I
Illegal Smile
Guest
As Maine goes, so goes the nation. LOL
About that feeling you have, I suggest a laxative.
About that feeling you have, I suggest a laxative.
CrackerJax
New Member
Every state that has tried it...has met with disaster.
So let's all fail together.
That's some kind of super genius logic.
So let's all fail together.
That's some kind of super genius logic.
ink the world
Well-Known Member
As Maine goes, so goes the nation. LOL
About that feeling you have, I suggest a laxative.
Yeah LOL. Maine is a great example of a moderate state. We have Republican senators and Obama won by a landslide here. It has nothing to do with any state in particular though.
No matter how you wanna twist the polls, one thing is clear. Americans are split on the issue. There isnt a huge swing one way or the other. Those opposed, as always; just seem to scream about it the loudest.
As far as "cramming" it down the Republicans throats, where is the Republican plan? Why do Republicans walk away once one thing doesnt go there way?
As an Independant, it seems that the biggest problem is that Republicans refuse to work w/ Obama on anything at all. It seems that the Repubs. arent willing to make any concessions at all. They seem to be intent on stalling every bill they can.
CrackerJax
New Member
Americans are NOT split on the issue. The left wing of the dem party has simply decided to go it alone. That's good governing.... right?
This is nothing new..... universal govt health care has been proposed for many decades, and the ppl REPEATEDLY are smart enough to say NO.
There is no split.
This is nothing new..... universal govt health care has been proposed for many decades, and the ppl REPEATEDLY are smart enough to say NO.
There is no split.
ink the world
Well-Known Member
No split huh?
"MENLO PARK, Calif., Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The latest Kaiser Tracking Poll finds the public still split on health care reform legislation, with 43 percent in favor and 43 percent opposed"
A new NEWSWEEK Poll shows that while a majority of Americans say they oppose Obama's plan, a majority actually support the key features of the legislation. The findings support the notion that Democrats have not done a good job of selling the package and that opponents have been successful in framing the debate. The more people know about the legislation, the more likely they are to support major components of it.
Taken from the Newsweek poll:
a. Requiring that all Americans have health insurance,
with the government providing financial help to
those who can’t afford it
Favor: 59% Oppose: 36%
b. Requiring most businesses to offer health insurance
to their employees, with tax incentives for small
business owners to do so
Favor: 76% Oppose: 20%
Requiring health insurance companies to cover
anyone who applies, even if they have a pre-existing
medical condition
Favor: 76% Oppose: 19%
Creating a government-administered public health
insurance option to compete with private plans
Favor: 50% Oppose: 42%
Now please think about the proposals I just described to you. ALL of these proposals are included in Barack
Obama’s health care reform plan. Having heard these details, what is your OVERALL opinion of Obama’s plan –
do you favor it or oppose it?
Favor: 48% Oppose : 43%
Like I said, the loudest voices. The problem is that the loudest voices get to people that dont learn about the actual bill. Once they learn whats inside, they favor it. So I guess you are right, there is no split
dukeofbaja
New Member
FALSE!
Hawaii has a moderate form of universal health care, everyone there loves it and the facts show it works. To say that Hawaiian health care has been 'met with disaster' would be even more unjustifiable than cigarettes that fill out 1040's. It is some of the most ridiculous babble out there and just goes to show....
YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
So leave this debate to those that actually want to improve our system, not just lob insults and lies
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
Let's be clear about what this means. it means people say - sure it would be nice to have those things. it doesn't mean they are ready to buy them. You could do a poll on whether people would like to have vacation homes and sailboats too and they would say yes. But they aren't ready to sign the mortgage.No split huh?
"MENLO PARK, Calif., Feb. 23 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The latest Kaiser Tracking Poll finds the public still split on health care reform legislation, with 43 percent in favor and 43 percent opposed"
A new NEWSWEEK Poll shows that while a majority of Americans say they oppose Obama's plan, a majority actually support the key features of the legislation. The findings support the notion that Democrats have not done a good job of selling the package and that opponents have been successful in framing the debate. The more people know about the legislation, the more likely they are to support major components of it.
Taken from the Newsweek poll:
a. Requiring that all Americans have health insurance,
with the government providing financial help to
those who cant afford it
Favor: 59% Oppose: 36%
b. Requiring most businesses to offer health insurance
to their employees, with tax incentives for small
business owners to do so
Favor: 76% Oppose: 20%
Requiring health insurance companies to cover
anyone who applies, even if they have a pre-existing
medical condition
Favor: 76% Oppose: 19%
Creating a government-administered public health
insurance option to compete with private plans
Favor: 50% Oppose: 42%
Now please think about the proposals I just described to you. ALL of these proposals are included in Barack
Obamas health care reform plan. Having heard these details, what is your OVERALL opinion of Obamas plan
do you favor it or oppose it?
Favor: 48% Oppose : 43%
Like I said, the loudest voices. The problem is that the loudest voices get to people that dont learn about the actual bill. Once they learn whats inside, they favor it. So I guess you are right, there is no split
CrackerJax
New Member
What's NOT explained to those pollsters is the cost, nor the efficiency of monies applied.
No one wants govt. health care that isn't either on the dole, or has a govt. job.
No one wants govt. health care that isn't either on the dole, or has a govt. job.
ChChoda
Well-Known Member
YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20100217_State_to_delay_paying_for_health_coverage.html
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Feb 17, 2010
excerpt-
State payments totaling about $90 million a month to five insurance plans providing health coverage for low-income residents will be delayed in May and June, and possibly April, says state Human Services Director Lillian Koller.
The delays come on top of deferrals in December and January payments because the federal share of funds could not be accessed.
Delayed payments over several months could force suspension of services or even closure of some health centers, which serve a disproportionate share of Medicaid beneficiaries, said Beth Giesting, executive director of the Hawaii Primary Care Association, which represents community health centers.
The proposed payment delays result from "just not having enough money appropriated to us to make full payment, primarily because of increased enrollment (in the plans)," Koller said last week.
dukeofbaja
New Member
So, this is a projection for disaster which is yet to happen and likely never will. Come back when you have some facts showing the plan they have had in place for 30+ years which insures 95% of their citizens has been an abject failure. Otherwise you are just another person running around screaming that the sky is falling when it is not.
ChChoda
Well-Known Member
No, it's a newspaper article from Hawaii's Star Bulletin dating February 17, 2010, stating the facts of the current financial situation of Med-QUEST (government administered medical insurance). And they ain't purty...
As for the state of Hawaii's "plan" insuring 95% of the citizens of Hawaii, can you prove that? Because it's patently false. I can prove that.
CrackerJax
New Member
If you want Government health care ... then you want rationing.
Great Britain's health care has been in place more than 30 years, and it's in a shambles.
Oh, and rationing is EVERYWHERE. Even the doctors are rationed.
Lack of common sense.
Great Britain's health care has been in place more than 30 years, and it's in a shambles.
Oh, and rationing is EVERYWHERE. Even the doctors are rationed.
Lack of common sense.
dukeofbaja
New Member
So, the three week waits to see a doctor in Britain are worse than the three week waits I experienced on my private plans with Cigna and Kaiser? Or is it the fact that they pay less for it?
dukeofbaja
New Member
Sorry, it's about 90% of Hawaiians who have health insurance. A good portion of that though is due to high unemployment right now, since anyone who works 20 hours a week is insured. They also seem to pay a lot less than most any other state, despite having higher cost of living than most any other state. Hmmmmm......
see, this is why ignorance is bliss.
the truth is that in GB if you get chest pain, and need to see a neumologist, you'll go to a neumologist, he sees you, follows up, and you're taken care of. at no cost to you.
in the US, if you get a chest pain, you go to the neumologist ONCE. he quickly leans over to his desk, which is covered with Advair pens, Advair Pencil holders, Proventil staples, and he gives you one of the many free-sample medicines he gets as a gift from Pharmaceutical companies and your off, after a 200 dollar deductible. A week later a call is made to you by your insurance company that says that you are no longer covered for the neumologists visits. huh? why?? they say that in a medical exam 12 years ago you're blood pressure was what can be considered "abnormally low". that could indicate that you were in need of blood pressure medication, which, if administered to you, had a 60% chance of preventing your current condition, so it qualifies as a pre-existing condition.
and this is coming from personal experience so don't even try to deny this shit because I know it's true.
it just hasn't happened to you. yet.
so England is rationing doctors because they don't have enough.
In the US we have enough doctors to go around, what gets rationed is the care you receive, and it gets rationed by insurance companies, who make record profits year after year.
so if health care costs are going up, and premiums go up to match it, how come earnings keep getting bigger and bigger??
because each time they make record-breaking profits, they are providing quality care to less and less people, that's how........
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Now please think about the proposals I just described to you. ALL of these proposals are included in Barack
Obamas health care reform plan. Having heard these details, what is your OVERALL opinion of Obamas plan
do you favor it or oppose it?
Favor: 48% Oppose : 43%
"
The key being "Barrack Obama's health care reform"
We ALL KNOW that is gonna be paid for by us. Most (48% to be exact)of us would rather have reform. Period.
First you wanted to say there was a huge divide, that MOST of us dont want health care. You were wrong and I easily and happily pointed that out to you.
Then you go into conservative freakout mode and start your attempt to twist the polling to your favor. "What's NOT explained to those pollsters is the cost, nor the efficiency of monies applied"
So now the public is so naive that they think insurance policies will be delivered by the insurance fairy?
No. They just would rather have an option of which insurance they purchase (most don't now, you know that).
The current market is NOT a free market. People dont have choices. It's overpay for this shitty insurance or go without.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
If you really believe that then go ahead and celebrate, we don't mind.
ChChoda
Well-Known Member
Try 19%. That's 249,875 people. And the systems broke. And it's in large part subsidized by the feds. Extrapolate that nationally, with foreign lenders as the sugar daddy.
http://www.med-quest.us/PDFs/queststatistics/2010 QUEST ENROLLMENT.PDF
http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/census/population-estimate
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Im gonna break down how you and most so called conservatives "argue" your point.
1. Make a baseless, factless claim
2. Hope you dont get caught or that anyone notices
3. If they do, change the subject, twist the facts or shout louder
4. If all else fails invoke 9/11 or call the person presenting FACTS a socialist, communist or unpatriotic.
Also wrong is the approval of the program which was in the poll numbers.
Today's AP article on stimulus.
WASHINGTON (AP) The economic stimulus law added between 1 million to 2.1 million workers to employment rolls by the end of last year, a new report released Tuesday by congressional economists said.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office study also said the $862 billion stimulus added between 1.5 to 3.5 percentage points to the growth of the economy in 2009. The controversial stimulus law combined tax breaks for individuals and businesses with lots of government spending.
The report reflects agreement among economists that the measure boosted the economy.
That's just taken from your first 3 posts on this discussion. No need to go further, I think we all see the point.
1. Make a baseless, factless claim
2. Hope you dont get caught or that anyone notices
3. If they do, change the subject, twist the facts or shout louder
4. If all else fails invoke 9/11 or call the person presenting FACTS a socialist, communist or unpatriotic.
Wrong. I already addressed that w/ the Newsweek poll. Your numbers aren't even close.
Wrong again, the document is a whopping 12 pages.
Also wrong is the approval of the program which was in the poll numbers.
Dead on wrong again man, You never disappoint. Your really should consider news sources outside conervative talk radio and Fox News.
Today's AP article on stimulus.
WASHINGTON (AP) The economic stimulus law added between 1 million to 2.1 million workers to employment rolls by the end of last year, a new report released Tuesday by congressional economists said.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office study also said the $862 billion stimulus added between 1.5 to 3.5 percentage points to the growth of the economy in 2009. The controversial stimulus law combined tax breaks for individuals and businesses with lots of government spending.
The report reflects agreement among economists that the measure boosted the economy.
That's just taken from your first 3 posts on this discussion. No need to go further, I think we all see the point.