CrackerJax
New Member
Uhhh....the civil war was fought over states rights as opposed to federal rights.... guess who won.... it wasn't the states.
dukeofbaja
New Member
CrackerJax:
The fact that it eludes you is precisely the goal of the government. Stealth tax.
We are in almost full agreement here, it is a great way for them to collect more money from people, not sure how stealthy it is. I certainly realize that I am paying $5.89 for a pack of smokes nowadays, instead of $3 or so.
But tobacco is not an individual. It is a product. My point is simply that Obama did not break his promise about not taxing indivduals earning less than 200K or families earnig less than 250K. He signed off on putting a tax on a harmful product that costs even those who do not smoke in the end. And like I said, there are many ways to avoid paying this tax, unlike your 1040. You can quit, buy online from abroad, or go to a reservation. Again, this is one promise he did not break. I am pissed he has broken so many others, but no dice in this arena.
The fact that it eludes you is precisely the goal of the government. Stealth tax.
We are in almost full agreement here, it is a great way for them to collect more money from people, not sure how stealthy it is. I certainly realize that I am paying $5.89 for a pack of smokes nowadays, instead of $3 or so.
But tobacco is not an individual. It is a product. My point is simply that Obama did not break his promise about not taxing indivduals earning less than 200K or families earnig less than 250K. He signed off on putting a tax on a harmful product that costs even those who do not smoke in the end. And like I said, there are many ways to avoid paying this tax, unlike your 1040. You can quit, buy online from abroad, or go to a reservation. Again, this is one promise he did not break. I am pissed he has broken so many others, but no dice in this arena.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
The War Between the States started the ball rolling that's for sure. It settled the question of secession.
The U.S. government has been raping the Constitution since before the Wilson Administration. I would love to see the U.S. Government operate within the confines of the Constitution.
Unfortunately, the decent into Fascism has been steady and insidious, especially since the FDR era. Both parties are guilty.
Which is why the founders established a Republic. Democracy is a slow boat to Totalitarianism.
I don't have to like it. And I do not have to stand mute as it continues, either.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
The pack of smokes does not pay the tax. The individual purchasing said pack pays the taxes. Ergo, Obama's tobacco tax increase affected individuals who use tobacco.
One should not be compelled to travel to a Reservation or commit tax evasion just to keep Obama from being a liar.
This is not so hard to understand.
Obama broke his promise. Just one of many he broke.
You just refuse to accept it.
dukeofbaja
New Member
You might see in my post I have no problem admitting when Obama breaks a promise.
I do have a problem with people who think plants fill out 1040's in a stubborn effort to support a statement that was foolish in the first place.
By the way, buying cigarettes online is not tax evasion. Perhaps you should consider using facts.
I do have a problem with people who think plants fill out 1040's in a stubborn effort to support a statement that was foolish in the first place.
By the way, buying cigarettes online is not tax evasion. Perhaps you should consider using facts.
dukeofbaja
New Member
And also, let's take a look at this:
The fed increased tobacco taxes about $0.60, approximately.
I smoke a pack a day, over one year, about $200 more.
My rate of tax, after I calulate my refund (or tax to pay), is about 21.1% on $28,000.
During the Bush years, it averaged from 22.2 - 22.9% on $24,000 - $26,500.
1.1% of $28,000 is $308 or so
1.8% of $28,000 is $404 or so
$404-$200 = $204 (savings)
$308-$200 = $108 (savings)
Boy, all these socialist tax rates sure are making it hard for us lower middle class folk
The fed increased tobacco taxes about $0.60, approximately.
I smoke a pack a day, over one year, about $200 more.
My rate of tax, after I calulate my refund (or tax to pay), is about 21.1% on $28,000.
During the Bush years, it averaged from 22.2 - 22.9% on $24,000 - $26,500.
1.1% of $28,000 is $308 or so
1.8% of $28,000 is $404 or so
$404-$200 = $204 (savings)
$308-$200 = $108 (savings)
Boy, all these socialist tax rates sure are making it hard for us lower middle class folk
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Who said a plant fills out a tax form?
Apparently that is your stupid fantasy.
I am the one stressing that inanimate objects do not pay taxes, individuals do.
It's time for you to open mouth and insert foot - again.
From the National Association of Attorneys General:
http://www.naag.org/attorneys_general_lorillard_reach_landmark_agreement.php
CrackerJax
New Member
Look how many posts it takes to explain a VERY SIMPLE concept.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Even simple concepts are too onerous for a simple mind.
CrackerJax
New Member
Good thing health care is a simple issue ...huh.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Who said a plant fills out a tax form? Apparently that is your stupid fantasy.
Actually, the continuing to push that 'stupid fantasy' is you. Let me speak slowly here, so you might understand.
1. You argued that Obama broke his campaign promise, which was to not raise federal income taxes on families making less than 250K or individuals making less than 200K.
2. The example you used to make your case was that the federal government raised taxes on tobacco products.
3. In order for your argument to ring true, you would have to define tobacco products as a family making less than 250K or an individual making less than 200K. Which they are neither.
Not to mention, you don't have to pay the tax! You can quit smoking or get cigarettes from elsewhere.
So unless you want to define tobacco products as a family making less than 250K or an individual making less than 200K, shut the fuck up! Your example was for shit and you are wrong!
Actually, the continuing to push that 'stupid fantasy' is you. Let me speak slowly here, so you might understand.
1. You argued that Obama broke his campaign promise, which was to not raise federal income taxes on families making less than 250K or individuals making less than 200K.
2. The example you used to make your case was that the federal government raised taxes on tobacco products.
3. In order for your argument to ring true, you would have to define tobacco products as a family making less than 250K or an individual making less than 200K. Which they are neither.
Not to mention, you don't have to pay the tax! You can quit smoking or get cigarettes from elsewhere.
So unless you want to define tobacco products as a family making less than 250K or an individual making less than 200K, shut the fuck up! Your example was for shit and you are wrong!
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
And for your benefit I will type slowly so you may try to understand.
Where have I stated that a plant, or a pack of cigarettes, pays taxes?
Wrong. I never stipulated income only, and neither did Obuma. Again, for your benefit, I repost a direct quote previously posted.
He lied. Accept it.
That is correct. The Federal government raised taxes on tobacco products. Thus the tax is, in turn, paid by individuals who use tobacco.
Wrong again.
I have stated repeatedly that inanimate objects do not pay taxes, individuals pay taxes. When the Federal government under Obama raised the Federal tobacco tax, individuals who smoke paid the additional taxes; not a plant, not a pack of smokes.
While it is true that anyone who chooses may quit smoking in order to avoid the tax increase, that's not really the point. People smoke, more to the point, a shitload of non-affluent people smoke.
And elsewhere is fine if one lives near an Indian reservation or chooses to break the law.
Your needle just keeps skipping over that scratch on the LP record.
You are either in denial or obtuse, possibly both.
And I will not shut the fuck up.
CrackerJax
New Member
He makes it so easy for politicians....
dukeofbaja
New Member
Quote:
I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. - Barack Hussein Obama
Sounds like all the taxes he was referring to were ones you pay when you fill out your 1040. I don't put cigarettes on my 1040. None of the taxes he was talking about have been raised. Promise kept, at least so far. Never good to trust a politician.
I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. - Barack Hussein Obama
Sounds like all the taxes he was referring to were ones you pay when you fill out your 1040. I don't put cigarettes on my 1040. None of the taxes he was talking about have been raised. Promise kept, at least so far. Never good to trust a politician.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
And it seems to me like he said, "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase."
No mention of Form 1040. Not at all.
An increase in the Federal tobacco tax that every individual smoker pays regardless of his income. That's how the Community Organizer keeps a firm pledge.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
ink the world
Well-Known Member
His version of Iraq?
No, not at all.
He didnt LIE to the Congress and the American people to get us behind it.
You guys crack me up man. First you have Republican talking heads complaining about how long the bill is. Remember that months ago?
Then yesterday they complained that there was only 12 pages in the Obama document. So, is it too long or too short?
Kind of like how they all wail on about how the stimulus didn't work, they wouldn't take money etc.
Then of course away from reporters guess what they did? They submitted written requests for stimulus funding, posed w/ the giant check at the photo -op, and patted themselves on the back for all the jobs they got for their constituents.
Current Republican politics= Hypocrisy
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
Not only did Obama lie about healthcare he is still lying today. They are intentionally misrepresenting cost and using accounting gimmickry. For example, the assumption built in is that Doctors are going to accept a 21% cut in reimbursement, even though everybody admits that will never happen. In fact, this is a $2 Trillion bill.His version of Iraq?
No, not at all.
He didnt LIE to the Congress and the American people to get us behind it.
You guys crack me up man. First you have Republican talking heads complaining about how long the bill is. Remember that months ago?
Then yesterday they complained that there was only 12 pages in the Obama document. So, is it too long or too short?
Kind of like how they all wail on about how the stimulus didn't work, they wouldn't take money etc.
Then of course away from reporters guess what they did? They submitted written requests for stimulus funding, posed w/ the giant check at the photo -op, and patted themselves on the back for all the jobs they got for their constituents.
Current Republican politics= Hypocrisy
By the way, Obama didn't "get us behind it" and he never will. The people are clearly opposed to Obamacare yet he is determined to govern against the will of the people.
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Youre right there , he didnt get us behind him. Many already were there. Im in Maine, home of Sen Collins.
Anthem announced the need for a 23% rate increase here and got shot down by the state. They now want 18% rate increase. People are angry w/ big insurance.
Collins is getting hammered at home about health care. People here want it, by a vast majority. She'll back some form of it or she wont survive the next election.
I have a feeling the same is gonna happen w/ more Repub. senators.