The horror of global warming!

ricky1lung · Jun 16, 2013

ginjawarrior said:
hysterical special pleading

magnetic? what "new tech" are you talking about?

solar and wind needs an astronomically huge amount of investment to get even close to providing just the "baseload"

"New" as in under developed techs (solar, wind etc).

The investment whether astronomical or not is exactly what Im saying needs to happen.
Either spend the money to advance or carry on with the status quo and allow the current
problems to progress.

Magnetic, as in further developing and using the tech more often for things like transportation, bullet trains etc will
help reduce traffic loads.

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

cannabineer said:
Problem 1: why posit a very unfavorable 6:5 ratio when it could well be 20:1 or higher?

as you said

The number of times that a gun or the credible threat of one averted a situation is impossible to count/tabulate

care to say why 5:6 is more unfavorable or less valid than 20:1?

Problem 2: Many many violent crimes aren't nice neat aseptic robberies where the victim emerges unscathed or with a "black eye". I would rather not be the victim of blade or power-tool violence.*

Click to expand...

blade wounds are a small proportion of "violent crime" gunshot wounds on the other hand...

Gun murders in the USA in 2010 totaled just over 8000.
Now instances where possession of a gun or credible threat of its possession led to a deterrence event are impossible to tabulate, with estimates running from one hundred thousand to 2.5 million instances per annum. It's a bit like rape stats: reported numbers are not gonna track actual events, and sorting the real ones from the "I heard something and grabbed ol' Betsy" is a thankless task.
Even so, it's an easy mark to fob off with the sort of 6:5 disparagement you both are using. But is it wise or just? cn

you cant just cap it off at "murders" tho (at least not honestly) "accidents" "wounding" even "suicides" are all costs against guns are they not?

Doer · Jun 16, 2013

ginjawarrior said:
i always thought americans were supposed to be "tough guys" not that they were so petrified about getting into a tussle

Mother Jones type people are not tough guys so don't tar with a broad bush. Most of us are tough enough as you can see.

Now hideously gut slashed or gut shot? I take gut shot any day.

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
Mother Jones type people are not tough guys so don't tar with a broad bush. Most of us are tough enough as you can see.

Now hideously gut slashed or gut shot? I take gut shot any day.

i wasnt talking about the "mother jones" type

lol and now the debate is either carry a gun or be "hideously disembowelled"?

gotta love that hyperbole

Doer · Jun 16, 2013

blade wounds are a small proportion of "violent crime" gunshot wounds on the other hand...

No. I've looked it for us before when this lie came up.

In this world mass murder is done by taking a machette or a cleaver or a hacking sword and go among a crowd.

It is referred to as Rampage Killing. And guns are not the main tool for this, and never have been. We are transition to a clearer kill, but not more people. !2K only, gun murders. We murder each other. And so does everyone else.

USA - Homicide
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.3

World murder and mostly blades
Rate #

Honduras	91.6	7,104	Americas	Central America
El Salvador	69.2	4,308	Americas	Central America
Ivory Coast	56.9	10,801	Africa	Western Africa
Venezuela	45.1	13,080	Americas	South America
Belize	41.4	129	Americas	Central America
Jamaica	40.9	1,125	Americas	Caribbean
U.S. Virgin Islands	39.2	43	Americas	Caribbean
Guatemala	38.5	5,681	Americas	Central America
Saint Kitts and Nevis	38.2	20	Americas	Caribbean
Zambia	38.0	4,710	Africa	Eastern Africa
Uganda	36.3	11,373	Africa	Eastern Africa
Malawi	36.0	5,039	Africa	Eastern Africa
Lesotho	35.2	764	Africa	Southern Africa
Trinidad and Tobago	35.2	472	Americas	Caribbean
South Africa	31.8	15,940	Africa	Southern Africa
Colombia	31.4	14,746+	Americas	South America
Congo	30.8	1,180	Africa	Middle Africa
Central African Republic	29.3	1,240	Africa	Middle Africa
Bahamas	27.4	94	Americas	Caribbean
Puerto Rico	26.2	983	Americas	Caribbean
Ethiopia	25.5	20,239	Africa	Eastern Africa
Saint Lucia	25.2	44	Americas	Caribbean
Dominican Republic	25.0	2,513	Americas	Caribbean
Tanzania	24.5	10,357	Africa	Eastern Africa
Sudan	24.2	10,028++	Africa	Northern Africa
Mexico	23.7	27,199+	Americas	Northern America

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
blade wounds are a small proportion of "violent crime" gunshot wounds on the other hand...

No. I've looked it for us before when this lie came up.

In this world mass murder is done by taking a machette or a cleaver or a hacking sword and go among a crowd.

It is referred to as Rampage Killing. And guns are not the main tool for this, and never have been. We are transition to a clearer kill, but not more people. !2K only, gun murders. We murder each other. And so does everyone else.

USA - Homicide
Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.3

World murder and mostly blades

Honduras 91.6 7,104 Americas Central America

El Salvador 69.2 4,308 Americas Central America

Ivory Coast 56.9 10,801 Africa Western Africa

Venezuela 45.1 13,080 Americas South America

Belize 41.4 129 Americas Central America

Jamaica 40.9 1,125 Americas Caribbean

U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2 43 Americas Caribbean

Guatemala 38.5 5,681 Americas Central America

Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 20 Americas Caribbean

Zambia 38.0 4,710 Africa Eastern Africa

Uganda 36.3 11,373 Africa Eastern Africa

Malawi 36.0 5,039 Africa Eastern Africa

Lesotho 35.2 764 Africa Southern Africa

Trinidad and Tobago 35.2 472 Americas Caribbean

South Africa 31.8 15,940 Africa Southern Africa

Colombia 31.4 14,746+ Americas South America

Congo 30.8 1,180 Africa Middle Africa

Central African Republic 29.3 1,240 Africa Middle Africa

Bahamas 27.4 94 Americas Caribbean

Puerto Rico 26.2 983 Americas Caribbean

Ethiopia 25.5 20,239 Africa Eastern Africa

Saint Lucia 25.2 44 Americas Caribbean

Dominican Republic 25.0 2,513 Americas Caribbean

Tanzania 24.5 10,357 Africa Eastern Africa

Sudan 24.2 10,028++ Africa Northern Africa

Mexico 23.7 27,199+ Americas Northern America

sorry i thought we were comparing the USA with the more civilized european union i now see that comparison was unjust

in a century or 2 when you guys are comparable with us europeans come back to me for this discussion.....

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

ricky1lung said:
"New" as in under developed techs (solar, wind etc).

The investment whether astronomical or not is exactly what Im saying needs to happen.
Either spend the money to advance or carry on with the status quo and allow the current
problems to progress.

you'l spend more on wind and solar and get an inferior product that will need an overhaul of entire energy grid (including building storage for power)

its a nice idea but solar and wind arent up to providing baseload

hand waving and shrieking that nuclear is just too dangerous is compleatly ignoring reality

Magnetic, as in further developing and using the tech more often for things like transportation, bullet trains etc will
help reduce traffic loads.

to run maglev trains your going to need to have a solid baseload production capacity even the tiniest fluctuations could hurt alot

It was 3 a.m. on a Wednesday when the machines suddenly ground to a halt at Hydro Aluminium in Hamburg. The rolling mill's highly sensitive monitor stopped production so abruptly that the aluminum belts snagged. They hit the machines and destroyed a piece of the mill. The reason: The voltage off the electricity grid weakened for just a millisecond.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/instability-in-power-grid-comes-at-high-cost-for-german-industry-a-850419.html

Doer · Jun 16, 2013

Well, wrong again,.

This is the best it gets. The plight of the Liberal is they are doomed to only think as a Western European.

Switzerland	0.7	52	Europe	Western Europe
Austria	0.6	56	Europe	Western Europe
Bahrain	0.6	6	Asia	Western Asia
Guam	0.6	1	Oceania	Micronesia
Norway	0.6	29	Europe	Northern Europe
Brunei	0.5	2	Asia	South-Eastern Asia
French Polynesia	0.4	1	Oceania	Polynesia
Japan	0.4	506	Asia	Eastern Asia
Iceland	0.3	1	Europe	Northern Europe
Singapore	0.3	16	Asia	South-Eastern Asia
Hong Kong	0.2	17	Asia	Eastern Asia
Monaco	0.0	0	Europe	Western Europe
Palau	0.0	0	Oceania	Micronesia

Commonwealth compares

United Kingdom	1.2	722	Europe	Northern Europe
France	1.1	682	Europe	Western Europe
Netherlands	1.1	179	Europe	Western Europe
Poland	1.1	436	Europe	Eastern Europe
Samoa	1.1	2	Oceania	Polynesia
Tunisia	1.1	117	Africa	Northern Africa
Australia	1.0	229	Oceania	Australasia
Bhutan	1.0	7	Asia	Southern Asia
China	1.0	13,410	Asia	Eastern Asia
Malta	1.0	4	Europe	Southern Europe
Saudi Arabia	1.0	265+	Asia	Western Asia

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
Well, wrong again,.

This is the best it gets.

Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe

Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe

Bahrain 0.6 6 Asia Western Asia

Guam 0.6 1 Oceania Micronesia

Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe

Brunei 0.5 2 Asia South-Eastern Asia

French Polynesia 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia

Japan 0.4 506 Asia Eastern Asia

Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe

Singapore 0.3 16 Asia South-Eastern Asia

Hong Kong 0.2 17 Asia Eastern Asia

Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe

Palau 0.0 0 Oceania Micronesia

Commonwealth compares

United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe

France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe

Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe

Poland 1.1 436 Europe Eastern Europe

Samoa 1.1 2 Oceania Polynesia

Tunisia 1.1 117 Africa Northern Africa

Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia

Bhutan 1.0 7 Asia Southern Asia

China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia

Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe

Saudi Arabia 1.0 265+ Asia Western Asia

what part of that shows im lying when i said "knife crime is small proportion of violent crime"?

Doer · Jun 16, 2013

ginjawarrior said:
what part of that shows im lying when i said "knife crime is small proportion of violent crime"?

When you move your fingers. ( I can't see your lips)

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
When you move your fingers.

you can use your words better than that big boy

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
When you move your fingers. ( I can't see your lips)

According to the 2011/12 Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW), knives were the most common types of weapons used in violent incidents (7%). Hitting implements[SUP]2[/SUP] were used in 5% of incidents, and glasses or bottles in 4%. In total, weapons were used in about one in five (22%) incidents of violent crime in the 2011/12 CSEW ( Nature of crime Table 7.8 (451 Kb Excel sheet) ). Nature of crime Table 7.9 (451 Kb Excel sheet) shows that the use of weapons, as a whole, has shown no trend since the 1996 CSEW.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime/stb-focus-on--violent-crime-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html#tab-Types-of-violence--offences-involving-knives-and-sharp-instruments

In 2010, more than 105 000 US citizens were injured or killed in firearm-related incidents

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61225-8/fulltext?elsca1=ETOC-LANCET&elsca2=email&elsca3=E24A35F

guns add up to more than "

!2K only, gun murders."

ricky1lung · Jun 16, 2013

ginjawarrior said:
you'l spend more on wind and solar and get an inferior product that will need an overhaul of entire energy grid (including building storage for power)

its a nice idea but solar and wind arent up to providing baseload

hand waving and shrieking that nuclear is just too dangerous is compleatly ignoring reality

to run maglev trains your going to need to have a solid baseload production capacity even the tiniest fluctuations could hurt alot

[/FONT][/COLOR]
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/instability-in-power-grid-comes-at-high-cost-for-german-industry-a-850419.html

Of course maglev trains need power. They are a way to start using cleaner sources
for transportation rather than fossil fuels.

Yes the whole system needs an overhaul but it cant all be done at once, the whole system is
far too complex because it relies heavily if not exclusively upon fossil fuels in certain aspects of each
part of the equation.

There has been an enormous investment in the current energy solutions and there still remains to
be every year. There should be more investment into clean energy to move forward but there is such
a strangle hold on the current setup that the investments in new tech are not happening the way they are needed.

If there was more investment into research and production, solar and wind could be enough to provide a base.
We are still talking about global warming right?

Doer · Jun 16, 2013

ricky1lung said:
Of course maglev trains need power. They are a way to start using cleaner sources
for transportation rather than fossil fuels.

Yes the whole system needs an overhaul but it cant all be done at once, the whole system is
far too complex because it relies heavily if not exclusively upon fossil fuels in certain aspects of each
part of the equation.

There has been an enormous investment in the current energy solutions and there still remains to
be every year. There should be more investment into clean energy to move forward but there is such
a strangle hold on the current setup that the investments in new tech are not happening the way they are needed.

If there was more investment into research and production, solar and wind could be enough to provide a base.
We are still talking about global warming right?

Clean is not the issue. It is energy density. Only fossil fuels can run this world, at this time, and there is nothing on the horizon except dirty, very dirty deadly and long term danger of fission.

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

ricky1lung said:
Of course maglev trains need power. They are a way to start using cleaner sources
for transportation rather than fossil fuels.

Yes the whole system needs an overhaul but it cant all be done at once, the whole system is
far too complex because it relies heavily if not exclusively upon fossil fuels in certain aspects of each
part of the equation.

There has been an enormous investment in the current energy solutions and there still remains to
be every year. There should be more investment into clean energy to move forward but there is such
a strangle hold on the current setup that the investments in new tech are not happening the way they are needed.

If there was more investment into research and production, solar and wind could be enough to provide a base.
We are still talking about global warming right?

yes we are talking about global warming which is why i want to pull my hair out at suggestions of us using large amounts of fossil fuels to over build a solution that at the end wont do what we need it to

nuclear can be plugged straight into grid with minimal upgrading of the grid

the only objection able to be raised against it is "its scary"

to power the usa with "solar" your looking to cover arizona with nothing but panels, to get 50% of power from solar you'l need to cover half of it

then you need to think about the power lines to distribute it and the storage for night time or days and days over over cast

http://www.withouthotair.com/c30/page_231.shtml

that link goes into it in quite good depth

ricky1lung · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
Clean is not the issue. It is energy density. Only fossil fuels can run this world, at this time, and there is nothing on the horizon except dirty, very dirty deadly and long term danger of fission.

Clean is the issue when we are talking global warming.

I do agree though, " Only fossil fuels can run this world, at this time" but that does not need to remain so.
Im talking investing in the future so we can have sources that are not dirty or potentially devastating.

There was a time people believed heroin and asbestos were safe, as it turns out we as people researched and developed
better, safer things to use.

ginjawarrior · Jun 16, 2013

Doer said:
Clean is not the issue. It is energy density. Only fossil fuels can run this world, at this time, and there is nothing on the horizon except dirty, very dirty deadly and long term danger of fission.

what about if the halflife of nuclear waste was cut down to a few hundred years? you know a similar amount of time CO2 stays in atmoshpere except nuclear waste is contained rather than pumped out of chimneys?

i like how you stuck fission after "dirty and very dirty deadly" words of a neutralist those...

kelly4 · Jun 16, 2013

twostrokenut said:
I bet ice fishing rules. What else ya'll catch besides Walleyes? lol Do ya'll catch Walleyes? Only seen them on television. I've been Cat-fishing at night some lately.

Walleyes, northern pike, sunnies, crappies, perch...even catfish, on certain lakes connected to a river.

kelly4 · Jun 16, 2013

UncleBuck said:
we used to catch a lot of pike if i remember correctly.

we'd go early and set up about 10-15 holes, each baited with a flag. if the fish took the bait, the flag went up, and we'd go running.

other than that, it was pretty much sitting around in the cold and eating food.

Pike fishing with tip-ups is my favorite. Except, we sit in a heated fish house or truck and drink beer.

MuyLocoNC · Jun 16, 2013

ginjawarrior said:
"suicides" are all costs against guns are they not?

....NO....

The horror of global warming!

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