing your “science” on faith when we started with pro-vaccine players asking for sources and the assumption that I based my “science” on faith. If we will endeavor into the world of personal experience, I’d like to point out that I have not gotten a flu vaccination in over 5 years and have not had the flu in this time period. And I did not question the efficacy of antibiotics, I am simply opposed to such widespread antibiotic use (over prescription) and I am adamantly opposed to the widespread use of antibiotics in our food supply via farm animals (another cause of drug-resistant bacteria). I take natural forms of antibiotics even when I do not have a bacterial infection because unlike prescription antibiotics, which destroy even the good intestinal bacteria that help maintain the immune system (absorption of vitamin A and K), natural antibiotics do not kill good bacterium. Natural antibiotics, like colloidal silver, boost the immune system to help fight off invading pathogens so I do take them regularly.


Where do we draw the line when we start vaccinating people against “future cocaine use”, obesity, alcoholism, smoking, etc.? What are the consequences of having such a mentality in the medical establishment? People are always searching for the holy-grail, the easy-answer. The consequences of blindly-supporting vaccinations and vaccinations for all kinds of things, causes people to solely rely on the prick/jab. The truth of the matter is, many of these issues stem from lifestyles and diet, but the idea of a cure-all vaccination sedates the mind and motivation to bring genuine healthy change. This changes a nations’ psyche and how they think. This is talking solely on the grounds that consider “vaccines” efficient – when we bring in the facts, we have to question who in their right mind brought up the idea of such vaccinations.

To add onto the original subject of the post, the mainstream media and medical establishment have jumped onto Desiree Jennings case; first, using it as a tragic example of a “rare” side effect of the flu vaccination, now attacking Mrs. Jennings claiming the whole ordeal was a “hoax” (this is the typical party line steaming out of the medical establishment). This conjecture that this is all a hoax is supported with absolutely nothing and this is not surprising (they even go as far as to state that “it was all in her head” without ever going near or even speaking to Desire Jennings; these big-pharma apologists always surprise me). Desiree Jennings was diagnosed with a rare neurological disorder (dystonia) by doctors at Fairfox Inova and Johns Hopkins:
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/health/dpgo_101309_woman_disabled_by_flu_shot_reaction_dystonia_4027780


And this is where I stopped getting replies from this guy.

I have to admit I didn't read all your posts but it sounds like you're just trying to scare people again with the H1N1 influenza epidempic. I have taken Myfortic, which is also manufactured by Novartis, and it is an immunosuppressant which is very popular among transplant patients and the physicians administering it. I DID get my H1N1 vaccine along with the other "flu shots" that were given last year and I had no problems with it what so ever, although prior to that, I did have a bout of CMV infection. Stop being so damn paranoid. There a a ton more people that would benefit from getting these vaccinations as opposed to those that don't.

If you don't want one, then don't get it, but don't scare everyone away from it just because you have a "sneaking suspicion" that something queer is going on.

lopezri said:

I have to admit I didn't read all your posts but it sounds like you're just trying to scare people again with the H1N1 influenza epidempic. I have taken Myfortic, which is also manufactured by Novartis, and it is an immunosuppressant which is very popular among transplant patients and the physicians administering it. I DID get my H1N1 vaccine along with the other "flu shots" that were given last year and I had no problems with it what so ever, although prior to that, I did have a bout of CMV infection. Stop being so damn paranoid. There a a ton more people that would benefit from getting these vaccinations as opposed to those that don't.

If you don't want one, then don't get it, but don't scare everyone away from it just because you have a "sneaking suspicion" that something queer is going on.

Click to expand...

You haven't read my entire post. I'm not fearmongering, I'm presenting facts. I also warned about a coming flu epidemic 3 months prior to the first outbreak of Swine Flu. I don't own a crystal ball that can look into the future.

How is it that I'm scaring people over the Swine Flu? Was it not all media-hype? You've got it completely backwards. All I'm doing is presenting a debate and showing another point of view. Nowhere in my posts is there any kind of fear-mongering. Everything I've said is backed by sources that I have linked within the posts.

Since I presented negative effects from vaccinations, why don't you back up your claim that more people will benefit from taking the H1N1 vaccination than those who don't.

There's nothing in my posts that show any kind of paranoia whatsoever. Nor do I have a "sneaking suspicion". It's clear facts.



I haven't gotten any kind of vaccination in several years. Nowhere in my posts does it tell other people not to get vaccinated.

Basically you just read the title of my post and came to a conclusion without reading anything I wrote. Then labeled me and threw me into a group of "paranoid suspicious fear-mongerer". Good job.

poonjoon said:

You haven't read my entire post. I'm not fearmongering, I'm presenting facts. I also warned about a coming flu epidemic 3 months prior to the first outbreak of Swine Flu. I don't own a crystal ball that can look into the future.

How is it that I'm scaring people over the Swine Flu? Was it not all media-hype? You've got it completely backwards. All I'm doing is presenting a debate and showing another point of view. Nowhere in my posts is there any kind of fear-mongering. Everything I've said is backed by sources that I have linked within the posts.

Since I presented negative effects from vaccinations, why don't you back up your claim that more people will benefit from taking the H1N1 vaccination than those who don't.

There's nothing in my posts that show any kind of paranoia whatsoever. Nor do I have a "sneaking suspicion". It's clear facts.



I haven't gotten any kind of vaccination in several years. Nowhere in my posts does it tell other people not to get vaccinated.

Basically you just read the title of my post and came to a conclusion without reading anything I wrote. Then labeled me and threw me into a group of "paranoid suspicious fear-mongerer". Good job.

Click to expand...

If he read the entire post he wouldn't be done yet it's so long.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1321203/Experts-admit-swine-flu-jab-cause-deadly-nerve-disease.html

they have been predicting the next pandemic for years now. eventually one will come along.

*yawn*

Yeah, but you can't discuss these kind of issues over one-sentence posts. I haven't done any debates too recently but whenever I present my views I'm attacked or laughed at. Then I come back to discuss it and present all the evidence and how I came to my conclusion I get "that was too long to read". People do not know how to think critically or research. If one is too lazy to research, then they should not have such an adamant view on any topic - or insult others for that matter. How can you say that you back a point of view when you haven't taken a look at both sides and done the research? I've gotten into debates on a wide range of topics and most of the time it's:

1. "you're an idiot"
2. "i learned this in college, saw it on the news, read it in the paper"
3. "you're an idiot"
4. -no response

I've only posted two debates so far: my global warming debate and this one. Critical thinking is crucial and research is necessary. If one is too lazy to do either, they shouldn't hold hard (empty)-headed positions. Learning is a constant, knowledge is not.

Its the Goat Flu this year get with the program!
















hahaha

growgreengrass said:

Its the Goat Flu this year get with the program!




hahaha

Click to expand...

a lot more dangerous than the swine flu. if you get it, goats will surround your ass so you can't get any medical help!!!

I have taken the flu shot for over 20 years and NO ill affect.

In fact i have not even gotten a common cold in all those years.

And i have gotten the newer flu shot the last 2 years with the same affect(Fucking Nothing at all)

So all this so called vaccination crap everone pulls is BS.

I've never had a flu shot...because I know my immune system needs "practice" to build strength. it's like any sub-system of the body- neurological, skeletal, muscular...UNLESS these systems are stressed, rested/nourished and, in the process-build to become stronger, they simple atrophy.


I rarely ever get sick, and I think it's because I actively work to build my immunity without flu shots

Then please explain why i have not gotten sick in 20 years of taking the shot.(if my immune system needs "practice" to build strength)As you like to put it....
And i do not take care of myself either(over weight,high blood pressure)
But have not even gotten the common cold in 20 years either.....

Mindmelted said:

Then please explain why i have not gotten sick in 20 years of taking the shot.(if my immune system needs "practice" to build strength)As you like to put it....
And i do not take care of myself either(over weight,high blood pressure)
But have not even gotten the common cold in 20 years either.....

Click to expand...

i think everyone DOES have a margin of difference in terms of what their body can tolerate


but i do think someone of my health can tolerate much greater stress than someone of your health that you describe...and overall, my body probably functions better than yours. for instance, i have a very low heart rate and high metabolism with energy through the roof. do i occasionally get the scratchy throat/headache? sure...but then i meditate and it goes away, which i feel makes my mind/body connection stronger


whatever, it's not a penis contest, just sayin

also, i studied biology in college... that taught me quite a bit, and it all seemed like reasonable theory

based on all this theory i was taught, i probably began to believe that the immune system does use antigen recognition to build defenses