used hardwater 1Kppm+. got harder fruit...why?

M.O. said:

I’ve heard of this being an easy way to source a good container. Rain barrels even at Menards aren’t exactly cheap.
Hey just incase it was suspect, my mention of said nute line isn’t an endorsement just the only one I have experience with. Honestly using a line of anything makes me feel a bit noob but I’ve only been able to kick ass outdoors with organic style. Inside I bloomed bugs and failure lmao.

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Some other thread I'll regale you with my first serious attempt st growing indoors. 1981. High Times ads. "Grow huge plants with hydroponics like the Pro's"

$400. Got a kitty litter box, 2 bags of red lava, an aquarium pump and a 400 watt HPS street light with a magnetic ballast as heavy as the anchor for a light cruiser. I do mean street light. Round shade. White inside. Green outside. And 3 teeny tiny packs of nutes and no instructions.

It got worse from there. I'm amazed at some of the first grows some guys pull off indoors. Granted there's more information than waiting for the next copy of High Times and Ed Rosenthal's latest grow secrets.

hotrodharley said:

Some other thread I'll regale you with my first serious attempt st growing indoors. 1981. High Times ads. "Grow huge plants with hydroponics like the Pro's"

$400. Got a kitty litter box, 2 bags of red lava, an aquarium pump and a 400 watt HPS street light with a magnetic ballast as heavy as the anchor for a light cruiser. I do mean street light. Round shade. White inside. Green outside. And 3 teeny tiny packs of nutes and no instructions.

It got worse from there. I'm amazed at some of the first grows some guys pull off indoors. Granted there's more information than waiting for the next copy of High Times and Ed Rosenthal's latest grow secrets.

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I honestly love the history of trying to put stuff together back in the day. My first grow was in 03 and things had come around a lot by then with lighting.

I inherited a stash of seeds recently, his grow was from late 80s-early 90s and homie had built his own ballast. Definitely had a street light set up but the homemade ballast kind of blew my mind. Easily close to 50 pounds and about the size of full sized a computer tower. Had all the books for wiring and notes for it all. It was solid and no doubt still worked.

Tons of respect for all the trail blazers. I still had to sneak but didn’t have to actually build anything like that.

Yo @Chronicaly ill

Do you use any kind of enzyme for sediment building up in the media? and what kind of media, peat, coco etc. do you use if you don’t mind me askin?

hey hotrod..nobody said we drink it..lol actually used to as a kid..man i had strong bones. should have broken many but didnt. well is 400+ deep. stuff makes horrible coffee, been getting that spring water for 35 years. use that for everything except shower n laundry. No i dont use enzymes for sediment, use good water for hydro but i do get a good deal of organic looking junk in nft. and dwc, . last runs have been in soil. never used hard stuff in hydro but dangit im gonna try it out. I actually called GH and asked about the compatibility of HW floramicro. was told my water to hard to use for anything. You guys that have wells that murder..mine doesn't. that's what got me thinking,,grandma watered her aloe n poinsettias with it and all her houseplants did more than ok so after hauling literally over 10 thousand gallons of supposedly good spring water over the decades i gave it a whirl. results are confounding and amazing. wayyyy less stretch, 2-3x fatter at end of just 3wks, solid 10" shorter. Consumtion of prior test subject seems unaffected and even preferred. Always suspected nute companies werent 100% forthcoming in their goings on. idk if this proves anything at all but to me it proves 2 things. one ya don't need RO or filtered h2o, two I've been doing it wrong or following the wrong directions. I used to use GH Pro 10part medium feed minus the kleen and rapid start with 1ml calmagic instead of 2 however after experiment #1 results i switched to full strength calmag to see what happened. figured it was a fluke in round one but surely not twice in a row. fruits are fatter plants are shorter. Now I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong with nutes? when they claim more calmag under LED are they saying double or triple the recipe? Its gotts to be the extremly high calcium, magnesium, or iron in the hard water. But the real question is why isnt the full GH line in good water keeping up or exceeding? I alternated GH with masterblend a while back, I did not notice the excessive height back then. not saying it wasnt there just i didnt catch it, probably because i wasnt looking or doing a side x side. time for a water vs water, nute vs nute side x side and a hardwater hydro attempt. Any good input on the phenomena is welcome.

It's because the plant had more calcium, magnesium, iron and other minerals and heavy metals (Things you do not want) available to it.

Before using RO Filters I had some weed tested and it failed metals due to IRON in the well water.

I noticed the stalks got chunky as hell with the raw well water but it was producing not that great of pot with probably lots of iron and who knows what else in it? I live in farm land so all the sh*t that's been dumped and sprayed over the years probably has made its way into the water table by now. Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Chronicly ill
Good stuff! I figured you’d have included anything extra in the first post. Thanks for answering. If at any time you thought I was talking shit I promise I wasn’t. I’ve really put a lot of effort into trying to use my well and have failed until filtering. I totally agree about the old days and think how did they grow back in the day with this water?
For me this land was farm land until 1970. I’ve always wondered if they decide to sell and developed the land because the water started to cause issues.

RO gets the heavy metals out and keeps me using that when rain water runs out. And would be my only caution for you going full on, I would have the water tested for those heavies since were dumping a lot of gallons over the months. The sand filter Hotrodharley mentioned is seriously something I’m going to look into when there’s time.
I for one am grateful you started this thread. I’ve learned and keep learning. Thanks again!

calvin.m16 said:

It's because the plant had more calcium, magnesium, iron and other minerals and heavy metals (Things you do not want) available to it.

Before using RO Filters I had some weed tested and it failed metals due to IRON in the well water.

I noticed the stalks got chunky as hell with the raw well water but it was producing not that great of pot with probably lots of iron and who knows what else in it? I live in farm land so all the sh*t that's been dumped and sprayed over the years probably has made its way into the water table by now. Just a thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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This exactly in my opinion. There was a thread a long while back by @DoubleAtotheRON where I’m pretty sure he’d failed some testing due to well water and using RO fixed this. This helped lead me to finally figuring out my well really was the issue.
This was a while ago so if I have the details wrong here I apologize. Still the point is right. Every single well has arsenic at the very least and it’s level will vary through the year. All wells are tested for it, EPA required I thought, and will be a record of it at the records office with your house infos.

so lets assumes its extra calcium and magnesium. in current side x side im giving full 2ml/gal GH calmagic as per chart..same result. so assuming theres a good bit of truth to the "feed (more) calmag under led" stuff ..how much to feed? cuz 2ml aint doin it here. double? triple? also got thinking with the masterblend i added calnit and epsom so theres my calmag. at what concentration i have to clue. just followed directions on bag.. and no I didnt think you were talking shit at all, id never heard of a plant killing well till now. glad mine doesnt. be a bitch watering everything by hauled or collected means.

hotrodharley said:

Shallow wells are often contaminated with everything from runoff fertilizer to jet fuel to god only knows what. When I was young and dinosaurs roamed the earth we'd take used oil dump it. Every farm had a brownfield patch. Tractors leaking hydraulic fluid. Oil. Gear lube. We washed parts in kerosene and of course dumped that too. You get the picture.

Now you go down 400 feet and your chances of sweet water increase greatly. Most shallow wells are good for sheep and gardens in many areas.

Have it analyzed. Shouldn't cost much.

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My Dad, bless his dead soul use to go behind the house when I was growing up and dump the oil after he would change it. Said it came from the earth so how could it hurt to put it back. Loved my Dad but damn some of the shit he did was messed up. Same man demanded we leave our campsites and the areas around them cleaner than when we had found it.

farmingfisherman said:

My Dad, bless his dead soul use to go behind the house when I was growing up and dump the oil after he would change it. Said it came from the earth so how could it hurt to put it back. Loved my Dad but damn some of the shit he did was messed up. Same man demanded we leave our campsites and the areas around them cleaner than when we had found it.

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I never thought it was a good idea but my father was not going to discuss anything at all with me. I did as I was told. Pop the same at a campground. Leave it cleaner than you found it. Multiple burn barrels. Black smoke sometimes and that's never good.

Chronicly ill said:

so lets assumes its extra calcium and magnesium. in current side x side im giving full 2ml/gal GH calmagic as per chart..same result. so assuming theres a good bit of truth to the "feed (more) calmag under led" stuff ..how much to feed? cuz 2ml aint doin it here. double? triple? also got thinking with the masterblend i added calnit and epsom so theres my calmag. at what concentration i have to clue. just followed directions on bag.. and no I didnt think you were talking shit at all, id never heard of a plant killing well till now. glad mine doesnt. be a bitch watering everything by hauled or collected means.

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Yea my gnarly well was a journey. Honestly though rainwater set up is super simple and a little gravity will push water pretty far.

The easiest thing since anything I do would require storage will be just bringing a barrel in at the end of the season and filling it from the others.

Just need to find room and fill it before the wife figures out what I’m doing because that definitely won’t easily fit in the grow room…

Wonder if a big house plant would hide that thing? Probably only to me lol.

M.O. said:

I like the idea!

With all we do already to filter I’m trying not to spend much more on it. My well water ruins clothes, and was ruining pipes and all that. Nice softener and filters fixed that while RO is my drinking/cooking. Like you said - probably don’t wanna drink it and your right. They test every well and it’s on record somewhere. Arsenic is present in them all. Levels rise and fall throughout the year so you never really know how much is in there. Some Michigan wells have actually poisoned people in other parts of the state.

Also rain barrels ftw. I have 200 gallons all spring summer and can store a lot inside too for a while but not enough for all winter.

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They are coming to test our well water in the next week or so!!! I'm getting a new faucet and I already have a Moen water filter for it,but my plant water is a different story... But I'm not sure the water is the problem with my plants... More human error than anything else...

hotrodharley said:

Some other thread I'll regale you with my first serious attempt st growing indoors. 1981. High Times ads. "Grow huge plants with hydroponics like the Pro's"

$400. Got a kitty litter box, 2 bags of red lava, an aquarium pump and a 400 watt HPS street light with a magnetic ballast as heavy as the anchor for a light cruiser. I do mean street light. Round shade. White inside. Green outside. And 3 teeny tiny packs of nutes and no instructions.

It got worse from there. I'm amazed at some of the first grows some guys pull off indoors. Granted there's more information than waiting for the next copy of High Times and Ed Rosenthal's latest grow secrets.

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You are a true OG,HRH!!!

Frank Nitty said:

You are a true OG,HRH!!!

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Learned most of it the hard way. Didn't think about cracks in window coverings. I was the instructor for advanced first aid for the Red Cross in this little burg. Every cop in southern Colorado knew me. Liked me too because I didn't play games, they learned the material and all passed first time.

Anyway I'm next door at the truck stop and a Colorado State Patrol officer sees me. I'm between him and my house.

"Hey there, Slim. What ya got upstairs there? A parking lot?"

Turn around and look. Holy shit. HPS orange. Told him I was trying to light and heat that old abobe upstairs so the wife could sit and knit. Home to seal every possible light leak after that.

hotrodharley said:

Learned most of it the hard way. Didn't think about cracks in window coverings. I was the instructor for advanced first aid for the Red Cross in this little burg. Every cop in southern Colorado knew me. Liked me too because I didn't play games, they learned the material and all passed first time.

Anyway I'm next door at the truck stop and a Colorado State Patrol officer sees me. I'm between him and my house.

"Hey there, Slim. What ya got upstairs there? A parking lot?"

Turn around and look. Holy shit. HPS orange. Told him I was trying to light and heat that old abobe upstairs so the wife could sit and knit. Home to seal every possible light leak after that.

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That's funny

Frank Nitty said:

They are coming to test our well water in the next week or so!!! I'm getting a new faucet and I already have a Moen water filter for it,but my plant water is a different story... But I'm not sure the water is the problem with my plants... More human error than anything else...

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I have to say I thought I was making mistakes for a while that really turned out to be my well but it also sounds like it’s an outlier and especially bad. I know someone on a well a few hours from here and it’s all good.

Maybe I should be thankful though. Within this thread is at least the 2nd time I’ve read of failed testing from heavy metals in well water. I can’t remember where I read or heard this but hemp has been used to strip metals out of field soil and does a wonderful job.

RO is so extreme and causes it’s own issues but maybe on a really shit well it’s the only reliably safe way to use it.

It’s frustrating! Hopefully your well tests nicely. Every water has its issues but from my perspective wells are the toughest to figure out.

hotrodharley said:

Turn around and look. Holy shit. HPS orange. Told him I was trying to light and heat that old abobe upstairs so the wife could sit and knit. Home to seal every possible light leak after that.

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hahaha yea I had a moment like that but caught it myself walking home late at night. Thankfully was using MH but was still so obvious. I’d turned the corner and my bedroom window was the brightest thing for miles lmao.

M.O. said:

I have to say I thought I was making mistakes for a while that really turned out to be my well but it also sounds like it’s an outlier and especially bad. I know someone on a well a few hours from here and it’s all good.

Maybe I should be thankful though. Within this thread is at least the 2nd time I’ve read of failed testing from heavy metals in well water. I can’t remember where I read or heard this but hemp has been used to strip metals out of field soil and does a wonderful job.

RO is so extreme and causes it’s own issues but maybe on a really shit well it’s the only reliably safe way to use it.

It’s frustrating! Hopefully your well tests nicely. Every water has its issues but from my perspective wells are the toughest to figure out.

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The wasted water by RO units should be a crime.

M.O. said:

hahaha yea I had a moment like that but caught it myself walking home late at night. Thankfully was using MH but was still so obvious. I’d turned the corner and my bedroom window was the brightest thing for miles lmao.

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What was worse was my first indoor attempt sucked. Super cold area in an old adobe and the only space was a dead end space. No way to ventilate it. Fan at the front trying to cool that street light wind whipped the plants. Had yanked them out of the silly "hydro" set up and transplanted into dirt. Actual soil with some humus and sawdust. Bad mix in every way. Was lucky enough after they were done to get plants of every type started for outdoors but everything was stretched to the max from HPS. There was no Google or even internet.

hotrodharley said:

The wasted water by RO units should be a crime.

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Especially when your RO was already prefiltered by a softener which also wastes it. If I didn’t though the RO filters wouldn’t last a week.

My waste just goes back into my water table on a septic system though. You only spend electricity pumping it up and some salt.

It’s still a pain in the ass however necessary for me and I’d rather save the RO filters for drinking and cooking only.

hotrodharley said:

What was worse was my first indoor attempt sucked. Super cold area in an old adobe and the only space was a dead end space. No way to ventilate it. Fan at the front trying to cool that street light wind whipped the plants. Had yanked them out of the silly "hydro" set up and transplanted into dirt. Actual soil with some humus and sawdust. Bad mix in every way. Was lucky enough after they were done to get plants of every type started for outdoors but everything was stretched to the max from HPS. There was no Google or even internet.

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I had some internet. There was a forum called marijuanacultivation dot com I think that got me started. Still remember some journals from that. I never knew about overgrow that people talk about here a lot.

People at the time would still give you a list of books to read so I did both. My first grow still ended up a lot like yours so how sad is that? Even with all the info I had. I didn’t even try to carbon filter. Lasted 3 harvests and lost my nerve as I was getting attention from all directions. Wasn’t until Michigan went rec that I finally got back to it.