The "D" day pool, best guess as to when Trump is out

greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I boiled it down to its simplest by calling them for what they are, racist and misogynist white people. The article you posted was written to be read by a wider audience and so it called the Trump voter motivated by "the cultural anxieties of white male voters", I call them racist and misogynist, the article calls them "culturally anxious whites". The article was, I think, being kind to them in order get more people to read it.

In that article the author says that some who look at the data behind attitudes of the Trump voter suggest that the Democratic Party will only go so far in attracting the Trump voter if it focuses only on economic issues. That in order to attract the Trump voter, it would have to turn its back on the Democratic Party's base which includes minority and women who are motivated by their own issues of equal rights to men in this society. @Padawanbater2 and @ttystikk have said the same. This is in fact what Bernie Sanders is doing through his speech and actions against the base of the Democratic Party. I think its a losing strategy for Bernie and that he might do better if he ran as a Republican.

The article goes on to say that we've been here before with the Democratic Party when it shifted focus from states rights towards civil rights.

They might remember Hubert Humphrey, who told "States' Rights" Democrats at the 1948 party convention: "To those who say that this civil-rights program is an infringement on states' rights, I say this: The time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states' rights and to walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights."

In the short-term, Humphrey took a lot of heat for making that speech, which cost Democrats Southern votes. But in the long-run, he was on the right side of history.

We've been here before. Democrats did lose control of congress and the presidency in the '50's. Focusing on civil rights alienates "culturally anxious whites". "Culturally anxious whites" are why we lost control of government in 2016. But the tides of time are against them, not the Democratic party's base. That they are inept at governing is also why they will lose this fall. They won't be gone though. The next decade will be full of their rhetoric and they won't go away any time soon. I predict those anxious whites will become even more radicalized and in the next decade, threaten our Democracy in order to prevent social progress. The already are.
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The only issue I have with this is it totally overlooks the fact, while whites are in fact "anxious", they are no longer a majority and that this was not any kind of fair election. And even within the white voting block, they aren't all republicans. And even within the republican voting block, they aren't all trumptards.

Something else happened to tilt the tables. This wasn't a case of we lost a few key states by a few thousand votes and they won.

This was a case of voter fraud, voter disenfranchisement, and vote tampering. And yes, there is enough evidence right now to prove the russians actually changed vote totals in some states.

We no more lost that election than you lost $100k because someone got access to your bank funds and took everything you had in a way you can't get the bank to give it back. You don't say you lost your wallet when someone sticks a gun in your face and takes it.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Next month Trump's base will be out to cut Kelly's throat too, what a pathetic bunch.
Kelly thinks he's saving U.S. from disaster, calls Trump 'idiot,' say White House staffers
Some current and former officials said they expect Kelly to leave by July, and that Trump and Kelly seem to have tired of each other.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/kelly-thinks-he-s-saving-u-s-disaster-calls-trump-n868961

WASHINGTON — White House chief of staff John Kelly has eroded morale in the West Wing in recent months with comments to aides that include insulting the president's intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country, according to eight current and former White House officials.

The officials said Kelly portrays himself to Trump administration aides as the lone bulwark against catastrophe, curbing the erratic urges of a president who has a questionable grasp on policy issues and the functions of government. He has referred to Trump as "an idiot" multiple times to underscore his point, according to four officials who say they've witnessed the comments.

Three White House spokespeople said they don't believe it's accurate that Kelly called the president an "idiot," adding that none of them has ever heard him do that or otherwise use that word.

Officials said Kelly's public image as a retired four-star general instilling discipline on a chaotic White House and an impulsive president belies what they describe as the undisciplined and indiscreet approach he's employed as chief of staff. The private manner aides describe may shed new light on why Kelly now finds himself — just nine months into the job — grappling with diminished influence and a drumbeat of questions about how long he'll remain at the White House.
More...
 
greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Next month Trump's base will be out to cut Kelly's throat too, what a pathetic bunch.
Kelly thinks he's saving U.S. from disaster, calls Trump 'idiot,' say White House staffers
Some current and former officials said they expect Kelly to leave by July, and that Trump and Kelly seem to have tired of each other.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/kelly-thinks-he-s-saving-u-s-disaster-calls-trump-n868961

WASHINGTON — White House chief of staff John Kelly has eroded morale in the West Wing in recent months with comments to aides that include insulting the president's intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country, according to eight current and former White House officials.

The officials said Kelly portrays himself to Trump administration aides as the lone bulwark against catastrophe, curbing the erratic urges of a president who has a questionable grasp on policy issues and the functions of government. He has referred to Trump as "an idiot" multiple times to underscore his point, according to four officials who say they've witnessed the comments.

Three White House spokespeople said they don't believe it's accurate that Kelly called the president an "idiot," adding that none of them has ever heard him do that or otherwise use that word.

Officials said Kelly's public image as a retired four-star general instilling discipline on a chaotic White House and an impulsive president belies what they describe as the undisciplined and indiscreet approach he's employed as chief of staff. The private manner aides describe may shed new light on why Kelly now finds himself — just nine months into the job — grappling with diminished influence and a drumbeat of questions about how long he'll remain at the White House.
More...
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Next month? If they weren't so busy discrediting cohen, you would hear more about what they are saying now. You don't think these stories just appear out of nowhere, do you? Someone named jared is sticking a knife in kelly's back and the rabid right wing media is twisting it.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
The only issue I have with this is it totally overlooks the fact, while whites are in fact "anxious", they are no longer a majority and that this was not any kind of fair election. And even within the white voting block, they aren't all republicans. And even within the republican voting block, they aren't all trumptards.

Something else happened to tilt the tables. This wasn't a case of we lost a few key states by a few thousand votes and they won.

This was a case of voter fraud, voter disenfranchisement, and vote tampering. And yes, there is enough evidence right now to prove the russians actually changed vote totals in some states.

We no more lost that election than you lost $100k because someone got access to your bank funds and took everything you had in a way you can't get the bank to give it back. You don't say you lost your wallet when someone sticks a gun in your face and takes it.
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Only When Trump is impeached and the democrats gain control of the house at least, will these concerns be addressed. A congressional commission is only months away that that will go on for years (it should) and will look into such issues in great depth. There is far too much concern and it is too important an issue for it to be otherwise, I don't think the GOP and NRA will come out looking very good. America needs effective election finance laws and a re examination of the citizens united decision ASAP, this bullshit will make it happen quicker.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
The only issue I have with this is it totally overlooks the fact, while whites are in fact "anxious", they are no longer a majority and that this was not any kind of fair election. And even within the white voting block, they aren't all republicans. And even within the republican voting block, they aren't all trumptards.

Something else happened to tilt the tables. This wasn't a case of we lost a few key states by a few thousand votes and they won.

This was a case of voter fraud, voter disenfranchisement, and vote tampering. And yes, there is enough evidence right now to prove the russians actually changed vote totals in some states.

We no more lost that election than you lost $100k because someone got access to your bank funds and took everything you had in a way you can't get the bank to give it back. You don't say you lost your wallet when someone sticks a gun in your face and takes it.
Click to expand...
I'm just talking about why Trump voters chose him. Call it what you will. The PC term is "white male cultural anxiety". The people who voted for Trump did so because they were attracted to his racist and misogynistic rhetoric. Trump attracted "white male culturally anxious" voters like no other candidate has in decades. Not Romney, not Bush 1 or 2 drew the votes of white racists and misogynists like Trump did.

As you say, there are two sides to the tale of why Trump won. A lot of the shenanigans by Russia, Wikileaks, Comey and Trump's campaign suppressed the liberal vote for Clinton, not enhanced turnout for Trump. The certainly were a factor in to the result of Clinton losing the election through the EC.

The story immediately after the election was by pundits who said Trump won due to economic anxiety. Since then better studies have come out saying that Trump's voters are driven by "white male cultural anxiety" which, put in non-PC words translates to sexist racists. They won't be won over by economic policies or healthcare or education policies. I don't think Democrats should even try to win them over. They are a significant voting bloc but I'd rather the Democratic party focus on energizing the people who side with them and work to overcome the voter suppression tactics that helped turn this election for Republicans and not Democrats.

How about we do something to reverse their gerrymandering? That would be a start but it requires more Democrats in state houses.
 
Sour Wreck

Sour Wreck

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm just talking about why Trump voters chose him. Call it what you will. The PC term is "white male cultural anxiety". The people who voted for Trump did so because they were attracted to his racist and misogynistic rhetoric. Trump attracted "white male culturally anxious" voters like no other candidate has in decades. Not Romney, not Bush 1 or 2 drew the votes of white racists and misogynists like Trump did.

As you say, there are two sides to the tale of why Trump won. A lot of the shenanigans by Russia, Wikileaks, Comey and Trump's campaign suppressed the liberal vote for Clinton, not enhanced turnout for Trump. The certainly were a factor in to the result of Clinton losing the election through the EC.

The story immediately after the election was by pundits who said Trump won due to economic anxiety. Since then better studies have come out saying that Trump's voters are driven by "white male cultural anxiety" which, put in non-PC words translates to sexist racists. They won't be won over by economic policies or healthcare or education policies. I don't think Democrats should even try to win them over. They are a significant voting bloc but I'd rather the Democratic party focus on energizing the people who side with them and work to overcome the voter suppression tactics that helped turn this election for Republicans and not Democrats.

How about we do something to reverse their gerrymandering? That would be a start but it requires more Democrats in state houses.
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trump also got 81% of white evangelical votes. higher than any other republican this century. so there is a little more blame to go around.
 
greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
How about we do something to reverse their gerrymandering? That would be a start but it requires more Democrats in state houses.
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And this is where citizens united screwed us. It allowed the koch brothers to pour billions of dollars into low level state races. Everything from school boards to zoning. They built a feeder network of sneaky candidates who moved aggressively on largely sleepy low level offices, and then overwhelmed the state seats with well financed candidates.

All of it was astroturf. A lot of corruption was involved and more has resulted. It will be very hard to sand blast those walls clean. The stains are deep.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
There were several factors that lead to Trump, but Majority/minority anxiety fueled anti immigrant (not just undocumented or muslim) xenophobic sentiment was a major one. Russian interference on several levels and a democratic candidate with a lot of historic baggage who was the victim of a two front decade long disinformation war by the republicans and russians. Combine it with voter suppression, gerrymandering and assorted dirty tricks with a majority loss of nearly 3 million votes and razor thin margins in 3 states to take the electoral college, whose original purpose was to weed out Trumps! Now add in russian interference on several levels including dumping tens of millions of dollars into the GOP, treason by the POTUS and you've got the makings of a historic scandal of monumental proportions, one for the history books.
 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
And this is where citizens united screwed us. It allowed the koch brothers to pour billions of dollars into low level state races. Everything from school boards to zoning. They built a feeder network of sneaky candidates who moved aggressively on largely sleepy low level offices, and then overwhelmed the state seats with well financed candidates.

All of it was astroturf. A lot of corruption was involved and more has resulted. It will be very hard to sand blast those walls clean. The stains are deep.
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I just opened the envelope that contains my ballot for the upcoming elections in May. I've never seen so many people running for my districts seat on the county commission.

So there is that.
 
Sour Wreck

Sour Wreck

Well-Known Member
don't forget the losers that live in coal country and manufacturing country. they feel slighted that they lost their jobs and they live in such a depressed area they turn to oxycotin and voted for cheeto "loudmouth" jesus.

they are desperate and their jobs ain't coming back. move the fuck away from dumbfuckville...
 
Sour Wreck

Sour Wreck

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
something very much not Christian affected those people.
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fear, hate, a sense of loss of control and a sense of being oppressed.

they are not very good at independent thinking after they have been indoctrinated for decades. the leaders of white evangelicals IMO are not even christians, and yet evangelicals follow their lead like lemmings walking off a cliff.

can't fix stupid. and they all watch fox news. most listen to country music and think they are great patriots...

morons...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sour Wreck said:
don't forget the losers that live in coal country and manufacturing country. they feel slighted that they lost their jobs and they live in such a depressed area they turn to oxycotin and voted for cheeto "loudmouth" jesus.

they are desperate and their jobs ain't coming back. move the fuck away from dumbfuckville...
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This seems to be an area where Democrats should be able to turn in their favor. With the e-economy, people shouldn't have to leave their home towns in search for jobs. I know it can't happen right away but I'd like to see an initiative by Democrats to expand jobs into areas in decline. Otherwise we'll see vast tracts of the country occupied by drones with no stores or communities in sight. I personally don't want the population of the US squeezed into a few economically vibrant counties.
 
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