The Poorhouse: Aunt Winnie, Glenn Beck, And The Politics Of The New Deal

NLXSK1 said:

Before the government got into healthcare it wasnt costing me anything more... Kinda like before the government got into financial reform it was costing me less than now. Government takes on these burdens that are not constitutional and then uses them as an excuse to limit your choices and run your life.

Now, suddenly because it is a cost to society they have a duty to force people to be thinner. Yeah, that sounds like something the government should be doing... NOT!!!

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nobody will force anybody to be thinner. that's a LIE. you've been officially called out.

the tax credits and exchanges that will be offered will actually expand your choices on the health insurance you want. not limit them. another FALLACY.

2 lies in a 5 sentence post. that's 40% of what you posted. almost half of what you believe is not true.....

the government takes on burdens which are of concern to its constituents. they don't use them as an excuse to run your life, it's an attempt at improving it's quality.

NLXSK1 said:

Before the government got into healthcare it wasnt costing me anything more...

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not even close, my basement dwelling amigo.

perhaps you did not notice the cost of healthcare triple over the last 15 or so years. that would not surprise me as you express yourself on the level of a 12 year old.

you truly are the gift that keeps giving.

99% of what you say is not only wrong, it is so blithering and idiotic that it makes being merely wrong look like a step forward in the world.

edit - hey redivider, i pointed out a few things that were wrong too. his statement about financial reform is untrue as well. his batting average is certainly not major league worthy...

first of all, everybody needs health care at some point. the insurance mandate would just guarantee that it's paid for.

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This is patently false and total bullshit.

Your government has told you that it can take limited resources and funding and deliver unlimited benefits. And you buy it hook, line and sinker...

Absolute insanity....

redivider said:

first of all, everybody needs health care at some point. the insurance mandate would just guarantee that it's paid for.

'may or may not need' is a fallacy, a soundbite you keep repeating like the parrot you are.

and i didn't say administrative, i said ADVERTISING.

do you also think that buying car insurance also goes against everything this country stands for?? b/c if you're driving, you need insurance, and that drives the cost down....

and what our forefathers knew died with them. unless you are some kind of witch of course.

how much is too much?? how far is too far???

apparantely for you, the government is going too far when it wants to implement measures that would provide the majority of it's people with affordable health insurance when faced with the reality that nearly half of ALL bankruptcies are caused by health care costs, that there's millions and millions of people who can add to that statistic b/c they lack coverage, and that other countries have a better health care system that costs less per capita....

apparantely the government goes too far when it realizes the US is not the leader in a sector of it's economy and wants to make it so.

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Dude, please keep saying I'm parroting things! It makes me laugh! Can you possibly have an intelligent debate without resorting to elementary school tactics? I'm just curious. I've got news for ya. I was injured in the line of duty. I have health insurance and a firefighter's pension. It's kickass, but it doesn't cover everything and did you know that worker's comp doesn't cover permanent injuries? I didn't and learned it the hard way. Anyways, back to my point. I had a large metropolitan fire department with tens of millions of dollars in its quarterly budget, worker's comp, retirement health insurance and supplemental insurance from my wife's job. We were still driven into bankruptcy so having insurance is by no means a guarantee that you will not go bankrupt. It's really not that big a deal anyways. Humiliating at first but you get over that real quick.

As for you car insurance argument, it's not the same thing at all and you know it! Car insurance is to protect the bank's property (your car if you have an outstanding loan as most Americans do) and the other driver. It's not as much to protect YOU as an individual. When I'm driving my truck, I am driving a 4,000 lb. deadly weapon. If I hit a light pole or another car I am likely to do thousands of dollars in damage. That's if nobody gets injured. Injuries almost always guarantee a lawsuit, which ups the ante significantly! Whose property is at risk if I don't have insurance and get sick?

redivider said:

because their approach to health care goes beyond money. it goes beyond coverage. the swiss understand that being somewhat healthy contributes to a happy life.

in the US being healthy is not equated with being happy. in the US being RICH is equated to being happy, whether or not your healthy can ride in the back seat.

so yeah, their better health care isn't just coverage. it's a blend between affordability and lifestyle.

here in the US we have a serious lack of both.

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So explain again how Government mandated and run healthcare is going to change our lifestyles.

redivider said:

apparantely for you, the government is going too far when it wants to implement measures that would provide the majority of it's people with affordable health insurance when faced with the reality that nearly half of ALL bankruptcies are caused by health care costs, that there's millions and millions of people who can add to that statistic b/c they lack coverage, and that other countries have a better health care system that costs less per capita....

apparantely the government goes too far when it realizes the US is not the leader in a sector of it's economy and wants to make it so.

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How is health care going to be cheaper when you have to add on a layer of Bureaucratic BS on top of it? Its going to MORE EXPENSIVE!!!

redivider said:

the government takes on burdens which are of concern to its constituents. they don't use them as an excuse to run your life, it's an attempt at improving it's quality.

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The government does not take on burdens, they force YOU to take them on.

NLXSK1 said:

This is patently false and total bullshit.

Your government has told you that it can take limited resources and funding and deliver unlimited benefits. And you buy it hook, line and sinker...

Absolute insanity....

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I think this one sentence says more than an entire volume of encyclopedias on the subject could ever hope to convey! I suck at math but I can add. The numbers they are putting out simply don't add up. The alchemists of long ago learned that they couldn't turn lead into gold. I think the analogy fits perfectly.

NoDrama said:

So explain again how Government mandated and run healthcare is going to change our lifestyles.

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i can't explain the mechanics of it.

it's just the way it seems to happen.

NLXSK1 said:

This is patently false and total bullshit.

Your government has told you that it can take limited resources and funding and deliver unlimited benefits. And you buy it hook, line and sinker...

Absolute insanity....

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no it didn't.

some pundit or blogger said the government said it can take limited resources and blah blah blah. they also didn't promise to give unlimited benefits.

what the government did was say it was going to try and fix a broken system.

see, that post is 100% false. you're not doing yourself any favors by spreading this bullshit.

redivider said:

no it didn't.

some pundit or blogger said the government said it can take limited resources and blah blah blah. they also didn't promise to give unlimited benefits.

what the government did was say it was going to try and fix a broken system.

see, that post is 100% false. you're not doing yourself any favors by spreading this bullshit.

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You said AND I QUOTE!!!

the insurance mandate would just guarantee that it's paid for.

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Guarantee that the healthcare is paid for. All the healthcare = unlimited benefits...

You said it. If you want to accuse someone of spreading bullshit then look in the mirror...

redivider said:

i can't explain the mechanics of it.

it's just the way it seems to happen.

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I thought you were the uber-intelligent college boy with all the answers. Go ahead and try to explain. I can wait. I'm very patient.

Is this kind of like how congress said, and I'm paraphrasing "We haven't read what's in the bill. Why would we want to do that? Our glorious leader says it will fix the problem so just sit back and let the grownups fix the awful mess you've gotten yourselves into." Now, before you go calling me a "liar" and saying something like "That's complete bullshit!" or "100% false!" I want you to realize that I am just making a point. Simply adding a bit of humor to make my posts more palatable to the masses.

NoDrama said:

How is health care going to be cheaper when you have to add on a layer of Bureaucratic BS on top of it? Its going to MORE EXPENSIVE!!!

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it'll be cheaper b/c more ppl will be buying into the system. result?? lower premiums needed to cover the costs, and most probably little to no deductibles.

how can that be so hard to understand?? it works in other countries and it can work here too.

redivider said:

no it didn't.

some pundit or blogger said the government said it can take limited resources and blah blah blah. they also didn't promise to give unlimited benefits.

what the government did was say it was going to try and fix a broken system.

see, that post is 100% false. you're not doing yourself any favors by spreading this bullshit.

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Here you go again! Jeez man! What pundit or blogger said that? Please enlighten us! Links or some sort of proof or that statement is complete bullshit, just like you accuse everybody else who doesn't share your "superior" views of spreading.

redivider said:

it'll be cheaper b/c more ppl will be buying into the system. result?? lower premiums needed to cover the costs, and most probably little to no deductibles.

how can that be so hard to understand?? it works in other countries and it can work here too.

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You do understand that the compulsatory insurance is simply another re-distribution of wealth right?

Younger people will have to pay insurance and pay higher rates to subsidize the elderly and the sick yet again.

This gives them less purchasing power when they are young and need the money.

Besides the fact that it is unconstitutional it is immoral.

redivider said:

it'll be cheaper b/c more ppl will be buying into the system. result?? lower premiums needed to cover the costs, and most probably little to no deductibles.

how can that be so hard to understand?? it works in other countries and it can work here too.

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So, IF the insurance mandate stays, and that is a big IF, you don't think there will be people who say "fuck you" to the government and just chance the fines? That is the financially smart thing to do. Not saying it's the responsible thing but Americans aren't so big on responsibility these days. What about the enormous layer of bureaucracy as mentioned by NoDrama? Do you really think that advertising costs and clerical "bullshit" would come close to equalling the waste and fraud that is rampant in so many entitlement programs?

redivider said:

it'll be cheaper b/c more ppl will be buying into the system. result?? lower premiums needed to cover the costs, and most probably little to no deductibles.

how can that be so hard to understand?? it works in other countries and it can work here too.

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If the main problem is that so many people are so poor that they can't afford health insurance now, how is forcing them to pay for it going to affect other areas of their lives? Will the poor now actually have to live outside because the cost of the government mandated insurance is too expensive and they cannot afford to pay rent or a mortgage?

You could try to make the same argument for Government Guaranteed school loans made to students who attend college too, but it didn't drive the cost of college down, it drove it sky high. Yet you had more people attending college than ever before.

Unintended consequences?

NLXSK1 said:

You said AND I QUOTE!!!



Guarantee that the healthcare is paid for. All the healthcare = unlimited benefits...

You said it. If you want to accuse someone of spreading bullshit then look in the mirror...

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you are extrapolating information that was not there but i'll dance:

it is possible for all the health care to be paid for if there was a government run plan. it is possible to have a society where you can go to the doctor or hospital and never see a bill. its possible that only a small fee be charged in every doctor visit, regardless of condition or procedure. it happens in other countries, they love it, and they mock america for not doing the same thing.

redivider said:

you are extrapolating information that was not there but i'll dance:

it is possible for all the health care to be paid for if there was a government run plan. it is possible to have a society where you can go to the doctor or hospital and never see a bill. its possible that only a small fee be charged in every doctor visit, regardless of condition or procedure. it happens in other countries, they love it, and they mock america for not doing the same thing.

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America used to be a leader, not a follower. Too bad the liberals want to turn it into France...

redivider said:

you are extrapolating information that was not there but i'll dance:

it is possible for all the health care to be paid for if there was a government run plan. it is possible to have a society where you can go to the doctor or hospital and never see a bill. its possible that only a small fee be charged in every doctor visit, regardless of condition or procedure. it happens in other countries, they love it, and they mock america for not doing the same thing.

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Do the doctors still get paid the same exorbitant amounts as they do now? Or will they have to take a pay cut to help bring costs down?