The guy who signed the law said this? Was the guy who signed the law also the one who thought it all up and presented it also?
trayvan martin
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
cliffey501
Active Member
You mean this witness?
Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday."I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt Zimmerman who was on the ground.The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said."When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said.He then rushed inside and told his sister to call police.
Heres his witness account a few day after the above article
Austin was standing less than 20 yards away from Martin when he was shot on the night of February 26. He didn't see much that night, but says he can't shake the screams for help that he heard or the thunderclap of gunfire that nearly shook him from his shoes.
The screams rattle around in his daydreams, so loud at night that sleep hasn't come easily. And he can't stop asking himself a thousand what-ifs: What if he could have stopped it? What if he had looked "suspicious" that night, and not Martin?
"I picture myself back over where I saw it, and it sticks in the back of my mind," McLendon told HuffPost Black Voices on Saturday afternoon at his family's home. "Sometimes I'll, like, not be listening to the teacher, and I'll daydream or just think off about it. I've been feeling bad for him and his family."
Austin's mother, Sheryl Brown, said that the trauma from the night has not been limited to what her son witnessed. It also includes the way she says that the police and some media have twisted his account of the night to fit a self-defense theory, to say that a 13-year-old witness has claimed Zimmerman, and not Martin, was screaming for help. Both Austin and his mother are adamant that the teen could not see who was screaming, but they believe now that it was Martin.
Heres his witness account a few day after the above article
Austin was standing less than 20 yards away from Martin when he was shot on the night of February 26. He didn't see much that night, but says he can't shake the screams for help that he heard or the thunderclap of gunfire that nearly shook him from his shoes.
The screams rattle around in his daydreams, so loud at night that sleep hasn't come easily. And he can't stop asking himself a thousand what-ifs: What if he could have stopped it? What if he had looked "suspicious" that night, and not Martin?
"I picture myself back over where I saw it, and it sticks in the back of my mind," McLendon told HuffPost Black Voices on Saturday afternoon at his family's home. "Sometimes I'll, like, not be listening to the teacher, and I'll daydream or just think off about it. I've been feeling bad for him and his family."
Austin's mother, Sheryl Brown, said that the trauma from the night has not been limited to what her son witnessed. It also includes the way she says that the police and some media have twisted his account of the night to fit a self-defense theory, to say that a 13-year-old witness has claimed Zimmerman, and not Martin, was screaming for help. Both Austin and his mother are adamant that the teen could not see who was screaming, but they believe now that it was Martin.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
If I were Zimmerman, I'd leave the country and not tell anyone. He's not charged with a crime, so it's not fleeing.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
And so speaking to a stranger in your private gated community is considered "provoking use of force on yourself"?agreed.
but they gave him good advice. by ignoring it, zimmerman was no longer "standing his ground".
the justifiable use of force statute makes it very clear.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
Gtfo of town, that's bullshit Bucky and you know it.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
so, by following this kid around, he was NOT the aggressor?
GTFO of town, that's bullshit hairdo, and you know it (i assume you sport a mullet).
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
Okay, then you are taking the position that approaching someone and speaking to them is "Initially provoking the use of force against himself". Since all we know as an absolute fact is that Zim approached Trayvan and most likely used the spoken word in some manner, that seems like a stretch to me. If I go up to someone in my neighborhood and start a conversation, I have immediately surrendered my right to defend myself if attacked? Because, with the available information we have, that's all you can DEFINITIVELY say Zim did.agreed.
but they gave him good advice. by ignoring it, zimmerman was no longer "standing his ground".
the justifiable use of force statute makes it very clear.
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
That also has to mean that if approach and speech is reasonable provocation to expect force to be used against yourself, then I have legal precedent to beat the shit out of anyone that walks up to me and starts talking. That's where you're going off track, approach and speech does not satisfy the condition you listed.
tryingtogrow89
Well-Known Member
Go fucking figure, what a true racist.
tryingtogrow89
Well-Known Member
Probably would have been if zimmerman didnt have a gun. Oh the irony.
tryingtogrow89
Well-Known Member
If anyone except you said it even in a so called "facetious" manner you would never stop spouting about how racist that was, you sir are a true racist hypocrite.
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
I think what most likely happened, still needs to be proven obviously is that it was Trayvan screaming for help. Zim probably assaulted him, Trayvan was fighting back when the gun comes out. They roll around on the ground and Trayvan screams for help. The 13 yr old kid sees them at a point in the scuffle when Trayvan happens to be on top and eventually the bigger man gets the upper hand and gets on top. He shoots Trayvan and that's when the other witnesses see Zim on top. It's the most likely scenario and Zim is most likely a complete asshole that needs to spend most of his life in jail. CSI folks are pretty damned thorough, I don't think it will take them long to sort this one out.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
you're trying to make zimmerman out to be someone who just wanted to make small talk. the 911 tapes tell us that's not the case. all he knew (and i apologize for bringing in race) was that he was black. that's ALL he knew, and that computed to suspicion. he clearly makes what sounds to almost everyone like a racial slur.
he was not simply approaching him to talk, he was aggressing him after being told that he did not need to.
you're trying to make a saint out of zimmerman here, it ain't the case.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
that's true, don't forget the highly paid lawyers who decide what story to present about intents and motives.
it's pretty clear that zimmerman's intent was not as innocent as you are saying it is (i know, you are playing devil's advocate to some degree).
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
I'm eating some Spree in Skittles boy'd memory.
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
You got me all wrong UB. Look at my post that went up before you posted this one. I think you're right, I think Zim is guilty, I've said that all along. I'm was simply pointing out more info needs to come out before we call for his head. The Duke LaCrosse incident is still fresh in my mind.
tryingtogrow89
Well-Known Member
Your attempt of hiding your racism isn't fooling anyone.ah, the racist's favorite tactic: i'm not racist, YOU ARE!
lol.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Lol, I don't have the hair left to grow a mullet, a heridetary genetic flaw ensured that
But seriously dude, put your emotions away for a minute... approaching someone to ask why they're in your PRIVATE GATED community is not an act of aggression, he was perfectly within his rights to do that, if he attacked Skittle Boy in some way that's a different story, but it's too inconclusive at the minute.
I will be cheeky and ask what do you expect to occur in a country with basically no gun control?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i get that you're saying this to play devil's advocate for whatever reason, but it is just dangerous to try to tell people that acting as zimmerman did is still compatible with "standing your ground".
tryingtogrow89
Well-Known Member
The attacker was subdued and no bystanders or property was damaged, sounds like pretty good gun control to me.Lol, I don't have the hair left to grow a mullet, a heridetary genetic flaw ensured that
But seriously dude, put your emotions away for a minute... approaching someone to ask why they're in your PRIVATE GATED community is not an act of aggression, he was perfectly within his rights to do that, if he attacked Skittle Boy in some way that's a different story, but it's too inconclusive at the minute.
I will be cheeky and ask what do you expect to occur in a country with basically no gun control?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
it was trayvon's gated community, too. no reason why a black person can't be in a private gated community (again, apologies for bringing in race, that was on zimmerman, not you).
he was within his rights to pursue martin, but he does lose his self defense under "stand your ground" laws. he is no longer standing his ground, he is aggressing.