The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread

since1991

Well-Known Member
Yep. Ditch the air pumps. I knew thats what Canna would tell you. Theyve said it before. Ive been growing for almost 30 years. And unless your dwc or some other recirculating water culture system... air pumps in tanks (especailly heavily organic additive and myco tanks) are asking for trouble. Even with recirculating water based systems I would just use a standard base nute and no additives except hydrogen peroxide when using air pumps. Your Canna line with the addys are fine sitting in a dtw tank for 5 to 7 days. If you size the tank right and have the feed times set right..you should be ready for a fresh tank and reset by then anyways. Good Luck.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
I'm going to just put a water pump on a cycle timer 2 min on 1hour off

IL report back with Temps and slime report and what I added
Your going to have residue no matter what with the Canna organic addys in there. Or any other nute line with the addys. I clean my tanks and pumps once a month. Mostly dusty mucky black and brown humic/fulvic acids that settle out of solution. You might wanna think twice about even stirring with a smaller water pump. They add heat. Heated water holds less oxygen. I think your worrying about a trivial issue to be honest. I would clean out the tanks..refill with cold water and reset according to the Canna light/normal feed chart and be done with it. Size the tank or solution level to be refilled and reset every 5 to 7 days. Also..I think 1.6 EC is almost certainly too strong for your plants still in veg. A sweeter spot (my guess - I dont know your conditions) is closer to 1.2 or 1.3 EC.
 
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Cx2H

Well-Known Member
Here is what canna had to say


Re: CANNA Form Submission


The first thing I'd recommend is ditch the air pump, it has no place in the reservoir, especially that you have a very powerful one.

What the air pump does is push and diffuse into solution a ton of airborne microbes, bacteria, fungi etc... all of which are likely to be the source of the slimy build up you are seeing.
Secondly, above 22c you are favoring the development of such microbes. [clean that tank and equipment very well with a 1:10 bleach solution when you get a chance]

We do need to have circulation in the tank (ideally taking water at the bottom and releasing it at the top), to prevent stagnation, a 640 gph pump in a small 25gal tank is more than enough to to so.
that pump is likely to be generating that extra heat we don't want, perhaps have it on a timer? or cyclestat like 1 minute on 15 minutes off... or whatever
nutrient solution does not need to be continuously stirred either.

Another side of air pumps that is detrimental and likely to cause what you are seeing in terms of ppm drop and lime dust, is that it pushes through the water
ambient CO2, which will change in the water, as it will find acids (H+), into carbonic acid (H2CO3) [water is said to be H2O, but really it is rarely and just briefly in that state
it is really more of a soup of H+ and OH- the more H+ you have the lower the pH is, the more the OH- the more alkaline it is; with an absolute very theoretical state of H2O at pH7.0, which is said to be neutral, as nutrient solution are preferred at ±pH 6.0, plenty of H+ are available]

Sidenote on RO water:
RO water, because it lacks hardness, has this swing dance between H+ and OH- like an Elvis concert, switching from side to side non stop. RO water as it buffers itself will grab nutrients out of the solution, and to some extent they will disappear and not register anymore on the ppm meter, a very weird and still unexplained phenomenon which gray headed chemists still argue over when drunk as it makes no logical sense. (briefly put, you have 0 ppm water, you add 10 ppm to it and it stills registers 0 ppm... really damn weird clusterfuck right there, some call it the water hole, like a black hole, but how it is possible for it to happen is yet unknown)

ok back on track.....
Carbonic acid H2CO3, will want to neutralize itself and likes to find calcium and magnesium to do so. Ending up with calcium carbonate (CaCO3) after ditching the two acids (H+) and so on and on... all of it is somewhat normal, we just don't want to speed things up too much as all this can happen quite fast, especially that your tank has exceptional stirring power, massive air intake and heat (which is a catalyst to chemical reactions).

[note: I've skipped some steps in the chemical action of it all, 1 not to bore you out, 2 because I only had two coffee so far and need to wake up still a bit more. But the end result is what counts]

Now we need not to over react, a slight drop of PPM (±100) can be expected as it is well within the accuracy range of PPM meters (no matter what the box claims, unless you paid 1000$+ for it)
Those slimy microbes also feed on nutrients, could they take out 100 ppm overnight? I do not know, seems quick but your water is hot and if the tank gets covered in slime overnight these little
slimetards did eat something to grow a texture... However this will be made worst over time as those slimy creep will colonize your pump and hoses and some of them might actually bad for your plants.
You do not want to be breeding pythium, fusarium or other root pathogen in your feeding lines...


Ditch the air pump, not only it is not needed, but it actually adds more problem than it does oxygen. Once that nutrient is delivered to the coco, the porosity of the medium
will provide way more aeration that the extra 1 or 2% the solution can actually hold. Massively diffusing airborn crap into your nutrient solution defeats the purpose of having a UV light on your water source too.

fact is, reducing your solution temperature will increase the soluble oxygen levels way more, but it will still be irrelevant once applied to the porous medium.

Air Pumps are part of old school (pre-internet era) myths, like peroxide and all the other crazy stuff growers used to do beforescience became available to hobbyist. Myths that are
pushed today by internet gurus who claimthat they have been trained for ages by the gods of weed or something...

Air Pumps are only essential if you are growing in deep water culture systems, but they bring the same kind of problems (microbial growth and nutrient falling off)
This is why people who do DWC, have very few successful crop in lifetime the other reason is water leaks getting them busted.
beside, the kind of plants you are growing are considered "semi-arid", so growing them in a bubbly swamp is not a great idea to begin with.


Hope this helped!

Cheers!
@since1991 called it.

I got an ionizer in the room right above the res so germs die. I don't have no problems with mine so I apologize if I am not on point. Didn't think about the variable's.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
@since1991 called it.

I got an ionizer in the room right above the res so germs die. I don't have no problems with mine so I apologize if I am not on point. Didn't think about the variable's.
Every system operation and grower is unique and different. Aerating your tanks work for you. I got grower pals that grow like me. Drain to waste with tanks/timer/drip manifold amd use coco coir amd rockwool blocks/slabs as the substrate medium. But some got air pumps blasting air stones. Works for them. But for alot of cats...its a no no. Especially high co2 rooms. You could be blowing in alot more carbon dioxide to oxygen than you want which opens up a whole slew of problems. Even if you tanks and/or pumps are outside of where the co2 gas is being dispersed. Leakage amd whatnot. Over the years and in general I found that keeping things simple as you can with hydroponic based systems is the best route. Limits the variables. And for newer growers they have enough shit to figure out. They dont need more. Certainly dont want to be brewing an unknown compost tea in your nutrient feed tanks. Which is in essence what you may be doing.
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
Perfect.

I usually add Luke warm water. Probably over half comes from my hot water tank I suppose. That's probably a nono too?


Thanks for clearing all that up guys. Saved me alot of work Thankyou
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
I'm using cold fresh water and put an aquarium heater at 74 because it's ice cold and I need to feed.. Like an hour ago

And a small water pump to move itaround
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Try and keep solution tank temps about 65 to 70 degrees. Perfect. My basement and tanks outside the grow rooms are 50 - 55 without heater probes. I got to use 4 of em this time of year. Titanium..fully submersible. Active Aqua brand. Alot of growers dont realize how crucial nutrient solution water temps are for indoor hydroponics. But it is. Root zones dont like cold ass temps that slow growth to a crawl in winter nor warm temps above 75 in the summer that are doorways to a full blown pythium root rot infection.
 
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projectinfo

Well-Known Member
They look really happy now their back down to light feed schedule, thanks for the help, here's some praying pics haha

The last pic is the top of the coco pot.

Roots are blasting out upwards all over the top of the pot. I've got highhopes ;)

Think it might be smart to throw some clay balls on there to block light and prevent drying a little

DSC_0709.JPG DSC_0710.JPG DSC_0711.JPG DSC_0713.JPG DSC_0712.JPG
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
They look really happy now their back down to light feed schedule, thanks for the help, here's some praying pics haha

The last pic is the top of the coco pot.

Roots are blasting out upwards all over the top of the pot. I've got highhopes ;)

Think it might be smart to throw some clay balls on there to block light and prevent drying a little

View attachment 4090679 View attachment 4090680 View attachment 4090681 View attachment 4090682 View attachment 4090683
If you have a problem with fungus gnats...you could use an inch or 2 smaller sized Grow Stones brand or even perlite to top up to the rim of the pots intead of clay balls. Makes it harder for the flyers to get in there and lay the little larvae that will feast on your roots. I get fg all the time and ive done this before. With yellow sticky cards at pot level to catch flyers too. I hate them little fukers.
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
If you have a problem with fungus gnats...you could use an inch or 2 smaller sized Grow Stones brand or even perlite to top up to the rim of the pots intead of clay balls. Makes it harder for the flyers to get in there and lay the little larvae that will feast on your roots. I get fg all the time and ive done this before. With yellow sticky cards at pot level to catch flyers too. I hate them little fukers.
No bugs yet.. Knock on wood..

Just trying to be proactive. I've got lots of perlite and sticky cards.

:) a little prevention goes a long way and this is my first run in coco
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Yep. Ditch the air pumps. I knew thats what Canna would tell you. Theyve said it before. Ive been growing for almost 30 years. And unless your dwc or some other recirculating water culture system... air pumps in tanks (especailly heavily organic additive and myco tanks) are asking for trouble. Even with recirculating water based systems I would just use a standard base nute and no additives except hydrogen peroxide when using air pumps. Your Canna line with the addys are fine sitting in a dtw tank for 5 to 7 days. If you size the tank right and have the feed times set right..you should be ready for a fresh tank and reset by then anyways. Good Luck.
I agree, I also clean my tank once a month, and yesterday was one of those days. No slime but the dark residue from the Golden Tree. Dumped the two rez's over my three compost bins, cleaned both containers and filters, refill and add all new nutes.
I just add to my lower rez every other day, recirculate a number of times during the day, then just before lights on I pH the solution and at their 9:15 feeding it's ready to go.
My rez runs in the 66 to 73 range and to date no probs. I don't really get cold enough to need a water heating gadget.
I am very near the point of having to add another cycle to my run. I am at two cycles at present, 9:15 PM and 4:45 AM, each run 2 min. So by adding a cycle they will run 9:15 PM (2 min), 1:30 AM (1 min), and 5:00 AM (two min). That schedule worked great last run so will set it up again.
I have had my issues with FG's before, the little bastard cost me a grow. I do a hand watering once a week at my 9:15 time and add Great White and SM90 at preventive rates. Started that after my loss and have not had issues since, fingers crossed!
Glad you got your shit cleaned up, hopefully smooth sailing from here.
 
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gr865

Well-Known Member
I have been running coco now for numerous runs, at first I would pack the coco into the pots/bags. but was told they should not be hard packed.
I have been backing off packing since then. On this run I barely packed them at all and although I have roots coming out the sides of my smart pots the solution seems to just pass right through the pots. I have started hand watering at the first cycle of the day instead of using the drip system. Doing multiple small amts which seems to saturate the pots better, not completely, still only damp on the lower third of the pots.
I use a DIY manifold and drip ring. The drip ring is just 1/4 inch rubber tubing with 3 1/4 inch tees emitting water without drippers, they plug to much. Here are a few pics.
20171116_115226 (4)_LI.jpg 20171108_140142 (2).jpg
In action 20171108_140640 (2).jpg

The system is driven by a ECO 1056, which is 1085 gallons/hour, with 9 foot of lift. These is no lift as my rez sits about 3 to 4 feet above my pots.
So, basically looking to better wetting of the coco.
Any suggestions?

GR
 
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Cx2H

Well-Known Member
I have been running coco now for numerous runs, at first I would pack the coco into the pots/bags. but was told they should not be hard packed.
I have been backing off packing since then. On this run I barely packed them at all and although I have roots coming out the sides of my smart pots the solution seems to just pass right through the pots. I have started hand watering at the first cycle of the day instead of using the drip system. Doing multiple small amts which seems to saturate the pots better, not completely, still only damp on the lower third of the pots.
I use a DIY manifold and drip ring. The drip ring is just 1/4 inch rubber tubing with 3 1/4 inch tees emitting water without drippers, they plug to much. Here are a few pics.
View attachment 4094188 View attachment 4094189
In action View attachment 4094190

The system is driven by a ECO 1056, which is 1085 gallons/hour, with 9 foot of lift. These is no lift as my rez sits about 3 to 4 feet above my pots.
So, basically looking to better wetting of the coco.
Any suggestions?

GR
Maybe something like this next run. I am pretty sure they are in a dollar tree somewhere. One guy here is using something just like that.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gilmour-306UPC-Poly-Ring-Spot-Sprinkler/21796952
Or
FloraFlex - FloraCap (8" [3 Pack]) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JTL06CW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_q23LAbNV99Q1G
 

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
My coco run I was really excited to use fabric pots and I read so many good things about it but the more coco grows I lookat I notice watering issues as they get older.

So I just figured, fuckit if this is supposed to be hydro I'm going for it so I went plastic square pots and straight coco.

I have a 1/4 line with a tee at the end.

16 plants

396gph eco pump

I water for a minute, Just befor lights on.

And then for another minute , about three hours befor lights out.

I find my coco is alwase damp right to the top and I do also try to do a hand watering every week so remoisten the corners, and when a pot is already wet it takes the water so much easier.

People say not to over water coco but I'm thinking it's best to keep these soaked. With no perlite and no fabric pots.

My 2c
 
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