trayvan martin

UncleBuck said:
i get that you're saying this to play devil's advocate for whatever reason, but it is just dangerous to try to tell people that acting as zimmerman did is still compatible with "standing your ground".
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Not just devil's advocate, but more a defense of presumption of innocence. I think what I'm seeing around this case is even more dangerous, putting up bounties and calling the police evil and racist when based on the cold hard evidence, they can't arrest him yet. Zim's rights have to be the absolute concern at this point, as I suspect we all believe deep down past the emotion of the case. As much as I believe he is guilty, it has to be proven in court before he loses just about everything he has including his freedom or his life. You know where I stand on all this stuff, I'm unwaivering when it comes to our rights and freedoms, even for the worst scumbags we must call fellow citizens.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Not just devil's advocate, but more a defense of presumption of innocence. I think what I'm seeing around this case is even more dangerous, putting up bounties and calling the police evil and racist when based on the cold hard evidence, they can't arrest him yet. Zim's rights have to be the absolute concern at this point, as I suspect we all believe deep down past the emotion of the case. As much as I believe he is guilty, it has to be proven in court before he loses just about everything he has including his freedom or his life. You know where I stand on all this stuff, I'm unwaivering when it comes to our rights and freedoms, even for the worst scumbags we must call fellow citizens.
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he would never get life, 5 years max, maybe just probation.

it is florida, after all.

at least he will get cleaned out in the civil suit.
 
UncleBuck said:
it was trayvon's gated community, too. no reason why a black person can't be in a private gated community (again, apologies for bringing in race, that was on zimmerman, not you).

he was within his rights to pursue martin, but he does lose his self defense under "stand your ground" laws. he is no longer standing his ground, he is aggressing.
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No, it was his Dads gated community, where he doesn't live, where he was only staying because he'd been suspended from school for 10 days.

The "oh so innocent" Treyvon wasn't from there, and from an article I read with some of his Facebook and Twitter entries its clear he's also pot dealer who one entry states beat a bus driver a few weeks prior to his murder.

Is the neighbourhood watch guy really so bad for approaching (what appears to him) as a stranger who was just walking around? A stranger with a clearly questionable character, multiple tattoos and gold teeth?

Come on, his twitter name was "No_Limits_Nigga"...he's not just some innocent kid, and as Iv stated before its not a "cut and dried" case so it's premature to call for Zimmermans head.

EDIT: And I don't think he should've died, but as I said before, in a country with twice (or more) the amount of guns to people...what do you honestly expect to happen?
 
Canna Sylvan said:
I think you have Florida mixed up with Mississippi. They still had slave laws on the books until 20 years ago.
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this guy, the son of a sanford police lieutenant, didn't even face any consequences for this assault, which left a homeless man hospitalized after decking him from behind.

[video=youtube;eOMCKab3Uhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOMCKab3Uhg[/video]

the force is strong with this force.
 
UncleBuck said:
you're right, nigger deserved it for looking so black. just like women wearing skirts are asking to be raped, trayvon martin was asking to be killed just for looking a certain way.

did anyone mention he might have sold pot? on this website, that will surely earn the guy a lynching.

good Dog.
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Listen dude, you're after building a very racist strawman there, you need to make the moustache a little more square tho.

I never implied anything other than he's not the innocent little angel the media is making out, I listed a litany of reasons and you ignore them, and Bucky, as much as its unfortunate, most in the cannabis dealing game are high on "fame" and "pride" and usually quite violent.

I simply revealed a side to him otherwise ignored, you said all the racist shit, I didn't even mention he was black.
 
cliffey501 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayvon_Martin_Shooting_Call4.ogg

Listen to what this woman says at the end.
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someone with a white shirt on top?

did trayvon put on a hoodie over his white shirt after he was dead?

wasn't zimmerman wearing a red jacket, according to the report? is there a white shirt on underneath that jacket?

or is it simply the case that eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable?

or, was there a third person involved with a white shirt?

this is getting to be more interesting than JFK.
 
Harrekin said:
Listen dude, you're after building a very racist strawman there, you need to make the moustache a little more square tho.

I never implied anything other than he's not the innocent little angel the media is making out, I listed a litany of reasons and you ignore them, and Bucky, as much as its unfortunate, most in the cannabis dealing game are high on "fame" and "pride" and usually quite violent.

I simply revealed a side to him otherwise ignored, you said all the racist shit, I didn't even mention he was black.
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i know what you were doing, and i responded accordingly.

you and geraldo rivera would make awesome fuck buddies. that's all i'm going to say about your heaping pile of tripe.
 
UncleBuck said:
someone with a white shirt on top?

did trayvon put on a hoodie over his white shirt after he was dead?

wasn't zimmerman wearing a red jacket, according to the report? is there a white shirt on underneath that jacket?

or is it simply the case that eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable?

or, was there a third person involved with a white shirt?

this is getting to be more interesting than JFK.
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Common sense would tell me grey could easily be mistaken for white.Especially from a distance in the dark.Pretty hard to mistake red for white even in the dark.
 
cliffey501 said:
Common sense would tell me grey could easily be mistaken for white.Especially from a distance in the dark.Pretty hard to mistake red for white even in the dark.
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ok, so aside from your divine prognostication of how colors look in the dark, what else do we know?

oh, i know. eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable, as no one was dressed in white (unless zimmerman had a white shirt on under his jacket, which i'm going to say no to).
 
UncleBuck said:
i know what you were doing, and i responded accordingly.

you and geraldo rivera would make awesome fuck buddies. that's all i'm going to say about your heaping pile of tripe.
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What exactly was I doing? Looking at the situation from an outsiders objective point of view? Just run away cos you've no argument tho, it's fine ;)
 
Harrekin said:
What exactly was I doing? Looking at the situation from an outsiders objective point of view? Just run away cos you've no argument tho, it's fine ;)
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you were trying to say that trayvon martin shares some amount of blame for how he looked.

i've tried hard to keep race out of this thread, but certain asshats have insisted on dragging it in, unapologetically.

if you want, we can focus on the racial aspect to all of this, but it will only make zimmerman look like a racist monster based on the evidence we have.

i could go on at lengths about the psychology and studies and history behind the tragedy of this in terms of race. but i'm not.

i only want for justice to be brought, as it seems pretty clear that a major wrongdoing occurred here.

others want to indict the character of someone who was guilty of no more than looking black while being somewhere. seriously, don't make this about race.
 
UncleBuck said:
someone with a white shirt on top?

did trayvon put on a hoodie over his white shirt after he was dead?

wasn't zimmerman wearing a red jacket, according to the report? is there a white shirt on underneath that jacket?

or is it simply the case that eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable?

or, was there a third person involved with a white shirt?

this is getting to be more interesting than JFK.
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You keep saying how unreliable witness testimony is but you would like to see zimmerman locked up based on witness testimony?
Not even an eye witness an ear? witness.
 
cliffey501 said:
You keep saying how unreliable witness testimony is but you would like to see zimmerman locked up based on witness testimony?
Not even an eye witness an ear? witness.
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you're confused. not sure why.

i've made my case pretty clear here. let me repeat it for you.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

reconcile what we know now with that law and tell me if there are any tapes that show anyone calling a truce. there was open space to escape all around him, he pursued martin to that spot, he was not facing any "great bodily harm" even if it turns out that someone half his size was on top of him in the act of defending himself from an aggressor, there is no physical evidence of zimmerman having any injury, no thought placed into how a man shoots from underneath and gets no blood on him, the police drug tested and background checked the dead guy and did no such thing for the shooter, they correct statements being made to them instead of taking statements, they have a history of similarly shaded transactions....

you are the one staking your version all on notoriously unreliable eyewitness accounts.
 
i will say this though, if i am wrong, feel free to make the "i told you so" thread a stickey. i don't mind admitting if i am wrong, but i just don't think i am here.
 
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