The Bonafide Dr/Pt Relationship- Pitfalls to Avoid in Certifications

His lawyer might have messed up as well, Its sounds the appeal court said more then once that


"Our review of this issue is for plain error affecting substantial rights because whether the Legislature’s definition of bona fide
physician-patient relationship was applicable was never raised in the trial court; therefore, it is
not preserved for appellate review."

His lawyer never argue the fact about bona fida relationship in the trial court

I don't think so. Dan is a very good attorney. It seems the trial court may have determined Tuttle was the controlling ruling. I've always maintained Tuttle isn't that important because it was so limited in scope (time frame).

Well this is getting over my head, I wish a few lawyers would post on this thread but I guess they got better stuff to do. Then again, last thing I want is some prosecuting attorney on here giving their opinion of the law. Its surprising how they can twist things around, good thing Michigan has some OK supreme court justices or all us MM users would be breaking Michigan zero tolerance law each time they drove a car

This case also shows that where a person lives and goes in the state with MM really matters. This happen in County of Berrien it looks like to me, if so, well I'm not as surprised. Some counties are worst then others.

I find it hard to believe that every county / court would go after every MM user that seen Dr. Vernon Proctor. Its where U are at, who U are and how much MM there is---all that comes into play, not just who ones doctor might be.

Well you have to know their game. And you have to have the background to beat them at it. One of the reasons I've never had a cert overturned and have never had to go back to the same county twice...lol Prosecutors don't like to lose cases.

Dr. Bob

If some weak old man is sitting inside his home in Detroit, using one gram of MM once a week and got his approval from that doctor who did not keep good records, well I feel that old man has little to worry about. Nobody is going after him IMO

Skylor said:

This case also shows that where a person lives and goes in the state with MM really matters. This happen in County of Berrien it looks like to me, if so, well I'm not as surprised. Some counties are worst then others.

I find it hard to believe that every county / court would go after every MM user that seen Dr. Vernon Proctor. Its where U are at, who U are and how much MM there is---all that comes into play, not just who ones doctor might be.

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No, they won't look for his patients, but they will apply this standard on any patient they get their hands on, it is a COA ruling and statewide after all. You just have to be aware of what the ruling says, anticipate how they will try to use it, and counter it. Your defense starts with your certification. Pick a good one. Know what is required and make sure they do it as you are ultimately responsible for your own safety.

Too much has been written on what to look for to justify going to a hotel room, doing a skype clinic, or renewing through the mail- just do it right with a reputable doc and you are ahead of the game. Then follow the rules and don't come to the attention of the police.

Dr. Bob

Skylor said:

If some weak old man is sitting inside his home in Detroit, using one gram of MM once a week and got his approval from that doctor who did not keep good records, well I feel that old man has little to worry about. Nobody is going after him IMO

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I would agree, but given the choice, do you want to see Proctor or someone like me for your cert, even if the risk of running afoul of the courts is low?

We have to remember the entire point of this post was to bring attention to the ruling so patients can protect themselves. Unfortunately some folks tried to disrupt it, but the ruling is reality and it is the way it will be until and if the SC overrules it. I strongly doubt that will happen though. Buyer beware.

Dr. Bob said:

Well you have to know their game. And you have to have the background to beat them at it. One of the reasons I've never had a cert overturned and have never had to go back to the same county twice...lol Prosecutors don't like to lose cases.

Dr. Bob

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They have challenge U in the past, UGH

Thats nice, really nice to hear..I'm glad I live in tri county area of SE Michigan, courts here seem to be cooler then some other parts of the state.

Location really matters when it comes to the law, its not fair but how it is

Why on earth would anyone talk about section 8 defenses that hadn't actually been involved in one? Yes, I've been challenged before, but they only try it once. I'm a recognized expert on the subject, and known for doing things right. But every now and then they try.... But mostly I am consulted by lawyers to help their clients that were certified elsewhere.

Dr. Bob said:

I would agree, but given the choice, do you want to see Proctor or someone like me for your cert, even if the risk of running afoul of the courts is low?

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Of course U

My doctor has--should have my Xrays from my last visit 6 months ago when he certified me. I even called up there when I got home and his staff said that they hang on to them in my medical file. Well one side of my hip has lately been very noticeable. My primary doctor said an Xray can tell if its arthritis, well I plan on getting some this week and then having my MM doctor compare them to my xrays 6 months ago--if they can't find my old Xrays, its goodbye and I'm not paying no $50 either.

But the place seems pretty good, its out in Troy Michigan. Its seems pretty professional

Kumar at Greenlite?
He is good, and that is an affiliated clinic of ours. We refer folks there as we don't have any in SE Michigan.

Dr Lang over at Greenlite

I liked the guy, didn't seem very friendly at first but then he seem to have his act together, Nobody could put him down on the witness stand , IMO

Some doctors seem very friendly but sometimes one can be too nice and easy going. I want a doctor who can stand on his own feet without any help so to say.

Dr. Bob said:

BTW, I'm going to put you on ignore until you learn to properly address me. I have told you I find 'pot doc' offensive. If anyone here feels one of your questions is important enough to answer, they can ask it.

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All of my questions were purposeful and thought out, all of his answers and refusals telling. Most of us cannot afford his buddies 30k lawyer fee trial with his 3k expert witness fee on top, so he demeans us and laughs at our predicaments. This clown actually thinks we're the joke in this cert mill marketing scheme of his ...

He might be bad but there are worst out there. Some law firms are much worst, they make tons-tons of money yet have just so-so lawyers working for them, They just have the big bucks to run lots of TV ads and the cases pour in. The ones that say they fight for U are the ones that always want to settle out of court. They really don't care if U could have gotten more $, they just want to reach a quick settlement and move on to another case. Yet they go on TV and claim they get U the most money every time.

I'm more used to seeing a few jerks make tons of money here in SE Michigan, it sucks, as the years go by, they become richer and richer and the more ads U see on TV for them.

Here's the rub, he's selling more than just certs here.

Dr. Bob said:

We also do far more than MMJ so the PMD doesn't even know for sure what they are seeing us for unless the patient tells them.

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This clown is not qualified to either diagnose nor treat MMJ qualifying medical conditions such as cancer or PTSD, nor does the law intend for such no matter how much you parse and bastardize it. Cert clinics are intended to be nothing more than part of the state's MMMP licencing process, or the documentation behind your card, not your actual healthcare. If these six month checkups from your "bonafide" (per LARA) pot doc are now actually required for compliance with the law, why the hell was the law just changed to extend renewals (visits) to two years?

Take this CoA opinion trying to be exploited here for what you will, but remember that years ago they also opined medibles and extracts were illegal regardless of patients best interests and MMMA. Take a look around at any dispensary across this state today and tell me how true that is in reality. Hell, Dr. Bob recommends oils to some of his patients ...



Does anyone believe an epileptic child should be forced to smoke their meds simply because of some CoA judge's opinion?

"If these six month checkups from your "bonafide" (per LARA) pot doc were actually required for compliance with the law, why the hell was the law just changed to extend renewals (visits) to two years?"

Thats a good question.

My drivers license is good for 4 years and I need not to visit the SOS until it expires every 4 years.

Skylor said:

"If these six month checkups from your "bonafide" (per LARA) pot doc were actually required for compliance with the law, why the hell was the law just changed to extend renewals (visits) to two years?"

Thats a good question.

My drivers license is good for 4 years and I need not to visit the SOS until it expires every 4 years.

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I believe that's every eight years, as you can renew by mail in between

But look how long the state has been issuing driver licenses. Like 80--90 years, something like that. I recall having to take a written test and a eye test every four years up to the 1990's to renew my driver license, then they got rid of the written test and eye test is up to the screener, the last time I went, the lady though she could tell just by looking at me how good my eyes were and skip the eye test for me to help speed the line up.

Likely at first, it was a big deal getting the OK to drive a car, then it got easier and easer to get a license, Today just about anybody can get a driver license at first and if they mess up while driving, then its harder to get one. Shoplifting also pulls your license, thats BS but thats how things are today

MM might turn out the same way, many years from now. As time goes by and if more states get MM, they might well allow out of state licenses. The people just entering medical school today are aware about MM, the doctors we have today almost all went to school when there was no such thing as MM, it was just a joke.

Wait until the doctors children take over their parents MM businesses, thats when big changes might finally take place. Might even wait until the grandchildren take over, change happens slowly

I would bitch more about Michigan MM rules expect least Michigan offers MM, many other states around us aren't close to allowing MM. If I want cheaper gasoline, I can just drive down to Ohio, if I want to legally buy marijuana without a card, its a long-long drive from Michigan.